Push or slice (but not push slice) my hybrid almost every time - what causes this?

[nvestn]

Hi guys,

This is my first season of seriously spending time playing golf.

Started out the season a horrible mess with most clubs. I am now to the point where I can hit my driver with consistency (although I still have a fade/small slice I can't seem to eliminate). I'm hitting my irons solid and the longer irons have a bit of fade. I am hitting fairway woods with very solid contact but with a bit of slice as well.

My real problem is my 3 hybrid - I bought it because everybody says it was the best thing since sliced bread. I can't hit it for poo. In the beginning I was constantly topping the ball - now I am getting solid contact but I am hitting it right off the face almost every time. The odd time that I do not push it, it starts off straight but slices badly to the right. I can't seem to hit it straight.

The hybrid is a TaylorMade RBZ STage 2 17 degree with stock Rocketfuel Stiff shaft.

I am trying to hit it like an iron (taking a small divot, etc.).

Based on the laws of ball flight, I am hitting it with the clubface open - why only this club?

I am planning on taking winter lessons on a golf simulator but still have some time to hit the range before the snow flies here...

EDIT : I know I do have an outside in swing and am working on correcting that. I have started placing my right foot back a few inches away from the target line. It has helped reducing the severity of my slice big time - but still not straight...

[gophinmedic]

It may not be the right idea to play it like an iron. Its really more of a wood, just smaller. Place it forward in your stance and shallow out your swing. If your coming in too steep, the club may not have the time to release and square up to the ball. Match that with your swing path you described and it equals slice all day. Also, what stiffness are your other clubs?

[nvestn]

Thanks! I have always heard to approach a hybrid like an iron (steeper swing instead of a sweep). Will trying to hit it like a FW act as a bandaid for a bad swing? I'd rather fix the swing than band aid it!

All of my clubs are stiff flex except my 3 and 5 wood (I haven't gotten around to upgrading those yet).

Driver : Adams Speedline 9064LS (Aldila RIP Gamma Stiff)

Irons : Ping G10 4-PW, UW (Stiff Steel AWT stock shaft)

Hybrid : TaylorMade RBZ 2 17 deg 3H (Stiff Rocketfuel stock shaft non-tour version)

Woods : Dunlop Reaction 3 and 5 wood (Regular) - and yes I know these suck but only lately have I been able to start hitting woods properly - will invest in a nice set soon

[gophinmedic]

Many pros play these forward in their stance. If you need a lower ball flight you can play it back, but the goal of a hybrid over an iron is to get it in the air and land softly.

[WUTiger]

...My real problem is my 3 hybrid - I bought it because everybody says it was the best thing since sliced bread. I can't hit it for poo. In the beginning I was constantly topping the ball - now I am getting solid contact but I am hitting it right off the face almost every time. The odd time that I do not push it, it starts off straight but slices badly to the right. I can't seem to hit it straight.

The hybrid is a TaylorMade RBZ STage 2 17 degree with stock Rocketfuel Stiff shaft.

I am trying to hit it like an iron (taking a small divot, etc.) ....

I believe you have a TM RBZ Tour Stage 2 "2H" 16.5* hybrid, which has the Rf stiff shaft. (Lowest lofted basic RBZ St.2 hybrid is 19* 3H)

Your irons are G10, which have a fair amount of offset. Your Adams LS driver is adjustable. (You don't mention what model your FWs are). A Tour hybrid will have a square face or possibly a degree open. The offset of your irons helps you set up at address to get a square face at impact.

First action: try playing the ball farther back in your stance, and hit it like an iron. If this doesn't work, go to a regular 3H. Again, you'd have to talk to the TM reps about the face angle of the RBZ Tour hybrids.

Note: At a past demo day, both the Adams and the Callaway reps advised average golfers to avoid the 16* and 17* 2-Hybrids. The 2H mostly comes in pro or tour versions, and players without high clubhead speed may have trouble using the club.

[nvestn]

I believe you have a TM RBZ Tour Stage 2 "2H" 16.5* hybrid, which has the Rf stiff shaft. (Lowest lofted basic RBZ St.2 hybrid is 19* 3H)

Your irons are G10, which have a fair amount of offset. Your Adams LS driver is adjustable. (You don't mention what model your FWs are). A Tour hybrid will have a square face or possibly a degree open. The offset of your irons helps you set up at address to get a square face at impact.

First action: try playing the ball farther back in your stance, and hit it like an iron. If this doesn't work, go to a regular 3H. Again, you'd have to talk to the TM reps about the face angle of the RBZ Tour hybrids.

Note: At a past demo day, both the Adams and the Callaway reps advised average golfers to avoid the 16* and 17* 2-Hybrids. The 2H mostly comes in pro or tour versions, and players without high clubhead speed may have trouble using the club.

Thank you for the reply! Sorry took a few days to reply back...

I do in fact have a RBZ Stage 2 non-tour version. It is in fact 3H 19 degree, sorry about that - had a brain fart and thought it was 17 degree for some reason...

Where would you recommend I play the 3H in my stance? I typically play my mid irons dead-center in my stance and the longer irons about 1-2 balls forward. To correct the issue should I be playing the hybrid dead center?

