Project X 5.5 or S300?

[golfergray]

Another of my Rifle Flighted 5.5 shafts has bitten the dust and I need to find a suitable replacement, the original shafts are no longer available. Fortunately last time I had to replace a shaft I was able to replace it with a non-flighted rifle, which as it was in the 8 iron wasn't a big problem, however I don't think I'm going to be that lucky again. My pro shop is advising a Project X Flighted or non-flighted 5.5 or an S300, any advice on which will be closest to the original Rifle Flighted 5.5? I'm not sure the flighted / non-flighted is a big issue as I'm replacing the 7 iron shaft, i.e. in the middle of the set. My understanding of the flighted shafts is that the long irons and short iron shafts have different kick points to 'normal' shafts to promote different ball flights, so the kick points in say a Rifle Flighted and an S300 7 iron shaft would be similar and have similar ball flights? Onto flexes. I've read that the Project X Flighted 5.5 will be similar to a Rifle Flighted 5.5 but that a Project X (non-flighted) 5.0 would be closest to the Rifle Flighted 5.5. Any thoughts on this? I've also read that an S300 would play about 5.7? Finally, weight? I was originally fitted for the Rifle Flighted 5.5s over S300s as they are a bit lighter, does this sound about right? Can anyone shed any light on whether the Project Xs (flighted or not) are similar weights to the Rifle Flighted? In summary, I'm trying to choose between the Project X Flighted 5.5 or S300, which will be closest in terms of flex and weight, or is there not much in it? Cost is also a concern as the S300 will no doubt be significantly cheaper. Or should I be looking at something entirely different, say a KBS R+ or something? Thanks for reading!

[WUTiger]

The old Rifle vs. Project X Rifle/Rifle flighted can be confusing. Here's how the different shafts compare, from old GolfWorks catalogs and online tables.

Shaft	FCM	Weight
Rifle 5.5	5.5	124 grams
Project X 5.5 Rifle	6.0	115 grams
Project X 5.5 Flighted	6.0	120 grams
Dynamic Golf S300	5.8	130 gram
Non- FCM info from GolfWorks 2009 Clubmaking Catalog

Frequency Coefficient Matching (FCM) is used to compare shaft flexes across different manufacturers and shaft models.

The original Rifle shafts had a shaft rating which matched its FCM, while the Project X family shafts had an FCM of + .5 above its shaft rating. (Both shafts were developed by Royal Precision, which was bought out by True Temper).

Also, what iron are you reshafting? (This matters in relation to flighting). You might contact some custom club shops and see if anyone has an old Rifle pullout you could use. Also, a good clubsmith could probably help you come up with a non-Rifle solution.

[golfergray]

Wow, thanks, very helpful. It's looking like the Project X Flighted 5.0 will be the best match, surprised that my pro shop recommended the 5.5s if they play 0.5 firmer. Also considering the S300 but soft stepped to bring it back to 5.5. Any drawbacks to doing this?

[WUTiger]

... Also considering the S300 but soft stepped to bring it back to 5.5. Any drawbacks to doing this?

I had considered suggesting this... it would be on target for FCM, but a few grams heavier in weight than the Rifle 5.5 shaft.

Not sure if you could feel a difference in weight.

[StrayCat]

The old Rifle vs. Project X Rifle/Rifle flighted can be confusing. Here's how the different shafts compare, from old GolfWorks catalogs and online tables.

Shaft

FCM

Weight

Rifle 5.5

5.5

124 grams

Project X 5.5 Rifle

6.0

115 grams

Project X 5.5 Flighted

6.0

120 grams

Dynamic Golf S300

5.8

130 gram

Non- FCM info from GolfWorks 2009

Clubmaking Catalog

Frequency Coefficient Matching (FCM) is used to compare shaft flexes across different manufacturers and shaft models.

The original Rifle shafts had a shaft rating which matched its FCM, while the Project X family shafts had an FCM of + .5 above its shaft rating. (Both shafts were developed by Royal Precision, which was bought out by True Temper).

Also, what iron are you reshafting? (This matters in relation to flighting). You might contact some custom club shops and see if anyone has an old Rifle pullout you could use. Also, a good clubsmith could probably help you come up with a non-Rifle solution.

So help me understand this, please.  A Project X Flighted 5.5, although slightly lighter than a DG S300, actually plays a bit stiffer?  Thanks.

[WUTiger]

So help me understand this, please.  A Project X Flighted 5.5, although slightly lighter than a DG S300, actually plays a bit stiffer?  Thanks.

You are correct! I found out by trial and error before stumbling onto the FCM charts. (FCM = Frequency Coefficient Matching. Clubfitters in years past found that shafts from a given manufacturing batch sometimes varied in their actual stiffness. So, if a clubsmith was building or reshafting a set of irons, he would want eight shafts that closely matched in actual shaft-to-shaft flex. Eventuallly, someone found that you could use FCM to compare shafts of different manufacturers on actual stiffness/flex).

First of all, there's no industry standard for flex ratings that the manufacturers label as Regular and Stiff. A partial solution is FCM tables. The Project X 6.0 is labeled as Stiff, but has an FCM = 6.5. DG S300 is labeled as Stiff, but only has FCM = 5.8.

About 2009, I dumped Stiff shafts in all my non-wedge clubs and went back to Regular.

For awhile I played X20 irons with the Uniflex shaft, which falls between R and Stiff, and probably has FCM about 5.5. It's average weight was about 115 grams. When I switched to the X20 Tours, with PX 5.0 rifle flighted shafts, I thought I was getting a little softer flex at about the same shaft weight. But, it turns out the FCM = 5.5 for PX 5.0 (see table in earlier post).

