Vanity handicaps. AKA Screw Balls

[MS256]

Originally Posted by turtleback

I completely disagree with this.  Unless some maintains a handicap or at least does the calculations in the approved manner they don't have much of a clue as to what their handicap would really be.

Are you kidding? Not having a handicap doesn't mean we are too stupid to know what our scores are compared to the course rating, or at least know what we shoot compared to the players in our group that do have a handicap.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Are you kidding? Not having a handicap doesn't mean we are too stupid to know what our scores are compared to the course rating, or at least know what we shoot compared to the players in our group that do have a handicap.

Yeah, but there's slightly more to the formula than that.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Yeah, but there's slightly more to the formula than that.

Hence the "pretty good idea". You would have to be a moron to play very much golf and not have a pretty good idea what your handicap is.

Hell I have a pretty good idea what the handicap would be for every single person that plays in our Saturday game, and only a few of them have a handicap.

It's not rocket science.

[Golfingdad]

Hence the "pretty good idea". You would have to be a moron to play very much golf and not have a pretty good idea what your handicap is. Hell I have a pretty good idea what the handicap would be for every single person that plays in our Saturday game, and only a few of them have a handicap. It's not rocket science.

Completely agree. It's really flipping easy to make a pretty darn good guess. Further, it's also really flipping easy to know what your EXACT handicap would be with only 3/5 of a brain.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Most people that i hear guess at it are guessing at their average. But without doing the actual math and not the average of only the best scores. And without ESC. And without creating differentials. And without counting every score It would be a pretty good guess to eyeball it and actually get it close. But most people would be within range i bet.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Hence the "pretty good idea". You would have to be a moron to play very much golf and not have a pretty good idea what your handicap is. Hell I have a pretty good idea what the handicap would be for every single person that plays in our Saturday game, and only a few of them have a handicap. It's not rocket science.

I must be a pretty big idiot then. I've been playing golf for 15 years and always thought my handicap was around 18. Well, last year in September I registered for an official USGA Handicap and started tracking and submitting every single round I've played. My current handicap is 12.3. My scoring average over my last 50 rounds is +18.5. I was not fully aware of what a handicap was or how it was calculated. I guess I'm an idiot.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

Most people that i hear guess at it are guessing at their average. But without doing the actual math and not the average of only the best scores. And without ESC. And without creating differentials. And without counting every score

It would be a pretty good guess to eyeball it and actually get it close. But most people would be within range i bet.

For any mathematically challenged guessers out there:

If the scratch in your group beats the crap out of you every day and the 10 in your group never beats you, there's a really good chance you are somewhere in between.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I think most people would guess high - like you did because so many people think of it as an average. This assumes keeping a good score. The original post is about vanity handicaps - of which there are plenty.

[Nutter]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I must be a pretty big idiot then. I've been playing golf for 15 years and always thought my handicap was around 18. Well, last year in September I registered for an official USGA Handicap and started tracking and submitting every single round I've played. My current handicap is 12.3. My scoring average over my last 50 rounds is +18.5. I was not fully aware of what a handicap was or how it was calculated. I guess I'm an idiot.

Doesn't make you an idiot at all, but I would have to say I'm surprised that it took 15 years to get curious about the handicap system.  I would say most people have a good idea if they play regularly, but you might be one of the long term players that isn't somewhat OCD like the rest of us.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Originally Posted by MS256

For any mathematically challenged guessers out there:

If the scratch in your group beats the crap out of you every day and the 10 in your group never beats you, there's a really good chance you are somewhere in between.

Wow, there is a lot of anger about this.  Mathematically challenged, too stupid, rocket science, half a brain.  I'm plenty good at math - but still was surprised to see exactly what went into calculating a handicap once I learned about it.

And my original comment was about people who I've met on the course who just outright acted like they have a handicap - but they don't.  Had nothing to do with people on this site guessing to fill out the profile.  I sense a strange vibe about this.  Why did it get so personal so fast?

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Doesn't make you an idiot at all, but I would have to say I'm surprised that it took 15 years to get curious about the handicap system.  I would say most people have a good idea if they play regularly, but you might be one of the long term players that isn't somewhat OCD like the rest of us.

It wasn't until after I submitted my first few scores and realized my index was much lower than I thought it should be, before I started to look into exactly how it was calculated. Prior to that, I always assumed it was just an overall average of my scoring.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

Wow, there is a lot of anger about this.  Mathematically challenged, too stupid, rocket science, half a brain.  I'm plenty good at math - but still was surprised to see exactly what went into calculating a handicap once I learned about it.

And my original comment was about people who I've met on the course who just outright acted like they have a handicap - but they don't.  Had nothing to do with people on this site guessing to fill out the profile.  I sense a strange vibe about this.  Why did it get so personal so fast?

I'm not angry at all. There's nothing angry about saying mathematically challeged (I hate math myself) and it's really not rocket science to have an idea what our handicap would be (I don't remember "half a brain").

I had no clue how they computed handicaps for several years, and couldn't have cared less. I played every single day (except during duck season) with a guy that turned in all of his scores. At least 90% of the time either he would beat me by a few strokes or I would beat him by a few strokes. The other 10% one of us would have a blow up round and get smoked. Since I knew his handicap, and we were pretty much equal, I had a pretty good idea what mine would be. (Not that it mattered any). If you play against people with a handicap you know who you are likely to beat and who is likely to beat you, and who is an even match.

