What kinda play is acceptable for the tips?

[clearwaterms]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

For the life of me, I don't understand why people pick tees based solely on distance. From the USGA website:

Bogey Rating:

the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play. This rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer. It is based on yardage, effective playing length and other obstacles to the extent that affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. To figure out this number, other than from looking at this database, the bogey golfer should take the Slope Rating®, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, and 4.24 for women) and add that to the Course Rating. The result is a target score for the bogey golfer, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead for the particular set of tees. Example: 96.3- which predicts the bogey golfer's average of his ten best (out of twenty) scores would be approximately 96.3 from this particular set of tees.

This is awesome - can you help me work through this just so that I understand a little better?  What is the definition of a bogey golfer?  would that mean an 18 handicap?

How does that affect 9 hole rounds as well?  My most often played course's rating is listed below.  Does this mean a player from the whites should average 45?  I came up with that this way.  111/5.381=X x+35.1*2=90.82 / 2 = 45.414

My handicap is acording to OOBgolf is 17.9.  I consider myself a strive for 5's bogey golfer.  My average score over the last 10 rounds at the course is 45.7. (Lowest = 40, highest = 50, and mode is 46) I typically play the whites, and on the shorter par 4's, have started playing the blues.

Blue	35.9	114	3,404
White	35.1	111	3,253

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by clearwaterms

This is awesome - can you help me work through this just so that I understand a little better?  What is the definition of a bogey golfer?  would that mean an 18 handicap?

According to the USGA, a bogey golfer is: " A male bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap™ of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and can reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level."

Originally Posted by clearwaterms

How does that affect 9 hole rounds as well?  My most often played course's rating is listed below.  Does this mean a player from the whites should average 45?  I came up with that this way.  111/5.381=X x+35.1*2=90.82 / 2 = 45.414

My handicap is acording to OOBgolf is 17.9.  I consider myself a strive for 5's bogey golfer.  My average score over the last 10 rounds at the course is 45.7. (Lowest = 40, highest = 50, and mode is 46) I typically play the whites, and on the shorter par 4's, have started playing the blues.

Blue

35.9

114

3,404

White

35.1

111

3,253

Your calculation is a bit roundabout (you're multiplying by 2, then dividing by 2), but it's correct. Honestly, there's very little difference between those two sets of tees, so you probably wouldn't see a huge difference in average scores between the two.

[Mr. Desmond]

Fast play... is acceptable.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

According to the USGA, a bogey golfer is: "A male bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap™ of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and can reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level."

Don't put me into your "categories."  You should never assume my 6 iron is going to "reach" the hole.

[Slice of Life]

28* your good drive?

So if you're a decent driver and blasting them out 260, you should be playing 7,300 yards?

Seems long for 260...that's PGA course distance...PGA recommends about 800 yards less than that.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

28* your good drive?

So if you're a decent driver and blasting them out 260, you should be playing 7,300 yards?

Seems long for 260...that's PGA course distance...PGA recommends about 800 yards less than that.

The one I've seen a few times on here is 5 iron times 36.  That one is a little more conservative (at least for me) but still seems inflated.

But to reiterate, doesn't matter how far you hit it ... if you play fast and have fun, you can play whatever tees you like.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

The one I've seen a few times on here is 5 iron times 36.  That one is a little more conservative (at least for me) but still seems inflated.

But to reiterate, doesn't matter how far you hit it ... if you play fast and have fun, you can play whatever tees you like.

Yep, I tend to agree with the bolded part.

Yeah, if I did the 5 iron average one, I'd be around 6800 yards...much more realistic. Still long for me though...

[460CompMark]

if you tend to jack up your drives, then maybe you should re-think playing from the tips.  IMHO, tips should only be played by +7 and under true handicappers.

[Parker0065]

I have to say that the idea that anyone can play from the back tees as long as they play fast is completely incorrect. I have the perfect example that happened last year when my normal threesome of myself, my son, and my father in law were paired with a single. As a threesome I played from the blue(back) tees, my 15 year old son was on the white(regular mens) tees and my 70 year old father in law was on the gold(senior) tees. The single that was grouped with us was somewhere in his late 50's early 60's age range and as we warmed up appeared to be about a 15-20 handicap.

