I "Tee'ed it forward" today... my thoughts >>---->

[jeramydavid]

Tee-ing forward is an interesting subject to me.

Around here I never hear tees being refered to by color or distance. Most courses have three or four sets, which most people refer to as "ladies, seniors, men's, and tournament tees" this bugs the hell out of me. I do my best to correct people who call them "ladies tees" to me it sounds sexist, and ignorant.

I have wanted to try the red tees for several reasons but have held off out of fear that buddy's and other golfers treat it as taboo and ridicule a man for teeing it forward.

(a little about me) I am a high handicapper. I usually hit around a 90 from the blue/white ("mens") I drive the ball 250yards. My iron play has always been my strength, my putting is usually my weakness.

So after playing the forward tees today here are my observations...

my usual playing partner is my wife, and as I suspected playing one set of tees sped us up hugely.  it is definately nice to only stop one place for tees. Next time you are playing a fun round with someone that usually plays the forward tees, teeing it up with them will definately save some time.

We had much more fun today because it put us on the same level. Having the same tee "legitimized" any shot or hole when she (my wife) out played me. She is just learning, and usually doesn't look at our playing competitively. Even on the par threes when she normally is 10 or 15 yards ahead, she wouldn't be interested in closest to the pin or anything like that. Somehow removing the different tees put us eye to eye, and even though she scores significantly higher than me, there were several times where things got competitive. There were a couple of times where she ribbed me for being farther. One hole she poured it on thick from the tee to the hole. We were shot for shot, and she sunk a bogey put and I was left with a 15 footer to match her. (i nailed it by the way) The competition  between us was something new and made whatever looks I got for playing the reds worth it.

Another observation, for those who think it would be "too easy" you may be surprised by how little it helps your scorecard. It will bring different hazards in to play, it will change lines, you still have to make putts (which is most of our battle right?), and it will make you rethink your strategy/course management.

At the very least you will enjoy the fresh look to your local course you play week after week.

I am glad i finally tried it, and I decided I will be teeing it forward whenever the round permits.

[wils5150]

Amen to that. Most golfers I see at my course play from the wrong tees for their abilities.

[MS256]

Most of the time in casual rounds that are just for fun I play from whatever tees the person I'm playing with hits from. Sometimes it puts me hitting from what should be the wrong tees for my ability but it's no big deal.

When my son is playing we always hit from the tips which is pushing my limits for a decent round on longer courses. There have been a few times on very long courses, when the conditions were making it play even longer, that I suggested we move up a tee and told him that even the pros wouldn't be playing entirely from the tips on a day like that.

When my wife and I are playing I often just hit from her tee but hit all irons off of the tee. Saves us from having to go to two different tee boxes and also gives me some extra practice with iron shots.

I disagree completely with the OP that it makes very much difference on the scorecard. There is a money game I play in occasionally at a nearby course that has quite a few seniors in it (all pretty good players) and normally a very even match for me where I have to play my best to have a chance. One day I happened to be the only person there that wasn't 60 years old which is the age they can move up to the "Seniors" tees. One of them suggested that I just play from up there also so we could all be together. I told him that wouldn't be fair, but several of them insisted, so I told them I wouldn't use my driver.

Well, long story short, it was a joke and they had no chance at all. They acted very surprised that it made that much difference but none of them were within 10 strokes of my score. It took all chances that I would ever miss a fairway out of the equation, and I was still much longer than they were with fairway woods and even sometimes with a three iron.

I refused to take their money and just told them to think twice before making that bet again.

[plum]

i see far too many people playing from the back tees that should be at least one tee forward if not two.

[HazardMagnet]

Excellent Post! I’ve been playing since 2006 and moved up front about 4 years ago, way before it was even suggested to be fashionable. I figured out that I just couldn't’t do this game from the "recommended staring locations".

I finally took lessons this past spring, and am just starting to dabble with the "Men’s" tee’s again. I broke 100 yesterday for the first time. I shot a 94 from the whites! I always have played "Ready Golf"; nobody waits on me out there. But I also played yesterday with just the guys’. I had the longest drive on two holes!

But as you said, my favorite partner is my Girlfriend of almost 5 years now. The only change I have made since my lessons is that I now hit off the "whites" on Par Three’s. On 4’s & 5’s, I’m right back up front with her, when we play together. Why waste the time moving the cart to satisfy some imaginary Masculine need?