[Alan Lee]

It really doesn't matter where you play the ball as long as it is somewhere from center to off your left instep.  You should be able to hit good shots from either position, granted your swing holds up.  I play all clubs an inch off my left heel, even my short irons, to make sure I get the true loft of the club (for normal shots of course, I play a knockdown with the ball in the middle if I feel like it).  Hybrids are generally lower loft so I definitely want the true loft of the club.

Also, with the longer shaft of the hybrid, you're better off with a shallow swing so all the more reason to play it up in your stance.  But like I said, don't worry about ball position so much as your swing.  You should be just as much able to hit driver off the middle of your stance as you are able to hit a sand wedge off your left instep.

[Alan Lee]

As for the slice, it's simple.  You're not releasing the club.  Longer clubs are harder to release because the torque created by the turning of the shaft resists your effort to shut the face.  There's 2 ways to get around this.  You can try to swing more fluidly and let the club naturally release through centripetal force.  Or you can aggressively shut the club by turning your shoulders.  I like to employ the latter.  There's also technically a third way I suppose and that being to become a power lifter and get forearms of steel that can twist the face shut at high speeds but that's really tough.  But make sure you don't pull out of the shot if you turn your shoulders because you can cut across the ball and slice it or miss badly off the toe.

[mvmac]

My real problem is my 3 hybrid - I bought it because everybody says it was the best thing since sliced bread. I can't hit it for poo. In the beginning I was constantly topping the ball - now I am getting solid contact but I am hitting it right off the face almost every time. The odd time that I do not push it, it starts off straight but slices badly to the right. I can't seem to hit it straight.

Would recommend posting a swing here http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

Good chance you need to have the path less across the ball, I recommend taking a look at these videos

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_785397

As for the slice, it's simple.  You're not releasing the club.  Longer clubs are harder to release because the torque created by the turning of the shaft resists your effort to shut the face.  There's 2 ways to get around this.  You can try to swing more fluidly and let the club naturally release through centripetal force.  Or you can aggressively shut the club by turning your shoulders.  I like to employ the latter.  There's also technically a third way I suppose and that being to become a power lifter and get forearms of steel that can twist the face shut at high speeds but that's really tough.  But make sure you don't pull out of the shot if you turn your shoulders because you can cut across the ball and slice it or miss badly off the toe.

I would avoid sharing this kind of information, it's incorrect.  Releasing, lack of releasing has nothing to do with slicing or drawing the ball.  If anything "releasing it" rotataes the path more to the left.  For more go here http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[Alan Lee]

Would recommend posting a swing here http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

Good chance you need to have the path less across the ball, I recommend taking a look at these videos

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_785397

I would avoid sharing this kind of information, it's incorrect.  Releasing, lack of releasing has nothing to do with slicing or drawing the ball.  If anything "releasing it" rotataes the path more to the left.  For more go here http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

There's a myriad of things in the golf swing that can cause a certain shot shape.  Yes I'm familiar with d-plane and all the old thinking vs new thinking.  My experience is that it is harder to release the longer clubs at high speeds.  This guy hits his irons fine with his long irons having a slight fade.  I used to have this issue too so I'm just sharing the things I did to fix it.  I'm not saying I'm a pro or anything but I'd compare my swing to just about anybody and I probably shoot lower than you mr pro.  Sometimes it is as simple as leaving the clubface open and it feels to me that the club is harder to turn to square at high speeds.

I'm assuming that everything is constant with this guy's swing.  On plane, correct path.  I'm not going to assume anything is wrong unless I've seen it.  The only thing I know is that he hits a push or a slice.  I'm not giving advice that goes along with the old adages like "you're swinging over the top." C'mon everyone knows that stuff, I'm sure someone else...like you...will chime in with it eventually.  Isn't it a bit rude and elitist to say I shouldn't be sharing this kind of information?  I didn't say anything about drawing the ball.  Where did that come from?

If you swing inside out and your clubface points right, then are you not going to push a shot to the right?  You're not going to draw the ball with your clubface pointing dead right.

[mvmac]

Sometimes it is as simple as leaving the clubface open and it feels to me that the club is harder to turn to square at high speeds.

The idea of the face being square is just wrong, no player on the PGA tour is "square" to the target at impact.  They all have patterns and have the face left or right of the target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Lee

I'm assuming that everything is constant with this guy's swing.  On plane, correct path.  I'm not going to assume anything is wrong unless I've seen it.  The only thing I know is that he hits a push or a slice.  I'm not giving advice that goes along with the old adages like "you're swinging over the top."

He's a 25 handicap so it wouldn't be incorrect to assume his swing is not on plane or on the "correct path".  Having an "on plane" swing or an in-out path is not a trait of a high handicapper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Lee

Isn't it a bit rude and elitist to say I shouldn't be sharing this kind of information?  I didn't say anything about drawing the ball.  Where did that come from?

No, telling someone to release it is just bad information.  Like I said, more you try to release the more the clubhead swings left.

If you swing inside out and your clubface points right, then are you not going to push a shot to the right?  You're not going to draw the ball with your clubface pointing dead right.

Depends on what the face/path relationship is.  If the face is 3* right, path 5* right, ball will start right and draw.  Face 6* right, path 3* right, ball will push fade.  The fix for the latter is not necessarily to release it more, there are more pieces at play.

[Mr. Desmond]

Note to OP: listen to MVMAC