As we get to the first tee I fully expected this gentleman to approach the white or gold tees but he marches back with me on the blues and states he would like to play back here with me. I did everything in my power to convince him that he did not have to do that and that he was more than welcome to move up with my son or father in law(where he really belonged) but he would have none of that. We tee off and he hits a beautiful well struck 180 yard power fade off the first tee and I'm thinking "oh dear God, please give me the patience I'm going to need for this round"!

All day long this guy was 80-100 yards behind where both mine, my son's, and my father in laws drives were. This created a major increase in pace of play because normally(because the three of us play from the correct tees) our drives are all within 15-20 yards of each other and we can all move together and prepare to hit our next shot while the shortest driver play theirs. With this guy that was not the case because we would all have to halt our advance to our drives and wait for him to hit his second shot that was 100 yards short of out drives. Of course he couldn't reach the green from his second shot so after we hit our approach shots to the green we would again have to halt our progress to the green to wait for him to hit his 3rd full shot on par4's/ 4th full shot on par5's.

The three of us normally play 18 holes in 3:45 - 3:50, and if we add a 4th player that plays from the correct tees that goes up to around 4:10 - 4:15. This guy was not a slow player at all and tried his best to keep up but because he chose the wrong tees and had to hit an extra full shot on every hole that wasn't a par3, he added over 1 hour to our round!

There's no doubt that choosing the incorrect tee box slows down play exponentially regadless of how fast a player is. In my situation it was the worst possible case because the guy was out of position distance wise to the rest of us all day long forcing us to have to wait on him to hit his additional shots to reach the green. If you want to play as fast as possible then everyone in the group needs to play the tee box that will put them all close to each other after a "Normal" drive!

[trackster]

Originally Posted by Parker0065

I have to say that the idea that anyone can play from the back tees as long as they play fast is completely incorrect, I have the perfect example that happened last year when my normal threesome of myself, my son, and my father in law were paired with a single. As a threesome I played from the blue(back) tees, my 15 year old son was on the white(regular mens) tees and my 70 year old father in law was on the gold(senior) tees. The single that was grouped with us was somewhere in his late 50's early 60's age range and as we warmed up appeared to be about a 15-20 handicap.

As we get to the first tee I fully expected this gentleman to approach the white or gold tees but he marches back with me on the blues and states he would like to play back here with me. I did everything in my power to convince him that he did not have to do that and that he was more than welcome to move up with my son or father in law(where he really belonged) but he would have none of that. We tee off and he hits a beautiful well struck 180 yard power fade off the first tee and I'm thinking "oh dear God, please give me the patience I'm going to need for this round"!

All day long this guy was 80-100 yards behind where both mine, my son's, and my father in laws drives were. This created a major increase in pace of play because normally(because the three of us play from the correct tees) our drives are all within 15-20 yards of each other and we can all move together and prepare to hit our next shot while the shortest driver play theirs. With this guy that was not the case because we would all have to halt our advance to our drives and wait for him to hit his second shot that was 100 yards short of out drives. Of course he couldn't reach the green from his second shot so after we hit our approach shots to the green we would again have to halt our progress to the green to wait for him to hit his 3rd full shot on par4's/ 4th full shot on par5's.

The three of us normally play 18 holes in 3:45 - 3:50, and if we add a 4th player that plays from the correct tees that goes up to around 4:10 - 4:15. This guy was not a slow player at all and tried his best to keep up but because he chose the wrong tees and had to hit an extra full shot on every hole that wasn't a par3, he added over 1 hour to our round!

There's no doubt that choosing the incorrect tee box slows down play exponentially regadless of how fast a player is. In my situation it was the worst possible case because the guy was out of position distance wise to the rest of us all day long forcing us to have to wait on him to hit his additional shots to reach the green. If you want to play as fast as possible then everyone in the group needs to play the tee box that will put them all close to each other after a "Normal" drive!

What?  You make an argument that playing fast from the back tees is still unacceptable for a worse player, then your evidence is a story about a player who slowed you down by playing from the back tees.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Parker0065

The three of us normally play 18 holes in 3:45 - 3:50, and if we add a 4th player that plays from the correct tees that goes up to around 4:10 - 4:15. This guy was not a slow player at all and tried his best to keep up but because he chose the wrong tees and had to hit an extra full shot on every hole that wasn't a par3, he added over 1 hour to our round!