My reasoning is simple. In Golf every thing moves, except the Hole. Okay, I can probably hit farther than she can from the same Tee’s, but we’re not out for "Cut Throat" competition. We’re spending time together, between our insanely busy schedules, and that’s all that counts.

~Tom B.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by jeramydavid

Tee-ing forward is an interesting subject to me.

Around here I never hear tees being refered to by color or distance. Most courses have three or four sets, which most people refer to as "ladies, seniors, men's, and tournament tees" this bugs the hell out of me. I do my best to correct people who call them "ladies tees" to me it sounds sexist, and ignorant.

I have wanted to try the red tees for several reasons but have held off out of fear that buddy's and other golfers treat it as taboo and ridicule a man for teeing it forward.

(a little about me) I am a high handicapper. I usually hit around a 90 from the blue/white ("mens") I drive the ball 250yards. My iron play has always been my strength, my putting is usually my weakness.

So after playing the forward tees today here are my observations...

my usual playing partner is my wife, and as I suspected playing one set of tees sped us up hugely.  it is definately nice to only stop one place for tees. Next time you are playing a fun round with someone that usually plays the forward tees, teeing it up with them will definately save some time.

We had much more fun today because it put us on the same level. Having the same tee "legitimized" any shot or hole when she (my wife) out played me. She is just learning, and usually doesn't look at our playing competitively. Even on the par threes when she normally is 10 or 15 yards ahead, she wouldn't be interested in closest to the pin or anything like that. Somehow removing the different tees put us eye to eye, and even though she scores significantly higher than me, there were several times where things got competitive. There were a couple of times where she ribbed me for being farther. One hole she poured it on thick from the tee to the hole. We were shot for shot, and she sunk a bogey put and I was left with a 15 footer to match her. (i nailed it by the way) The competition  between us was something new and made whatever looks I got for playing the reds worth it.

Another observation, for those who think it would be "too easy" you may be surprised by how little it helps your scorecard. It will bring different hazards in to play, it will change lines, you still have to make putts (which is most of our battle right?), and it will make you rethink your strategy/course management.

At the very least you will enjoy the fresh look to your local course you play week after week.

I am glad i finally tried it, and I decided I will be teeing it forward whenever the round permits.

Can't agree with the bolded part more.  You would have to shoot 7 under from the yellows at my home course to equal a par from the tips as far as differential goes.

[Wisguy]

If I ever joined a private club, I think I'd only be able to keep from getting board if I could play from all the different sets of tees.

[flintcreek6412]

My dad is 71 and just this year moved up to the green tees which is one set back from the ladies.  His scores dropped significantly because he was hitting irons into greens again.  He felt terrible moving up and I just looked at him and laughed and told him he should because he is old.  180yrd drives are tough from the middle tees.  He has gone from shooting high 80s low 90s to low 80s with a few high 70s in there.  He hasn't shot in the 70s in 20 years.  He is enjoying the game a lot more and has a lot more confidence again.  His HC only dropped a little since the rating from those tees is easier.

My course has 5 sets of tees.  Black, Blue, White, Gold and Silver.  On the score card it states the following HCs should play each tee.  <1 Black, 1-5 Blue, 6-10 White, 11-16 Gold, 16+ Silver.  Almost no one goes by that rule of thumb and they suffer in trouble all the time.  I see college kids trying the tips and score easily over 100.  It's a brutal tee on this Pete Dye course that plays 7500yrds and more like 8000 with a 20mph wind.  Only top NCAA players and better have any business on those tees.  I firmly believe if they would change some colors to Pink(lol.....who will brag about playing pink tees even if it is 7500yrds), Blue, Maroon, White(most casual golfers are used to playing white tees and will naturally gravitate there), Green.  I say Green for the shortest because a 36+HC won't feel as stigmatized playing a green tee.  I think Gold and Silver are awful colors to encourage people moving up because it sounds like old men and lady tees.

My parents course also has what they call a blended score card.  It mixed Blk/Maroon, Maroon/white, white/green.  Each blended mix has it's own course/slope rating too.  This way on some par 4s that have to carry a 180yrd drive from the whites it usually lets them move up to the greens.  It's another great way to shorten a course without getting too short.

I know that the whites on my course are 6400yrds which isn't long but when 4 of the par 4's are about 420yrds into the prevailing wind those can play brutally long.

