snedeker's ball moved on hole 12

[Jmdmbike]

I was watching as Brant moved the loose impediment - the log or branch. It was all on camera, and seemed absolutely fine. No harm, no foul IMHO.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by toroboy

I don't know how to call it in.  I was sure others had seen it move.  I am taping the replay and will definitely investigate Snedeker's movements.  I think the network will have the answer on unused angles---answers as to the whereabouts of Snedeker when the log vibrated.

Others did see it. And other than you, I haven't heard anyone that saw any breach that could be attributed to Snedeker or his caddie.

BTW....there was a rules official right there the entire time.

All I can say is that I'm a member on 4 golf forums, and this is the only one where it's even been mentioned, much less made an accusation of cheating.  So you are in a tiny little conspiracy minority at the moment.  Even if the ball did move, there is no way to tell who may have caused it, and if nobody saw it move that 1/64 inch (don't even buy that you could tell - 15 thousanths of an inch?  Give me a break), then it didn't move as far as the rules are concerned.  I think that like Don Quixote, toroboy is tilting at windmills.

[David L Yskes]

I just got done watching the replay of the RBC open, and watched Snedeker's 12th hole and honestly couldnt see the ball move at all......

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

All I can say is that I'm a member on 4 golf forums, and this is the only one where it's even been mentioned, much less made an accusation of cheating.  So you are in a tiny little conspiracy minority at the moment.  Even if the ball did move, there is no way to tell who may have caused it, and if nobody saw it move that 1/64 inch (don't even buy that you could tell - 15 thousanths of an inch?  Give me a break), then it didn't move as far as the rules are concerned.  I think that like Don Quixote, toroboy is tilting at windmills.

Hey, those windmills deserve what they get IMO. Every time I play mini golf, they try to swat away my ball.

And no, I don't think Snedeker would cheat. Obviously you'd have to be stupid to try it in front of the entire gallery and rules officials, not to mention cameras, when you're leading a tournament on the back 9 on Sunday. And I'm really sick of hearing stuff like this. I really don't care about it after the fact unless you can prove there was a willful infraction. It's been proven by Tiger and others that it's impossible to get away with anything these days, just distracts from the good play of Snedeker that deserves the attention.

[toroboy]

again. The wandering and lollygagging is what led to suspicion on my part, him looking for an opportunity for averted eyes to tweak the log.  Someone hit that log.  The ball moved. Who? No one talked about it because no one saw the ball move initially.  I thought golf had strict rules which is why I watch it.  Camera proof of ball movement I thought still counts.  And then, officials review the whole thing including outtakes--even after the tourney. Isn't that a rule?  Was this a PGA event?

[toroboy]

It is very hard to discuss something when people feel you have an agenda.  All I have is suspicion---and I would say it is something around 20%.  80% that log was hit inadvertently. 4putt, if no one even admits to ball movement of course you can't even graduate to conspiracy or cheating.  I could only tell that the ball moved by the rotation of the black numbers on the ball---like reading the stitching on a fastball.  Nice classical reference re the toro handle.  Maybe I am also just a blowhard.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by David L Yskes

I just got done watching the replay of the RBC open, and watched Snedeker's 12th hole and honestly couldnt see the ball move at all......

A  whole bunch of stuff moved with the ball included. It was quite clear.

But I don't think you could actually say that the ball itself moved, in a sense, as the earth and twigs and undergrowth all moved together.

To suggest that Snedeker was aware of it would show that a person is either blind - because Snedeker was 6 feet away from it - or has a particularly dim videw of human nature.

From what I have seen, of all the players on tour, Snedeker would be one of the very first to call a penalty upon himself.

He is a class act.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by toroboy

And then, officials review the whole thing including outtakes--even after the tourney. Isn't that a rule?  Was this a PGA event?

You mean they watch hours of "tapes" to just to see wrongdoings? Where did you get that idea? The cards are signed and competition closed.

[luu5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

I didn't see this, so I probably shouldn't comment, but yes, if your ball moves while moving loose impediments through the green it's a penalty.   If the movement could only be seen because of HD, and it was not reasonable for the player to have seen the movement then it's still a penalty but no DQ for signing an incorrect card.

There might not be penalty, depending on what really happened:

Quote:

18-1/3 Player Unaware Ball Moved by Outside Agency Does Not Replace Ball

Q: In stroke play, a player’s ball was moved by an outside agency. Neither the player nor his caddie was aware that his ball had been moved, so the player played the ball without replacing it. He then learned that his ball had been moved. What is the ruling?