Well, if he added an hour to your round, he was not playing fast.

Playing fast is more than hitting a ball fast.

It means you keep the pace - 4 hrs or under.

[Dave2512]

It's really a skill issue IMO. I've yet to see bad golf played fast. It's more than the just the distance between shots. The person that plays that way is always inconsistent. Being ready and considerate isn't the problem. Move the unskilled up and it leaves less room for problems. Put a shorter club in their hands and the mishits don't travel as far. Ask yourself am I faster kicking through the weeds or walking to a ball you can see. Ignorance is a factor as well. The people I see struggle from the tips aren't just one tee wrong. I see just as many on the whites that would benefit from being up at least another set. Problem is the more tees courses offer the further it seems people play from where they should be. Especially young men, lot's of misspent testosterone on the course.

[Parker0065]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Well, if he added an hour to your round, he was not playing fast.

Playing fast is more than hitting a ball fast.

It means you keep the pace - 4 hrs or under.

He added an hour to our normal 3 some time, about 35-40 minutes additional to what it would have been if he had played from the correct tees. You obviously missed the point that having a player play from the wrong tee forces the group as a whole to stop an additional time in the fairway adding time to the round!!!  If your out of position from a distance stand point to the rest of the group I don't care how fast you think you are your adding time to the round!

I guess if the old guy would have sprinted out ahead of us and hit his additional shots he needed then he may have been able to not add time to the round but one of us would probably have been doing some CPR on the guy eventually.

It is obvious that it wasn't a matter of him not playing fast enough, it was simply that he was on the incorrect tee box!

[Mr. Desmond]

He added an hour to our normal 3 some time, about 35-40 minutes additional to what it would have been if he had played from the correct tees. You obviously missed the point that having a player play from the wrong tee forces the group as a whole to stop an additional time in the fairway adding time to the round!!!  If your out of position from a distance stand point to the rest of the group I don't care how fast you think you are your adding time to the round!

Getting a little condescending, aren't we? No, I understood your point. You obviously misunderstood my point. As to your poor point, you can hit long and still be a crap player who plays in five hours or more Let's face it, it's a little bit of everything. To play in four hours or less, and from the back tees, you need skill to keep it in play and you have to want to play in a timely manner

[Parker0065]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Getting a little condescending, aren't we?

No, I understood your point. You obviously misunderstood my point.

As to your poor point, you can hit long and still be a crap player who plays in five hours or more

Let's face it, it's a little bit of everything. To play in four hours or less, and from the back tees, you need skill to keep it in play and you have to want to play in a timely manner

No not condescending at all!! Reading your reply I took it that you did not understand my entire post and perhaps you have never been in that same situation!

Your right that it takes a certain skill set that includes both accuracy and distance when it comes to playing back tees. There are many situations to slow play and golfers playing from the wrong set of tees. There are those that spray the ball and spend too much time in the woods, as well as those like I mentioned that do not or have not acquired the skill of accurate distance.

The example I gave was pretty obvious in that if the gentleman would have hit off the Senior tees as his skill level suggested, he would have been able to reach all the holes in regulation and not forced us to stop numerous times to let him catch up to out tee balls.

[Mr. Desmond]

Yes, but you won't get many guys to play off the senior tees. You're right, it's that macho, hormonal thing called denial.

[Parker0065]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Yes, but you won't get many guys to play off the senior tees. You're right, it's that macho, hormonal thing called denial.

Yes, there are even times I get a little frustrated with my Father in law when we play outside our home course. He will say I'm going to play the regular tees today and I know he's going to struggle.

I tell my son when I turn 65 I'll be on the Senior tees and I'll be kicking his butt,,lol! I agree it is a macho/hormonal thing!

[Wally]

I don't think about a score to shoot in order to play from the tips, and I always play from the tips. The only thing that would prevent me from doing so is my length, but I'm long enough to manage. If I ever felt my length wasn't good enough on a day, I may move up a tee box. But, most likely I won't because I am stubborn and like a challenge. I feel that if I want to be the best I can be, I have to play the tips. I'm sure others feel differently from me for their games. However, distance isn't usually what hurts me. It's my accuracy that kills me. So, even if I were to move up from the tips, I'd still be swinging the same way with just a different club. So, the ball is still going to relatively have the same flight to it as it would from the tips.