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# What do you consider a short/long Par hole

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So, I was taking part in the How to Break 100 thread and it got me thinking, is there a standard or somewhat standard definition about what constitutes a short par 3, par 4, and par 5 and what constitutes a long par 3, par 4, and par 5?

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No there is no standard, just individual opinion based upon ones ability. On flat land with no prevailing wind I would consider a par 5 at 575 yards or longer a long par 5, a par 4 of 400 yards a long par 4 and a par 3 of 180 a long par 3.

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No there is no standard, just individual opinion based upon ones ability. On flat land with no prevailing wind I would consider a par 5 at 575 yards or longer a long par 5, a par 4 of 400 yards a long par 4 and a par 3 of 180 a long par 3.

If it is truly based on ability, then I would venture out to say that I would consider anything that is a long par 3,4,5 as one that it is physically impossible for me to get a GIR on..

For par 3 I don't think there is such a thing as a short par 3, so it would be either a long par 3 that I can't reach in one or a normal par 3.

For par 4 if I can reach the green in 1 then that is a short par 4

For par 5 if I can reach in 2 then it is a short par 5

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See, I would consider a 100 yard par 3 to be a short par 3 and a 200 par 3 a long par 3 so I was curious if there's a general agreement upon definition.

Also from the thread I linked, there was a discussion of 400+ yard par 4's and I got the impression that it's generally agreed that a hole like that is considered a long par 4.

This webpage gives the following ranges which also gave me cause to consider it:

Par 3 - Up to 250 yards
Par 4 - 251 to 470 yards
Par 5 - 471 yards to 690 yards

I guess it also matters which tees you're playing from.

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This webpage gives the following ranges which also gave me cause to consider it:

Par 3 - Up to 250 yards

Par 4 - 251 to 470 yards

Par 5 - 471 yards to 690 yards

I guess it also matters which tees you're playing from.

In the website I think they really just discuss the range of each of the par 3's,4's or 5's.. I think in general terms there would rarely be any disagreement over what is mentioned.

Although, even with the ranges I think it is kind of silly to say 251 is par 4 while 250 is par 3..  or 470 par 4 and 471 par 5 :)

I didn't see them really get into what would constitute a long vs. short par 3,4 or 5.  I'm too lazy to do a google search too.. lol, but a question pops to mind from reading the article.  Is there any way we can know the effective yardage of a hole or is that just too much to ask usually?

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There is no right or wrong answer. The longest iron I carry is 5 so would consider a par 3 long if I can't hit that to it, so about 200 yards. I think par 4s are long if I have to take driver off the tee just to leave a mid iron. So 420 is starting to get long. The course I used to play quite a lot had a 480 yard par 4 and that was brutal. And I think a par 5 is long if I absolutely can't reach in 2 regardless of conditions. So probably 570+
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Shortest par 3 I have played was 90 yards, longest was 246.

I don't know if there is a universal standard but probably something like if you have a wedge off the tee box then its a short par 3, anything over an Iron off tee box its long.

For par 4 there can be a huge range there but if you can hit the green off the tee or at least have a short chip on would have to be considered short, as for long par 4's they get up close to 500..which is hard to hit in 2 for a lot of people

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Short par 3 seen many in 100-110 range Long there is one at a course I have played it's 207 but it's uphill. Plays 20 yards longer than that. It's a hybrid for me. Short par 4 played 253 but topography of the hole makes them difficult Long I've seen 440 which really is a par 5 for me. Short par 5 475 out of the holes I've encountered. Long 638 yards I know of one course where this the case in my county.
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Short Par 3: 130 or less

Long Par 3: 180+

Short Par 4: 360 or Less

Long Par 4: 440 or more

Short par 5: 450 or less

Long par 5: 550 or more

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Sort of on, or off topic, but additional info on distance.  This was cut from a website:

Computing Your Ideal Course Distance. The answer to the question of how long a course should be for you is real simple.  It is  28.  Just multiply the length of a well hit drive for you by 28 and that, in my estimation, is the length of a course that will be challenging but enjoyable to play.

If you are trying to determine what length of holes and to help identify the correct tees that best suit your game, give the above simple equation a try.

Another example to help determine practical course length for us is to compare a tour pros game to yours.  A tour pro plays a 440 yard par-4 driver, wedge.  At what distance do YOU hit driver wedge on a par-4 hole.  Is it 300?  350?  400?  Whatever the number, choose your tee box based on the driver wedge formula.

For me, I always try to play tee boxes where a course plays 5800-6200.  Any longer than 6200 yards and I'm usually overmatched by the length.  More specifically, the length of the par-4s and sometimes the par-3s.

I don't feel like there is a chance to consistently have par opportunities on par-4s much longer than 360 yards.  Same thing on par-3s over 160 yards.  The par 5s don't bother me that much because you really don't see many 550+ par 5s when playing a course at 6200 or shorter.

Just keepin' it real for myself.

dave

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Short Par 3: 130 or less Long Par 3: 180+ Short Par 4: 360 or Less Long Par 4: 440 or more Short par 5: 450 or less Long par 5: 550 or more

This is more or less how I feel. My optimum par 3 is 165 yards, par 4 is around 390, par 5 is 500. The 460+ par 4 are really hard. Basically, I am limited by the desire to use 8i or 7i on the approach of a par 4 to feel comfortable. Par 5 would be nice to pitch that last approach shot. These are the holes I par more often.

