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jd924

Flat left wrist and its position at impact

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How important is the flat left wrist? Of course it is extremely important but where is it considered acceptable? Is it considered acceptable if the golfer get his hands just inside the left thigh at impact? Or must it be delofted like hell ala Tiger Woods? I see some pros that do this specifically Manassero and Snedeker. Is it because their talent lets them get a way with it? Hope my questio n makes sense!

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Are you being rhetorical or do you actually have a question?  You seem to be answering your own questions.

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Well if his questions are answered, I'll add one to the list. A flat wrist can have a very specific definition: no angle between the top of the forearm and the top of the hand. My question is, must this flat wrist point directly at the target at impact? I think mine tends to be a little open. It's hard to tell from the Manassero clip above, but I think his may be a little bit open as well. Is it?

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If you're talking about Key #3, then it doesn't need to be truly "flat" - it's more about when the shaft lines up with the lead arm (or the lead shoulder). It should happen at or just after impact.

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Oh that's a great visual and mental image to explain it, thanks!

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Are you being rhetorical or do you actually have a question?  You seem to be answering your own questions.

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?

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Originally Posted by jd924

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?

The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

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Originally Posted by iacas

The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

Oh I understand that part. I'm working with my 5SK instructor and he wants my hands further ahead of the ball closer to my left  thigh. Its a work in progress, he's been fun to work with. So I basically need an inline impact, doesnt matter where the hands are in relation to my legs? I'll make sure to ask him.

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I believe that the lead wrist alignment at impact (measured as per Erik's post relative to shaft and lead shoulder) is to a large extent influenced by your hand and arm speed.

I've seen improvements in my impact alignments after doing swing speed drills with a pulled shaft.

As regards the margin of acceptability, I'd say that if you can manage your AoA (without excessive lateral head movement) then you're in good shape.

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The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

Do I really have to understand why its important? Or can I just be stupid? :-D

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Being stupid only forfeits the right to make a judgement on what's acceptable . So it's your choice.

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Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Do I really have to understand why its important? Or can I just be stupid?

Our requirements for earning the Key (any Key) include questions that should be answered satisfactorily. :)

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not that its important, but definitions are funny things.  For example "supination of the left wrist" described in Hogan's book is not that at all (according to some physical therapist). I don't remember what he called it, but he went into great detail of the muscles involved e.t.c.  at the same time, I think we all know thatHogan meant it as the opposite of pronation or wrist cock.

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Originally Posted by Hacker James

not that its important, but definitions are funny things.  For example "supination of the left wrist" described in Hogan's book is not that at all (according to some physical therapist). I don't remember what he called it, but he went into great detail of the muscles involved e.t.c.  at the same time, I think we all know thatHogan meant it as the opposite of pronation or wrist cock.

Yes, Hogan got these terms incorrect. Here's what he meant:

Hogan's definition of supination: palmar flexion (combined with supination and ulnar deviation)

Hogan's definition of pronation: flipping. dorsiflexion (combined with supination and ulnar deviation)

Actual definitions of these terms:

Supination: rolling the forearms over to where the palm side faces up

Pronation: rolling the forearms over to where the palm side faces down (just imagine the arm in the above photo doing the opposite)

Palmar flexion: flexing the wrist so the palm side becomes closer to the underside of the forearm. To make the angle between the palm side of the hand and the underside of the forearm less. Also known as a bowed or arched wrist position in golf. Indicative of someone delofting or shutting the club.

Dorsiflexion: When the back of the hand becomes closer to the back of the forearm. To make the angle between the back (dorsum) of the hand and the hairy side of your forearm less. Also known as a cupped wrist position in golf. Indicative of someone adding loft to the club, or opening the club. Also the wrist position of someone who flips at impact, if such a wrist condition is maintained to that point.

Ulnar deviation: in golf this is when the wrists have uncocked

Radial deviation: this is "wrist cock" in golf.

Radial deviation (or wrist cock) on the left. Ulnar deviation (or the wrist's uncocking) on the right

We like to be as clear and as accurate as possible here at the Sandtrap Vocabulary is important!

Cheers, mate!

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FLW is very important to have a good ball striking and prevents scooping or hitting it thin. TGM probably put most emphasis on FLW. Where Adam Scott used to have a little cupped wrist at set up, his LW are flatter these days. Most European Tour players like setting up with FLW. A bit mechanical and stiff to look at but it seems to be working for them.
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I think of the hands getting to the ball before the clubhead. Where you need to get your hands at impact will depend on ball position. If you play the ball off the inside of your lead foot then yes, your hands need to get to the lead leg prior to impact. Don't over think it.

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Originally Posted by jd924

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?

Your second sentence answered your first sentences question, which is why I saw it as rhetorical.  Then in following sentences, you did the same.  So I did not fully understand what you were asking.  Some folks on this forum do that a lot and are making statements instead of asking questions.  Then they go off and trash responses.  I wasn't sure if that was your intention.  Obviously it is not, so I apologize if you thought I was being cranky.

BTW, I am also a 5 Simple Key guy and I sometimes struggle with too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Ball flight becomes lower when this happens.  I would try not to focus too much on where the exact handle position is at impact because it is happening too fast to really be conscious of it.  Rather, focus on each key in order.  Key 1 and Key 2 will help Key 3 happen in the correct position.  1, 2 and 3 will help the path be better for Key 4.  I have no clue on 5 yet, as I struggle with that the most.

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Your second sentence answered your first sentences question, which is why I saw it as rhetorical.  Then in following sentences, you did the same.  So I did not fully understand what you were asking.  Some folks on this forum do that a lot and are making statements instead of asking questions.  Then they go off and trash responses.  I wasn't sure if that was your intention.  Obviously it is not, so I apologize if you thought I was being cranky.  BTW, I am also a 5 Simple Key guy and I sometimes struggle with too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Ball flight becomes lower when this happens.  I would try not to focus too much on where the exact handle position is at impact because it is happening too fast to really be conscious of it.  Rather, focus on each key in order.  Key 1 and Key 2 will help Key 3 happen in the correct position.  1, 2 and 3 will help the path be better for Key 4.  I have no clue on 5 yet, as I struggle with that the most.

The first two sentences was an intro bc i honestly had no idea how to ask the question. This thread pretty much answered it though, thanks

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