Vanity Capping Is Worse Than Sandbagging

[MS256]

Originally Posted by trackster

Why? You would rather have someone say that you are worse than you are?

You don't seem to grasp the fact that cheating someone out of their money or a fair chance to win is worse than putting yourself at a disadvantage from an inflated ego. I really and truly couldn't care less if somebody said I was worse than I am. What difference does that make? When we play my score is my score.

Why worry so much about people bragging on themselves or saying they are better than they are? I've seen those people all of my life in every sport I ever played. None of that crap matters at all once the game starts.

Sandbagging is more in line with corking a bat, putting extra air pressure in the kicking ball, or using a banned substance. It's getting an illegal advantage to try to win and rob the honest players of a fair shot.

[krupa]

Originally Posted by trackster

Why? You would rather have someone say that you are worse than you are?

There will always be someone who doesn't think you are as good as you are.  Sandbagging is about intentionally and dishonestly manipulating the system to gain an advantage over your opponents.  Your ego is so fragile that you'd rather be called dishonest?

.

[Big C]

Trackster, your passion is compelling, but it's also useless (said in my best Tom Cruise voice). I'm guessing you're a pretty young guy, and as you progress forward in your life, you're going to find out that people cheat, fib and lie to themselves in all sorts of silly little ways that would look ridiculous to an outsider. Whether it's about how much money they make, their sexual prowess, or how many strokes it actually took them to get a ball into a hole, the "vanity capping" behavior that has you so upset is just another example of the silly quirks of human nature exhibited every day.

You're clearly passionate about your game, and in 5 years when you have cut your handicap in half, your buddies are still going to be using their foot wedges, "forgetting" about their OB shots and taking 5 foot gimmes. Only at that point, I'm guessing you'll just laugh it off because you'll realize that they aren't trying to be malicious - rather, it's just that golf is a really hard game and most people don't want to admit to themselves (let alone to others) that they really aren't that good at something.

No one in this thread is going to be able to convince you of this point, but I'm guessing that when you look back in 5-10 years, you'll understand what everyone else is telling you here.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Big C

Trackster, your passion is compelling, but it's also useless (said in my best Tom Cruise voice). I'm guessing you're a pretty young guy, and as you progress forward in your life, you're going to find out that people cheat, fib and lie to themselves in all sorts of silly little ways that would look ridiculous to an outsider. Whether it's about how much money they make, their sexual prowess, or how many strokes it actually took them to get a ball into a hole, the "vanity capping" behavior that has you so upset is just another example of the silly quirks of human nature exhibited every day.

You're clearly passionate about your game, and in 5 years when you have cut your handicap in half, your buddies are still going to be using their foot wedges, "forgetting" about their OB shots and taking 5 foot gimmes. Only at that point, I'm guessing you'll just laugh it off because you'll realize that they aren't trying to be malicious - rather, it's just that golf is a really hard game and most people don't want to admit to themselves (let alone to others) that they really aren't that good at something.

No one in this thread is going to be able to convince you of this point, but I'm guessing that when you look back in 5-10 years, you'll understand what everyone else is telling you here.

If not, courses always seem to be in need of an abundance of grumpy rangers.

[Parker0065]

When it comes to tournament play when strokes are involved it's irrefutable that sandbagging is most damaging to the integrity of the game. Vanity handicappers are idiots that only hurt themselves and no one else!!!

Classic example:

A couple years ago I made it to the Championship match of our club's match play as a scratch golfer. My opponent was a 13 handicap and they took 80% of that so I had to give him 10 shots for the round. I played mediocre and shot even par on the front nine and I was 4 down at the turn. The match ended on #15 and my opponent was only +2 on the day.

Believe me, I understand that in this format the higher handicap has the advantage because in most cases par=birdie for them. At my club, historically the guy's in that 10-15 handicap range are the most dangerous because you have to give them sooooooo many strokes and they have the potential of having a great day and breaking 80. Funny though how I've struggled to beat the 10-15 handicap players yet I've faced the other scratch players at our club in this event and never lost.

Bottom line is who gives a crap about Vanity Handicappers, they are completely harmless! It's the Sandbaggers that do the real damage and degrade the game!!!

[meenman]

My only problem with vanity cappers is when they are in my regular group and I have to go through the uncomfortable act of coming up with excuses on why I will not play with them in team event tournaments at the club.

We have one in our group (had 2 until I taught one the rules.) I did get some sick pleasure out of beating him by 20 strokes in the last tourney (gross, not net,) even with his interpretation of the rules.

[rehmwa]

whole tirade deleted

[billchao]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

Honestly, if someone wants to accuse me of being a 26 instead of a 17, I'd gladly accept a money game as a 26.

I would, however, hate to be accused a cheater by sandbagging.

I guess my ego just doesn't need other people to know how good I am. If someone wants to accuse me of being worse than I know I am, I really don't care. I don't need to be validated by anyone other than myself.

