Opponent refused to putt in tournament play.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

It's a golf tournament...anyone that isn't him, is his opponent.

It's just that the rules can be quite different based on the form of play.  Under the rules, the term "opponent" is reserved for Match Play.  "Competitor" for stroke play.  When a question is asked, and one of these terms is used incorrectly, it can lead to a wrong answer.

Most golfers probably don't understand this distinction, that's why I asked in my first post.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

It's just that the rules can be quite different based on the form of play.  Under the rules, the term "opponent" is reserved for Match Play.  "Competitor" for stroke play.  When a question is asked, and one of these terms is used incorrectly, it can lead to a wrong answer.

The average golfer probably doesn't understand this distinction, that's why I asked in my first post.

Makes sense. I love match play, it changes strategy completely.

Glad this thread was posted though, I learned a new rule today...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJBam

If she is on the green, but 40 feet away.  And you are OFF the green, but only 10 feet from the pin, I believe you are still away being that you are off the green.

I was gonna say the same thing.

And who cares? Ready golf, just hit your ball.

Nope.  Away is away.  What terrain the ball lies on is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by trackster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Away means farther from the hole.

I'm not sure of that.  In Mario golf for the N64, if you are off the green and the other player is on the green, the person off the green is always away.  I've learned a lot of the rules of golf from that game.

Nvm, I googled it and I was wrong.

You should have played Links 2003 then (10 years old and I still play it).  They got most of the rules right.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Nope.  Away is away.  What terrain the ball lies on is irrelevant.

Yeah, after research, I realized I've been wrong all these years.

Whoops. lol

[RayG]

Before this gets turned into another thread on slow play... (which it will, they ALL do). Do NOT do this on your casual weekend rounds. Let everyone get up onto the putting surface before it gets out of hand. "No, you're away- take out the pin, no, leave the pin in, okay, take it out for me. Hold on, I'm still off, leave it back in..."

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Originally Posted by trackster

I'm not sure of that.  In Mario golf for the N64, if you are off the green and the other player is on the green, the person off the green is always away.  I've learned a lot of the rules of golf from that game.

Nvm, I googled it and I was wrong.

This is awesome. Gotta get this game so I can learn the correct rules, well most of them apparently.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

1) Why say she was your opponent?

2) She could have been penalised for 'undue delay' but not for 'playing out of turn'.

It's a golf tournament...anyone that isn't him, is his opponent.

No, they aren't.  See the Definitions.

Originally Posted by RayG

Before this gets turned into another thread on slow play... (which it will, they ALL do). Do NOT do this on your casual weekend rounds. Let everyone get up onto the putting surface before it gets out of hand. "No, you're away- take out the pin, no, leave the pin in, okay, take it out for me. Hold on, I'm still off, leave it back in..."

Please listen to Ray.  This is how we should all be playing unless it's a match, and even then unless it's some official competition, use your head.  My Men's Club played ready golf in tournament play.  There is no reason not to do the same as in casual golf, aside from following ALL of the rules instead of ignoring the ones you don't like.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by RayG

Before this gets turned into another thread on slow play... (which it will, they ALL do). Do NOT do this on your casual weekend rounds. Let everyone get up onto the putting surface before it gets out of hand. "No, you're away- take out the pin, no, leave the pin in, okay, take it out for me. Hold on, I'm still off, leave it back in..."

I agree.....unless someone really wants to go first and it's their turn under the rules.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Originally Posted by RayG

Before this gets turned into another thread on slow play... (which it will, they ALL do). Do NOT do this on your casual weekend rounds. Let everyone get up onto the putting surface before it gets out of hand. "No, you're away- take out the pin, no, leave the pin in, okay, take it out for me. Hold on, I'm still off, leave it back in..."

Well I think that depends on the circumstance. If you are off and are going to pull the flag then by all means you have the right to have someone else on the green go first. If you have to pull the flag and then put it back in at any time and I am waiting behind you then you better be ready to duck. But I would hope most people don't take it that serious. We gamble on skins, scores and birdies every round and aren't that serious.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No, they aren't.  See the Definitions.