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Under normal conditions, no elevation change:

Par 3: short < 75, long > 200

Par 4: short < 300, long > 450

Par 5: short < 450, long > 550

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This is more or less how I feel. My optimum par 3 is 165 yards, par 4 is around 390, par 5 is 500. The 460+ par 4 are really hard. Basically, I am limited by the desire to use 8i or 7i on the approach of a par 4 to feel comfortable. Par 5 would be nice to pitch that last approach shot.

For me its this logic. Long par 3 will use a long iron or more. Long par 4 needs a long iron or more on the 2nd shot. Long par five can barely be reached in two.

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Short Par 3: 130 or less

Long Par 3: 180+

Short Par 4: 360 or Less

Long Par 4: 440 or more

Short par 5: 450 or less

Long par 5: 550 or more

I'm with Matt on this one too.  My league course has one par 3 that is from 190 to 210 depending on the tee and flag.  It is a nasty hole because you have to hit the green.  Short is a marsh.  Long and left is tall grass and right is woods.

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Of course there is no right answer because it depends on who is hitting the ball.

For me (without an elevation change factor).

A par 3 over 200 yards I consider long.

A par 4 over 400 yards I consider long.

A par 5 over 500 yards I consider long.

BTW. The toughest par 5 I play regularly is only 505 yards (doglegging up the side of a ridge). Never reached it in 2. Never considered reaching it in 2. No decent place to lay up inside of 100 yards. From 100 yards the shot is blind with the sloping green about 100 feet above that level.

The toughest par 4 I play regularly is only 345 yards uphill tee shot with OB on both sides. Green sloping away for the second shot.

So length is not the main factor I consider when evaluating the toughness of a hole.

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The USGA has periodically issued guidelines for the par-ratings of holes based on their lengths; i.e., if a hole is 200 yards, it is a par-3. Those guidelines have changed over the years, and the way they are used has changed, too.

The current guidelines are these for men:

Par 3 - Up to 250 yards
Par 4 - 251 to 470 yards
Par 5 - 471 yards to 690 yards
Par 6 - 691 yards or more

And for women:

Par 3 - Up to 210 yards
Par 4 - 211 to 400 yards
Par 5 - 401 to 575 yards
Par 6 - 575 yards or more

As we know this is just a guideline, and not etched in stone.  The 2007 U.S. Open at Oakmont played to the following distances...

Holes #1 (482), #7 (479), #9 (477), #15 (500), and #18 (484) played as par 4's,well  over the recommended distances listed above.

Notice that hole #8 was 288 yards, but in the fourth round played over 300 yards as a par 3.  In the same round #8 was longer than #17, a par 4, where the tee was up.

In the fourth round Angel Cabrera birdied #8 and Jim Furyk bogied two short par 4's, #2 and #17. Furyk finished one stroke behind Carbrera.

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Of course there is no right answer because it depends on who is hitting the ball. For me (without an elevation change factor). A par 3 over 200 yards I consider long. A par 4 over 400 yards I consider long. A par 5 over 500 yards I consider long. BTW. The toughest par 5 I play regularly is only 505 yards (doglegging up the side of a ridge). Never reached it in 2. Never considered reaching it in 2. No decent place to lay up inside of 100 yards. From 100 yards the shot is blind with the sloping green about 100 feet above that level. The toughest par 4 I play regularly is only 345 yards uphill tee shot with OB on both sides. Green sloping away for the second shot. So length is not the main factor I consider when evaluating the toughness of a hole.

True, I guess we (hinting you :-))should start a thread, what's your hardest par 3,4,5 holes. It would be interesting to post pictures and maps.

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The USGA has periodically issued guidelines for the par-ratings of holes based on their lengths; i.e., if a hole is 200 yards, it is a par-3. Those guidelines have changed over the years, and the way they are used has changed, too.

The current guidelines are these for men:

Par 3 - Up to 250 yards

Par 4 - 251 to 470 yards

Par 5 - 471 yards to 690 yards

Par 6 - 691 yards or more

And for women:

Par 3 - Up to 210 yards

Par 4 - 211 to 400 yards

Par 5 - 401 to 575 yards

Par 6 - 575 yards or more

As we know this is just a guideline, and not etched in stone.  The 2007 U.S. Open at Oakmont played to the following distances...

Holes #1 (482), #7 (479), #9 (477), #15 (500), and #18 (484) played as par 4's,well  over the recommended distances listed above.

Notice that hole #8 was 288 yards, but in the fourth round played over 300 yards as a par 3.  In the same round #8 was longer than #17, a par 4, where the tee was up.

In the fourth round Angel Cabrera birdied #8 and Jim Furyk bogied two short par 4's, #2 and #17. Furyk finished one stroke behind Carbrera.

Not a fan of these ridiculous long par 3's and I'm sure the players don't care for them much either, I just don't agree that a player has to hit at least 3 wood to get on a green in regulation is fair, I know these are world class players and if anybody can do it of course it would be them but I just feel a 300 yard par 3 is ridiculous.#15 at Olympic played 99 yards one day and made for a lot of excitement, of course they had to stuff the pin right behind the front bunkers but so what it's not like they had multiple hole in ones on that hole.

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