Scramble- When is a ball in play?

[MEfree]

Format- players get to place their ball within 1 club length of selected ball (while staying in a similar situation) and play their next shot.

Is their ball in play as soon as they place it, after they address it or, like a tee shot, not until a stroke has been made?

i.e. Player places ball, addresses it and

A decides that he wants to move it while still staying within 1 club length of the original ball.  Is the player penalized if they move their ball?

B's ball moves after he addresses it but before a stroke has been made.  Penalty?

In my opinion , given the loosey-goosey nature of a scramble, a ball should not be deemed to be in play until a stroke has been made on it.

According to http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=126 the ROG don't apply to a scramble and it is up to the committee to determine the rules (but I have seen some scramble rules sheets say that USGA rules apply except as noted).

If you were on a scramble committee, when would you deem a ball in play?

[David in FL]

Format- players get to place their ball within 1 club length of selected ball (while staying in a similar situation) and play their next shot. Is their ball in play as soon as they place it, after they address it or, like a tee shot, not until a stroke has been made? i.e. Player places ball, addresses it and       A decides that he wants to move it while still staying within 1 club length of the original ball.  Is the player penalized if they move their ball?      B's ball moves after he addresses it but before a stroke has been made.  Penalty? In my opinion , given the loosey-goosey nature of a scramble, a ball should not be deemed to be in play until a stroke has been made on it. According to [URL=http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=126]http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=126[/URL] the ROG don't apply to a scramble and it is up to the committee to determine the rules (but I have seen some scramble rules sheets say that USGA rules apply except as noted).  If you were on a scramble committee, when would you deem a ball in play?

Just like real golf, as soon as it was placed.

[MEfree]

Just like real golf, as soon as it was placed.

ok, so what if Player A above moves his ball and then hits it from the new position.  What would the penalty be?  Assuming it was a 4 person scramble, would the team then be forced to play that shot?

What happens when a guy tosses (or places) his ball on the ground and then rolls it with his club?  Penalty?

[David in FL]

When the ball is placed, it is in play. All applicable rules of golf apply at that time.

[Jakester23]

I've never seen anyone play that way in a scramble. Everyone I've ever played with or watched hit basically throws the ball down rolls it around with their club until its sitting how they want it and then hits.

[Harmonious]

It's a scramble, for pete's sake.  Buying unlimited mulligans, using string, keeping your own score.  There are no rules.

[Asheville]

Format- players get to place their ball within 1 club length of selected ball (while staying in a similar situation) and play their next shot.

Is their ball in play as soon as they place it, after they address it or, like a tee shot, not until a stroke has been made?

i.e. Player places ball, addresses it and

A decides that he wants to move it while still staying within 1 club length of the original ball.  Is the player penalized if they move their ball?

B's ball moves after he addresses it but before a stroke has been made.  Penalty?

In my opinion, given the loosey-goosey nature of a scramble, a ball should not be deemed to be in play until a stroke has been made on it.

According to http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=126 the ROG don't apply to a scramble and it is up to the committee to determine the rules (but I have seen some scramble rules sheets say that USGA rules apply except as noted).

If you were on a scramble committee, when would you deem a ball in play?

Oh, you again ... this time asking, "What are the rules when we're not playing by the Rules?" (Full credit to that smart man, turtleback.)

[rustyredcab]

It's a scramble, for pete's sake.  Buying unlimited mulligans, using string, keeping your own score.  There are no rules.

+1

You are over thinking this.

[iacas]

A scramble is not a defined or allowed form of golf. People stand behind others on the lines of their putts, take mulligans, fluff their balls up in the rough because they don't like tight lies in the fairway, etc. It's the wild west.

I'd love to be there when you call a penalty on a guy for moving his ball after he places it in a scramble.

[Fourputt]

It's a scramble, for pete's sake.  Buying unlimited mulligans, using string, keeping your own score.  There are no rules.

This^^

Some people worry too much.

[Jakester23]

Scrambles are supposed to be fun and are usually fundraiser. My main goal is to give a lot of people shit and drink a number of adult beverages.

[MEfree]

In my opinion, given the loosey-goosey nature of a scramble, a ball should not be deemed to be in play until a stroke has been made on it.

Just like real golf, as soon as it was placed.

So in a 4 person scramble, suppose they choose a tee shot that lies 75 yards from the hole.  Player 1 hits his shot on the green 10 inches from the hole.  Player 2 places his ball, then moves it and then hits it in the hole.  What score does the team record?

A scramble is not a defined or allowed form of golf. People stand behind others on the lines of their putts, take mulligans, fluff their balls up in the rough because they don't like tight lies in the fairway, etc. It's the wild west.