I always encourage people to move up and have fun.  If you brag about playing 7000 plus yards with a 300yrd  erratic drive yet score in the high 90s because Pete Dye keeps you in sand and fescue all day you aren't impressing me at all.  If you shoot in the high 90's playing from the 6000yrd tees I commend your score acceptance of knowing your ability and playing the right tees.

Good topic.

[dave s]

I've been interested in this topic and have done some research since being 'snubbed' by a coworker a few years back who said, 'well, uh ... you know we play the back tees, so it might be too much for you.'  Truth is, HE isn't that good, either!

Anyway, there are plenty of formulas to help us easily identify course yardage and corresponding tee position based on how far you drive the ball on a regular basis.  Guess we can call this formula the "Driver x 28" to help us determine correct tee position.  Here's the very basic and easy to understand formula:

Examples:
Driving Distance		150	175	200	225	250	275
Course Distance		4200	4900	5600	6300	7000	7700

Questions regarding “Driver x 28”:

My average driving distance is 200-225 so I stick to tee positions where the course plays 5800-6200 yards.  Anything more than 6200 and par-4s can easily become 3-shot holes for me.

Lots of reading and good articles available through a google search on the term, 'play it forward.'

Great idea.  Wish everyone would sign up for this.

dave

[jeramydavid]

5-6k yards around here at most of the locoal courses around here and you are playing the blues or whites (mens). What kind of stroke/slope ratings are the courses youre playing? The three courses I usually rotate around here are 69/115 ish.

[trackster]

Course distance can be a bit misleading.  I could have a course that has nothing but par 4s that are 400 yards and a 230 yard hitter off the tee will have no problem playing a 7200 yard course.  Its the courses that are 7000 + that have 440+ yard par 4s that make it harder for people to play.

In my opinion I am not a fan of teeing it forward.  I play the tips at my home course and I was playing to a 10.8 last time I checked.  I shoot mid 80's, some people would say that I should move up, but its not as fun for me to play the middle or forward tees.  If you can break a 100 from the back tees then I think that your choice to play there should not be questioned.  If you average 5 a hole you will play to a 90.  If you are shooting 5's you will more than likely be playing at an efficient enough pace.  Its the people that are dropping 110+ from the tips that need to move up, however if you are shooting 110 moving up will not make you a sub 90s player.

[BuckeyeNut]

People just need to know their game and play to a desired yardage and CR.  Whether it's the back tees or not is irrelevant.  If the back tees are only 6300yds, it's still a pitch and putt course as far as I'm concerned.

I prefer to play from tees with a CR of 72 or higher and my comfort zone is 6500-6800yds if it's a new course to me.  If it's my home course, longer is OK.  My old home course was 7133yds and I regularly played the tips in the summer when the ball flies further, but I knew that course very well.   I scored about the same from the tips as I did from 1 set of tees forward.   My handicap dropped by nearly 2 strokes playing the tips because i was posting the same scores from tees with a higher CR.

My new home course is only 7059yds from the tips, but I have yet to play the tips.  I play 1 set of tees forward and the course thoroughly kicks my butt!!  The forward tees are 6633yds 73.2CR and 141slope....that's plenty enough!  I have no desire to play this course further back!!

[Old Timer]

Originally Posted by dave s

I've been interested in this topic and have done some research since being 'snubbed' by a coworker a few years back who said, 'well, uh ... you know we play the back tees, so it might be too much for you.'  Truth is, HE isn't that good, either!

Anyway, there are plenty of formulas to help us easily identify course yardage and corresponding tee position based on how far you drive the ball on a regular basis.  Guess we can call this formula the "Driver x 28" to help us determine correct tee position.  Here's the very basic and easy to understand formula:

Examples:

Driving Distance

150

175

200

225

250

275

Course Distance

4200

4900

5600

6300

7000

7700

Questions regarding “Driver x 28”:

My average driving distance is 200-225 so I stick to tee positions where the course plays 5800-6200 yards.  Anything more than 6200 and par-4s can easily become 3-shot holes for me.

Lots of reading and good articles available through a google search on the term, 'play it forward.'

Great idea.  Wish everyone would sign up for this.

dave

This is a very interesting observation.

I generally play from the "middle" tees and typically drive the ball 225 on the average but will reevaluate my own play based on this..

I think a lot of golfers are influenced by tv tournament play in that they do not consider themselves manly men unless they can hit from the same tees as the pro's.

I also suspect this attitude keeps up the sales of the Pro V1's and other must have golf gear.