Enter light and superlight shafts. At recent golf expos and demo days, I am finding I could probably hit some of the lighter weight shafts in an S flex. So, you have to find your crossover point for shaft weight vs. flex. A lighter weight shaft will travel faster than a heavier one, therefore you might need to increase stiffness to maintain control. You just have to try out different flex and weight combinations to find the best range for you.

Go to a golf shop or a demo day where a club rep has a fitting cart. Using the same clubhead, compare a lightweight Stiff shaft to a mediumweight Regular in feel and trajectory.

[SamGray]

Personally I don't care for project x shafts because they feel harsh. This is just me. Make sure you demo all of the options before making a final decision! Would love to hear what you decide

[StrayCat]

Thanks for the info, WU.  Reason I was asking is that I recently purchased some used irons that have Flighted Proj. X 5.5's and was told that was equivalent to an R shaft, which is what I wanted.  Oh well, guess I'll find out this spring when the weather gets better and I can get out and hit them.

[saevel25]

If I had to rank the shafts out their now from top to bottom.

KBS C-Taper

KBS Tour

Project X

True Temper

[WUTiger]

Thanks for the info, WU.  Reason I was asking is that I recently purchased some used irons that have Flighted Proj. X 5.5's and was told that was equivalent to an R shaft, which is what I wanted.  Oh well, guess I'll find out this spring when the weather gets better and I can get out and hit them.

PX reps would probably tell you that the 5.5 is Firm (between R and S). But the 5.5 has FCM = 6.0, which a tad stiffer than the DG S300 with FCM = 5.8. (TT labels S300 as stiff).

If you try the irons and like them, that's great. If you like them but find them a little harsh to swing, you could always softstep the shafts.

[Jakester23]

If I had to rank the shafts out their now from top to bottom.

KBS C-Taper

KBS Tour

Project X

True Temper

Where would you put the CFS's? I was looking at the new ping i25's and it looks like they come standard with the CFS's.

[saevel25]

Ping makes their own golf shafts. They don't contract out to golf shaft makers. So I have no clue. I know Ping makes usually a good product. They are not flashy, but good quality. So I presume they would take the same care with their shafts.

By the specs they are a lighter shaft, probably similar to the KBS tour 90 in weight profile. The torque is pretty low for their iron shafts, so they probably have a pretty stiff tip section.

Quote:

PING RESPONDED: "The design of the CFS shaft is based off of the Z-Z65. The main difference is the CFS is a constant weight shaft instead of a descending weighted shaft. The CFS Stiff and the Z-Z65 are very close without stepping the shaft. Please let me know if you have any questions."

The Z-Z65 golf shaft (stiff flex only) is very similar to the Dynamic Gold S300, but lighter.

Take it as you will. Best advice, hit them and see if you like them

[StrayCat]

PX reps would probably tell you that the 5.5 is Firm (between R and S). But the 5.5 has FCM = 6.0, which a tad stiffer than the DG S300 with FCM = 5.8. (TT labels S300 as stiff).

If you try the irons and like them, that's great. If you like them but find them a little harsh to swing, you could always softstep the shafts.

Firm might not be too bad.  I have a set of Nike CCI forged with 5.0's and never had a problem with them, actually thought they felt pretty good.  A half step stiffer is most likely outside my ability to even feel it.

Thanks again for your input.  You always seem to prove the old adage, "you don't know what you don't know", and I've been playing this game for almost 50 years.

[jimb54]

I'm at the same question but here is my best answer. Royal precision says 5.0 is a regular. 5.5 is a stiff etc. if u go to a 5.5  project x 95 shaft flighted this will be a regular some say reg + (firm) and 6.0 would be stiff. as for a kbs tour 90 reg would a reg + I choose the 5.5 x 95 over kbs. I played royal precision 5.0 in my mp 52 and loved them. my swing speed is 73-80 mph. lofts and shaft length have a lot to do with distance per club from different makers.

[misty_mountainhop]

I _hate_ PX. They feel way too harsh for me but then I have a reasonably rhythmic tempo/transition. Heard it said you need to have a quickish tempo and/or strong transition with the original PX - more of a 'hitters' shaft than a 'swingers'? Think the newer PXi shaft is meant to feel a little better...

[arturo28mx]

My own experience, I have used Project X pxi and Project X 95 flighted, both in 5.5 and 5.0 flex, and they all feel too harsh for me.

[WUTiger]

Where would you put the CFS's? I was looking at the new ping i25's and it looks like they come standard with the CFS's.

The Ping rep stopped by the local GGalaxy recently, and I got to try out the new i25 irons. It was a worthwhile session!

I tried out the CFS R.flex steel shaft for the 6 irons in both the i25 and the G25. I loved it with both iron models. The i25 felt good and carried a little over 150, but the G25 carried out to 160 (about 8 yards longer).

The R.flex is 5 grams lighter than the DG R300 SL, a launches the ball slightly higher. CFS-R is a few grams heavier than the Callaway Step 85, and the TT DG XP95 shafts: easier to feel when you're "at the top." But CRS-R feels really lively when it moves through the ball.

CFS Shaft (from PING 2014 Golf Equipment Brochure)
Flex	Soft-R	Reg	Stiff	X-Stiff
Torque	2.2°	2.1°	1.8°	1.6°
Weight	94 gr.	99 gr.	109 gr.	114 gr.

Note : The numbered irons for i25, G25, Karsten and G20

models all have a D0 swingweight (wedges are heavier). S55 has D1.