I'd love to be there when you call a penalty on a guy for moving his ball after he places it in a scramble.

Is this directed at me, David or just a general statement?

The reason I brought this up is because scenario B happened to me yesterday on our last hole from just off the green in our Men's league 1 person scramble.  I had hit my 1st eagle putt to about 9 feet and was addressing my second attempt when my ball moved slightly- the wind was blowing but it probably moved due to the slope and settling of grass just off the green.  I immediately announced to my playing competitor that the ball had moved, but we were unsure if I was subject to a penalty or not.  I suggested that I proceed under 3-3 and hole both balls, he said that it vexes our committee when someone does that and thought I would be fine hitting the 2nd attempt without penalty- I put that one about 2 feet away and sunk the next one for my birdie.

[iacas]

Is this directed at me, David or just a general statement?

At you. This is a stupid thread.

I'm moving it out of Rules of Golf because it doesn't belong here.

[rustyredcab]

So in a 4 person scramble, suppose they choose a tee shot that lies 75 yards from the hole.  Player 1 hits his shot on the green 10 inches from the hole.  Player 2 places his ball, then moves it and then hits it in the hole.  What score does the team record?

Is this directed at me, David or just a general statement?

The reason I brought this up is because scenario B happened to me yesterday on our last hole from just off the green in our Men's league 1 person scramble.  I had hit my 1st eagle putt to about 9 feet and was addressing my second attempt when my ball moved slightly- the wind was blowing but it probably moved due to the slope and settling of grass just off the green.  I immediately announced to my playing competitor that the ball had moved, but we were unsure if I was subject to a penalty or not.  I suggested that I proceed under 3-3 and hole both balls, he said that it vexes our committee when someone does that and thought I would be fine hitting the 2nd attempt without penalty- I put that one about 2 feet away and sunk the next one for my birdie.

What the heck are you playing a 1-man scramble for anyway? Is it an attempt for your club to slow pace of play to the point where it looks like it going backwards?

What part of IT IS A SCRAMBLE don't you get. Take it for the serious round it is. Which is not. Too bad you didn't have 2 feet of string. You'd have made an eagle.

[turtleback]

At you. This is a stupid thread.

I'm moving it out of Rules of Golf because it doesn't belong here.

The title of this thread should have been "How do you apply the Rules when you aren't playing by them."

And why am I NOT shocked at who the OP is?

[Dave2512]

My goal is to never play in another scramble but somehow I get roped in. In Matt's defense they do some weird stuff up there, I played one of the courses he frequents last weekend. It was unbelievably slow but I didn't care because it was a day off in the mountains. Anyway my step-dad got irritated after seeing two groups of 5 ahead of us on the back 9. When the ranger rolled by he got crabby with him because of the slow 5's. The ranger without blinking said they're playing a scramble. Who goes out on the course and just randomly plays a scramble? From what I saw they pretty much let people do whatever they want up there. I watched a tourist that I talked to at the bar in the group ahead me play from 7000 yd tees and this guy was a 25+ handicap type. He hit a minimum of 3 balls OB on a par 3 and kept hitting until he put one in a spot he liked. It was the usual resort course madness.

[Big C]

In the scrambles that I play, what usually happens is that a player will drop a ball within the prescribed length of the chosen shot, and then roll it around with his/her club until they get a desirable lie. I rarely see people actually "place" their ball - the sole exception being a ball in the rough (where people will try to get the juciest, fluffiest lie they can by placing the ball gently). Even on the green, most times people will just drop the ball somewhere near the marker and then push it forward with their putter until they are ready to address. In any event, I never consider a scramble ball in play until someone has actually taken a stroke at the ball.

In my experience, the only scramble rule that has ever caused contention is when a player will miss a medium length putt - say a 15 footer - by a few inches. Rather than mark it, he will proceed to hole out the putt, even with other members of his group not having taken a run at the 15 footer. This happened on the 18th green at a recent scramble event, and caused a significant but good-natured uproar. The prior groups who were hanging around 18 claimed that the hole out was the conclusion of the hole, and despite the next player in the group sinking the birdie putt, they had to take the first guy's par.

Ultimately, the tournament organizer agreed to grant the team their birdie. But I would have agreed with him, had he said that the par putt stood.

[UncleRobot]

A scramble is not a defined or allowed form of golf. People stand behind others on the lines of their putts, take mulligans, fluff their balls up in the rough because they don't like tight lies in the fairway, etc. It's the wild west.

I'd love to be there when you call a penalty on a guy for moving his ball after he places it in a scramble.

I'd love to be there when you call a penalty on a guy as well. (This thread is absurd.)