[MS256]

Most people I know (including myself) don't take all conditions into account when deciding which tees to play from.

We get in the habit of playing either "the tips" or "the men's tees" and do so every time we show up at any course no matter what. Even the PGA takes conditions into account more than we do and they move tees for many holes up or back based on what they think the conditions are going to be that day. They rarely play any course at it's maximum yardage on every hole, especially in bad weather.

Some courses play much longer than the yardage and some play much shorter than the yardage to start with. Add enough wind, rain, and cold to the equation and playing from the tips, or even the men's tees can turn into a fool's play.

If a high percentage of the course yardage is on par threes and many of the par fours have forced lay ups a course can "play" quite long even if it's in the mid 6,000s. If there are short par threes, fast open fairways, few forced lay ups, and a high percentage of the yardage is on par fives some courses over 7,000 yards don't seem that long.

There have been many times after a round on a new course where I thought to myself that course wasn't that bad from the tips even though the total yardage was long, and many times I thought a course was going to be a piece of cake from the total yardage but it seemed like I constantly had a 3 iron in my hand into a green.

[TJBam]

Great post OP.  Playing up a tee box or two can inspire confidence and leave you with a much nicer experience than hitting the green in 3 on par 4's from the tips.

It's fun to play the senior tees sometimes to see how well you can do after playing the golds or tips for a while. :P

[saevel25]

I would do something with slope as well. Playing a 6000 yard course at 140 slope, is way different than playing a 6500 course at 125. So, be careful with it being driving distance.

Also, you can always mix tees. TPC does this, were they have 4 tee sets, and in between tips and middle, is a mix. Which puts it at 6600 yards or such. So if you want to challenge yourself, maybe play the par 3's up a bit if they are long, and maybe some long par 4's, but play everything else the same. No one says you have to play from one tee color designation. So, if a has a huge difference in tee boxes, like white at 5800 and blues at 6800, mix and match the tee sets.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Yeah, good post.  I play almost every weekend and almost always paired up with at least 1-2 people I don't know.  Rarely do I encounter men who want to play from less than the blues - and rarely do I play with anyone worthy of playing from the blues.  I asked the starter at my course what percentage of blue golfers are actually that good and he told me almost no one.  They have a recommendation chart - but it doesn't help much when people lie to themselves about their scores so much.

In the interest of time, I always play whichever tees they are playing (blues being my limit)

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackster

In my opinion I am not a fan of teeing it forward.  I play the tips at my home course and I was playing to a 10.8 last time I checked.  I shoot mid 80's, some people would say that I should move up, but its not as fun for me to play the middle or forward tees.  If you can break a 100 from the back tees then I think that your choice to play there should not be questioned.  If you average 5 a hole you will play to a 90.  If you are shooting 5's you will more than likely be playing at an efficient enough pace.  Its the people that are dropping 110+ from the tips that need to move up, however if you are shooting 110 moving up will not make you a sub 90s player.

I don't know if I can agree with the bold statement above.  I'd say a 99 has you out over your skis a little and you aren't quite ready for the backs.  I would think that a truer statement would be "If you can break 80 regularly from the whites, then it is time to move to the blues".  That might be a little tough, but I think a better statement.  If you can't break 90, tee it forward.  Probably enjoy the game a little more by having a little more success.  And I think the players behind you would enjoy it a little better too.

[RayG]

How many Muni type course offer REAL differences between tee boxes. At a few of my locals, the difference is less than 20 yards between "The tips" and the normal Men's (excuse me, the "whites") The reds are just tossed out in the fairway as a second thought. At one course they never HAD red tees until a few years ago. And if there is another set of tees, they are "Blue" and between the Blacks and the Whites. So a hole might be 390 from "tips", 385 from "blues" and 380 from the normal "Whites". Then the Reds are tossed out about 50-60 yards in front of that. No real incentive to move up, or move back. Because they move the markers around each week, you play from the whites one week that might have been the blues the week before, then some holes they bunch them together so all of the markers are in one place (usually a par 3). With no place to expand too, there won't be a changes to layouts to "Tiger proof" them either. As an example, yesterday, the "tips" on 17 (par 3) were set at 172 (GPS yardage to center), from the "blues" (normal tees), the yardage was 172.. only difference was they mowed a little patch out the rough behind the previous green to make the shot more over water than the normal tees being sort of across the corner of the water.