No need, I know the definition, I'm just an ass.

[RayG]

I agree.....unless someone really wants to go first and it's their turn under the rules.

That's where the Ready Golf part comes in. I see too many groups or playing partners stand around after a flubbed chip. As an example- someone is 50ft away, but on the green. Someone has just thinned a chip shot across the green into a trap or something. The person on the green will stand around waiting for the guy to walk back to the cart or his bag to get the right club. he hits out of the trap and is 60 feet away. Now he's gone back for his putter and walks all the way across, etc... Once that guy has thinned his chip, I will putt if it isn't affecting the others or they are within a few feet. By now the other guy is ready to putt and we can move on. Besides being annoyed that he didn't take his putter with him in the first place, at least SOMETHING is getting done. In other situations of being "away", you have to give some people some slack. If I'm, say, within 10-12 feet, and I am ready to go- after someone really clanks a putt and is still 'away', I might just tell him to relax and set up for the next one while I putt. That is a terrible feeling when you feel you are being rushed because of a bad putt and that everyone is waiting on you. Let someone else go ahead of you if they're ready, and take your usual pre-putt routine to calm yourself down. As long it doesn't affect the line of your partners, no point in making everyone else wait around. But these are in casual rounds with no real consequence.

[phan52]

Away means farther away from the hole.

I remember an instance in the Solheim Cup when Annika Sorenstam chipped in from off the green and the Americans made her redo the shot because one of them was farther away, although on the green. She missed and the Americans won the hole, and the match. Bad sportsmanship, IMO, but OK by the rules.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

Bad sportsmanship, IMO, but OK by the rules.

The opposite is more true. It was bad sportsmanship by Annika to play out of turn and was outside the rules to play when she did.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

The opposite is more true. It was bad sportsmanship by Annika to play out of turn and was outside the rules to play when she did.

I doubt she deliberately played out of turn. My recollection is that it was pretty close. Plus, it's the old mistake everybody makes, that they just go when they are off the green.

I get in the argument all the time with people who have been playing club tournament golf for 30 years. They just refuse to putt if someone is off the green.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

I doubt she deliberately played out of turn. My recollection is that it was pretty close. Plus, it's the old mistake everybody makes, that they just go when they are off the green.

So? You're saying people who enforced the rules in a fairly serious competitive situation had "poor sportsmanship."

I couldn't disagree more. The rules are the rules. Annika broke them, and her opponents had the right to make her re-play the shot.

Originally Posted by phan52

I get in the argument all the time with people who have been playing club tournament golf for 30 years. They just refuse to putt if someone is off the green.

Shouldn't be much of an argument. If you're playing match play, show them the rules, then they can lose the hole for undue delay if they just want to stand there.

Or address it beforehand with the tournament committee so they can educate everyone.

I'd go with B.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

So? You're saying people who enforced the rules in a fairly serious competitive situation had "poor sportsmanship."

I couldn't disagree more. The rules are the rules. Annika broke them, and her opponents had the right to make her re-play the shot.

I was watching when it happened and, yes, it was poor sportsmanship.  It was close enough that the American player walked off the distance to be sure. I am fairly certain they would have let it go if Annika had left it ten feet or boned it over the green.

JMO.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by phan52

I doubt she deliberately played out of turn. My recollection is that it was pretty close. Plus, it's the old mistake everybody makes, that they just go when they are off the green.

I get in the argument all the time with people who have been playing club tournament golf for 30 years. They just refuse to putt if someone is off the green.

This actually happened to me last night, I was actually the 2nd closest to the pin but on the fringe and nobody would play their putt until I hit mine. They asked me if I wanted the pin in, I said no, pull it and let them putt. They said "no, you hit".... So I did.

[Rulesman]

Thank you Rulesman. She wasn't my "opponent" as that would be match play and this wasn't. I guess she was my "competitor"?

She was in fact a Fellow Competitor as she was playing in your group. Other players in the competition are simply Competitors. As you are new to the game may I suggest it would be worth getting familiar with the Definitions. It could be worth a couple of strokes a round. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/