A: As it was not known or virtually certain that the ball had been moved by an outside agency when the player played the ball, he proceeded properly and incurred no penalty - see the Note to Rule 18-1.

[Robato]

Just watched the final round and I saw it too. You could see the lettering on the ball rotate a fraction. It didn't happen as they were removing anything. They were still looking around for something. I thought that the ball the camera zoomed in on wasn't anyone's ball, the way they seemed to be continuing their search, haphazardly bumping the log, and not clearing out the area around that ball. But I don't think it was enough to say someone intended to loosen the log or the ball.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Robato

But I don't think it was enough to say someone intended to loosen the log or the ball.

It isn't a matter of intent. It's a question of who caused it to move and if it was the player, if he could reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules,

[TJBam]

Are there any clips up yet?  I did not see it and do not have the entire round recorded.

[RonTheSavage]

I watched it live and the announcers said the ball was "jostling." I didnt see it move but I guess the announcers did. But there was no further mention at all.

[RickK]

Well, re-reading this entire thread again, it seems to me that the announcers said something about the ball "jostling", and several people who recorded it said the ball moved.

Ok, with all of this, it seems apparent that the ball did something.  Did it just oscelate and come back to rest in the same spot?  If so, no penalty.

If it actually moved from its original position, is there any proof that it was Snedeker that caused the ball to move?  If the camera was focusing in closely on the ball, could you actually see Snedeker step on anything, touch anything, move anything that could have actually caused the ball to move.  In other words, do we know for a fact that it was Snedeker or his caddie to caused the ball the move.  Could it have been an "outside agency", another player, the rules official who was there with them...anyone else? Just because Snedeker was in the "vicinity" does not make him automatically guilty of causing the ball or the log(stick or whatever) to move.  If you could not tell, and the camera does not reflect...there is not way "in equity" to say that Snedeker moved the ball.

To say that Snedeker "got away with something" would be an extreme stretch for me to believe.  These guys are professionals.  They know if they are in contention, there are eyes everywhere and cameras watching pretty much their every move.

If the announcers made a comment about it, I am pretty sure the rules officials on site probably took a look at it.  If they had seen something, they would have discussed with Snedeker before he signed his scorecard. Then it would have been reviewed with Snedeker to get side of the story of what went on.  They would have also talked to the Rules Official who was on site.  They do all of this before making any ruling.  That is just how it is done.

Since I had commented earlier without seeing anything (still have not as I did not record it), I wanted to see it for myself.  I have searched the internet and thus far I have found nothing.  So, I would assume everyone was satisfied at the RBC Canadian Open and the tournament was closed and is in the books since nothing more was said by the officials.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by toroboy

I don't know how to call it in.  I was sure others had seen it move.  I am taping the replay and will definitely investigate Snedeker's movements.  I think the network will have the answer on unused angles---answers as to the whereabouts of Snedeker when the log vibrated.

I'll never "get" why people feel such a personal responsibility to enforce such rules from their own living room viewing after the fact.     I find it irritating unless it involves something OBVIOUS.     Let it go ...

[bobbyg]

While removing the log behind his ball, Snedeker was bending a small plant out of the way. He held on to it while picking up some loose impediments near his ball and never allowed the plant to return to its original position. That plant would have interfered with his swing. I called a friend who is on the USGA rules committee and he watched it several times and agreed with me. We were sure that the rules mavens were already calling the PGA. I guess not.

[toroboy]

I could say a lot here regarding the veiled insults but I thank Robato and Rick---you have made my month worth living---just admitting movement of the ball and the possibility of jostling.  All the abuse I have received just speculating on the situation tells me that the guys in the studio did not want to create controversy for it is they who have all the angles to see if it was "Sneakeder" or his caddy performing a pre jostle on the limb.

But think.  Attention was on Lingmerth.  Snedeker's ball was found and known and that's when the close up zoom snuck between leaves to view the jostle and ball rotation.  It is just a possibility that Snedeker was unaware of this close up when a seemingly inadvertent misstep lands on a ten foot long limb.  Seriously, if the ball had not been found there would be no question it was accidental.  But c'mon you golfers know what's up.  Don't rely on reputational propaganda---yes we heard the great story about Snedeker.  But why?  Don't' all golfers self report.

[geauxforbroke]

Video?