[NM Golf]

So you are basically talking about this guy:

I blurred the name, to protect the innocent. Check out the tournament scores compared to the casual rounds. He goes to a bunch of our state amateur competitions and embarrasses himself. I actually played with this guy one time. I recognized his name because I was the handicap chairman at the time. I asked him why he never played in any of our club tournaments. He told me that our club tournaments didn't have enough competition for him. I then proceeded to beat him by like 15 strokes. At the end of the round I told him we had plenty of competition for him, except he would need to get his handicap up. He is at best a 8-9 handicap.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

So you are basically talking about this guy:

I blurred the name, to protect the innocent. Check out the tournament scores compared to the casual rounds. He goes to a bunch of our state amateur competitions and embarrasses himself. I actually played with this guy one time. I recognized his name because I was the handicap chairman at the time. I asked him why he never played in any of our club tournaments. He told me that our club tournaments didn't have enough competition for him. I then proceeded to beat him by like 15 strokes. At the end of the round I told him we had plenty of competition for him, except he would need to get his handicap up. He is at best a 8-9 handicap.

That's funny. Golfers that I know of, personally, who break 70 and shoot a 68 do not post a 90... ever. I'm sure it is feasible and possible, but I honestly do not know of any so I can only assume it is rare based on who I know personally. The golfers that I know that break 70 and shoot in the high 60's will typically have a bad round in the high 70's or low 80's, but they're not shooting over 88 unless they are physically hurt or impaired.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by MS256

Are you kidding? Not having a handicap doesn't mean we are too stupid to know what our scores are compared to the course rating, or at least know what we shoot compared to the players in our group that do have a handicap.

I agree with Turtle.  And your second sentence illustrates this.

Originally Posted by MS256

You would have to be a moron to play very much golf and not have a pretty good idea what your handicap is.

It's not rocket science.

It may not be rocket science, but the average golfer that doesn't have a USGA membership is not likely to know how it's calculated nor take the time to calculate it.  It has nothing to do with being a moron.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Completely agree. It's really flipping easy to make a pretty darn good guess. Further, it's also really flipping easy to know what your EXACT handicap would be with only 3/5 of a brain.

Gotta disagree with you there on the "good guess" part.  And the 2nd sentence really just assumes that the person already knows how to calculate it.

Originally Posted by MS256

I had no clue how they computed handicaps for several years, and couldn't have cared less. I played every single day (except during duck season) with a guy that turned in all of his scores. At least 90% of the time either he would beat me by a few strokes or I would beat him by a few strokes. The other 10% one of us would have a blow up round and get smoked. Since I knew his handicap, and we were pretty much equal, I had a pretty good idea what mine would be. (Not that it mattered any). If you play against people with a handicap you know who you are likely to beat and who is likely to beat you, and who is an even match.

All you've done is illustrate the point that you ONLY knew what your handicap was because you played regularly with somebody who kept an established handicap, and your game was similar to his.  To test how innate knowing how to calculate a handicap is, one would have to have a single who is unfamiliar with it go out and play 20 rounds and then guess their handicap.

[JonMA1]

For some reason, golf is just different from other sports in this respect.

Maybe golf is a bit different because the term "mulligan" exists. It almost makes it seem legitimate. But there are many who will "bend" the rules in any compitition. Like the guy who always calls a foul in basketball when he misses a shot. I once played a pick-up game of tennis with someone I'd never met. He started calling me for foot fouls after he was down 2-0 and was having problems returning my serves. Who does that? It was a game of tennis that didn't mean a thing.

When it comes down bragging, nobody cares that much what someone else shoots in golf? I mean, for someone to carry a single-digit handicap is incredible - I'll never get there. But it's not that much less impressive for someone to be at 15. Golf is a really hard game for most of us. If you're shooting in the teens, you've put in some work. From my perspective, there's no need to embellish.

Originally Posted by turtleback

I completely disagree with this.  Unless some maintains a handicap or at least does the calculations in the approved manner they don't have much of a clue as to what their handicap would really be.

[Golfingdad]

Gotta disagree with you there on the "good guess" part.  And the 2nd sentence really just assumes that the person already knows how to calculate it.

true ... I guess I'm thinking of somebody like myself who never had an official usga handicap until the last year or so, but in the past I have gone online and learned the formula. It's very easy to estimate if you care enough to put in enough effort to at least understand the concept. If someone were simply to "calculate their differentials" by subtracting their scores from the rating and then rounding down, then average the best 10 of last 20 and round down again, you'd be a pinch high but probably within a stroke.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

All you've done is illustrate the point that you ONLY knew what your handicap was because you played regularly with somebody who kept an established handicap, and your game was similar to his.

SMH. That's the whole point. Doesn't everybody?

If you play golf with other people and you know what you shoot, and you know what they shoot, and you know what their handicaps are, it's not very hard to have a pretty good idea what it would be. If somebody can't get a decent idea from that and the course rating I don't know what else to say.

I don't know a single golfer that doesn't have enough of an idea to know who to play against straight up, and who they better pass on with a thanks but no thanks.