I actually prefer if my opponent didn't realize what I was capable of. Maybe they'll let their guard down. Happened to me last time out with a friend: we had a friendly money game going, and I was down 2 holes with 2 left to play. He hit the GIR on the par 3 17th, I made the bunker. I got up and down for par, he three putt for bogey. On the par 5 18, I hit driver, 3 wood to reach the green in 2. Missed what could have been my first eagle by 2 inches. Tapped in for birdie. He thought he had me when I told him I was going for the green . Of course I could have easily bogey-bogeyed and lost the match, but he let his guard down and I happened to string a couple of good shots together.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by billchao

Honestly, if someone wants to accuse me of being a 26 instead of a 17, I'd gladly accept a money game as a 26.

I would, however, hate to be accused a cheater by sandbagging.

I guess my ego just doesn't need other people to know how good I am. If someone wants to accuse me of being worse than I know I am, I really don't care. I don't need to be validated by anyone other than myself.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

[billatthebar]

if a person is capable of being either of these things, then i wouldnt want to play with them at all - i dont want to play with the shredded wheat - the game is hard enough without having to constantly watch my playing partner to make sure they arent doing anything stupid - what other rules would they break if they can do these things?? foot wedge when i cant see them?? finding the ball they assumed was OB suddenly in play? testing the sand? any small rules ANYTHING....this is not the kind of person i want to play with and for that reason i say they are both as bad and unreliable as each other and i wouldnt want to play with either of them

[jetsknicks1]

I'd rather be called a sandbagger. The vanity guy just seems so douche.

and the sandbagger isn't? The only reason to sandbag is so a person can pick up a couple extra free stokes while playing in a tournament or for money. That seems more like a douche move to me.

[David in FL]

and the sandbagger isn't? The only reason to sandbag is so a person can pick up a couple extra free stokes while playing in a tournament or for money. That seems more like a douche move to me.

Another term would be "thief".....

[jetsknicks1]

Another term would be "thief".....

You are correct sir.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by trackster

Why? You would rather have someone say that you are worse than you are?

If you can't figure it out, there is no way anyone can explain it to you, though many have tried here.

[bplewis24]

I can understand a vanity capper.  We all have a tendency to want to believe we are better than we actually are sometimes.  That much is human nature.  The sandbagger goes against that by willingly pretending he is worse so that he can cheat folks.  The intent is to cheat people out of money.  I don't see how anybody can think the sandbagger isn't worse.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by Parker0065

When it comes to tournament play when strokes are involved it's irrefutable that sandbagging is most damaging to the integrity of the game. Vanity handicappers are idiots that only hurt themselves and no one else!!!

Classic example:

A couple years ago I made it to the Championship match of our club's match play as a scratch golfer. My opponent was a 13 handicap and they took 80% of that so I had to give him 10 shots for the round. I played mediocre and shot even par on the front nine and I was 4 down at the turn. The match ended on #15 and my opponent was only +2 on the day.

Believe me, I understand that in this format the higher handicap has the advantage because in most cases par=birdie for them. At my club, historically the guy's in that 10-15 handicap range are the most dangerous because you have to give them sooooooo many strokes and they have the potential of having a great day and breaking 80. Funny though how I've struggled to beat the 10-15 handicap players yet I've faced the other scratch players at our club in this event and never lost.

Bottom line is who gives a crap about Vanity Handicappers, they are completely harmless! It's the Sandbaggers that do the real damage and degrade the game!!!

So are you sure that this person was a sandbagger?  I shot an 84 playing off a 30 handicap a few years ago, high handicappers' scores fluctuate so much.  Do you people really know that people are sandbagging, or do you just assume that when a high capper plays well they are a sandbagger?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by trackster

So are you sure that this person was a sandbagger?  I shot an 84 playing off a 30 handicap a few years ago, high handicappers' scores fluctuate so much.  Do you people really know that people are sandbagging, or do you just assume that when a high capper plays well they are a sandbagger?

I really only know of 2 people I would accuse of being a sandbagger.  One of them, as I mentioned earlier, I have directly heard instruct people not to "post their good scores."  For me, it requires seeing a trend in their tournament scoring that goes against their handicap, with their handicap NEVER catching up to them.

[boil3rmak3r]

So are you sure that this person was a sandbagger?  I shot an 84 playing off a 30 handicap a few years ago, high handicappers' scores fluctuate so much.  Do you people really know that people are sandbagging, or do you just assume that when a high capper plays well they are a sandbagger?

If you posted that type of score during a tournament, then, YES, most would be be suspicious that you are a sandbagger. Do it once or twice more during the year and they'd all KNOW you're a sandbagger. Do a search online... Let's assume your 84 translates to a course handicap of 12. That would mean you shot a net 18 under par. According to online data, the odds of a 30 cap to shoot a net 10 under par under tournament conditions is 1,650:1. I haven't seen data that shows even lower net scores. If the odds are 1,650:1 for a net 10 under for a 30 cap, what would be the odds of 18 under par??? I'm guessing it would be more like 100,000+:1.