Are Pressure Points Active or Passive at Address?

[billchao]

A mental image or "feel" for this would be to picture a waiter carrying a tray over his right shoulder.

I can relate to that. Since my natural tendency is to cup my wrist, I should make a conscious effort to bow it, right? The end result should be somewhere in the middle?

[saevel25]

A mental image or "feel" for this would be to picture a waiter carrying a tray over his right shoulder.

May work for some, not a requirement. I don't feel anything like that at all.

You're a much better golfer than I am

What I meant by the post is that I can't seem to achieve a flat left wrist at the top, even with my best swing, so it's something I need to work on.

My swing gets too steep and I cut across the ball. I think one of the ways to fix it is to get more of a bow in my wrist, but anything I've tried so far to change that hasn't worked.

Not really a requirement. You should only need to worry about the backswing if you are doing something that is really hampering your swing. Also, what type of grip you have will effect how the club is at the top of the swing. So I wouldn't worry about it to much. If you are taking the club back at good turn rate, and don't get the club to far inside your hands, you'll be fine at the top. Its really hard to cup the club or bow the wrist when you do things correctly from address to the top.

[billchao]

Not really a requirement. You should only need to worry about the backswing if you are doing something that is really hampering your swing. Also, what type of grip you have will effect how the club is at the top of the swing. So I wouldn't worry about it to much. If you are taking the club back at good turn rate, and don't get the club to far inside your hands, you'll be fine at the top. Its really hard to cup the club or bow the wrist when you do things correctly from address to the top.

So you're saying that my wrists breaking down at times is due to my turning rates? I think I can wrap my head around that. I've made significant changes to my swing in a short amount of time, so it makes perfect sense that I'm not doing everything the right way on every swing.

[saevel25]

No, I am just saying that there are other things that are more important than worrying about your wrists at the top. Usually fixing something else will fix what your hands do. The hands are primarily are reactive. Meaning they adjust to poor positions in the swing. Example if a golfer doesn't get his weight forward enough at impact the hands flip. If the hands are cupping or bowing at the top, it could be caused by a few things. Basically fix the major issues first, if you have any, and then see what the hands are doing. Fixing things tend to help get the hands in a better position. Like getting the clubhead more inline or outside the hands in the backswing helps the position at the top. Getting the weight forward and maintaining a steady head will help get the hands more forward at impact. Things are interconnected, and you get some fixes for free if you work on the correct things.

I can't say what you are doing or not, I haven't seen your swing in person or video.

[colin007]

I can relate to that.

Since my natural tendency is to cup my wrist, I should make a conscious effort to bow it, right? The end result should be somewhere in the middle?

saevel is giving you good info, everything is interconnected.

as for bowing, it might be better to feel your right hand more directly under the grip at the top than the waiter image.  whatever works for you.

[billchao]

No, I am just saying that there are other things that are more important than worrying about your wrists at the top. Usually fixing something else will fix what your hands do. The hands are primarily are reactive. Meaning they adjust to poor positions in the swing.

I think I understand what you're saying. I went back over my video archive of my old swings and it looks like I really only have a problem with the wrists when I overswing. When I fixed that, like you said, the hands fixed themselves.

I can't say what you are doing or not, I haven't seen your swing in person or video.

I do have a My Swing thread, I'll link it here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/70666/my-swing-billchao . You don't have to look at it if you don't want to; you've already been really informative and helpful, so thank you.

Also, I think I managed to hijack and derail my own thread...so the consensus on pressure points is not to worry about them, right?

[mvmac]

So, my question is, should I be actively squeezing them? Should I grip the club tighter so I can feel 1, 2, and 3 more? Should I squeeze the arms more to feel more 4 (and 5)? Is this one of those "depends on the individual" situations, or should everyone feel some sort of pressure (for lack of a better term) on the pressure points?

I'd describe myself at address as relaxed, even borderline lazy feeling. Is that too loose?

They are more "contact" points than pressure points.  You are not actively squeezing your arms on your pecs, not actively squeezing the fingers on the grip.  During the swing, hell yeah there is a ton of force being applied to the golf club/grip/shaft but it's not something where you go, "Ok now it's time to activate pressure point 3".

I feel the placement of certain pressure points are important, mostly the grip ones, because it corresponds with how the player "senses" the sweetspot and how the wrist angles load and unload.  Why you will tend to see us identify and fix palmy grips, just makes things much easier.

[billchao]

They are more "contact" points than pressure points.  You are not actively squeezing your arms on your pecs, not actively squeezing the fingers on the grip.  During the swing, hell yeah there is a ton of force being applied to the golf club/grip/shaft but it's not something where you go, "Ok now it's time to activate pressure point 3". I feel the placement of certain pressure points are important, mostly the grip ones, because it corresponds with how the player "senses" the sweetspot and how the wrist angles load and unload.  Why you will tend to see us identify and fix palmy grips, just makes things much easier.

Thanks, Mike. This is pretty much what everyone else was saying, too. I'm not gonna think about it anymore.

[dchoye]

I havent thought about this topic after a tour pro told me that where ever you the torque of the clubshaft in the hands at impact is essential your pressure points. So they are passive in nature.

However Though lately I been swinigng really well and notice that I will "anticipate" the pressure point.

The ones I feel are right forefinger which seems to correspond to PP3 especially with my irons.

However I also feel it at my right ring finger and right little finger too at impact for other clubs that do not correspond to the textbook PP.

[mvmac]

I havent thought about this topic after a tour pro told me that where ever you the torque of the clubshaft in the hands at impact is essential your pressure points. So they are passive in nature.

However Though lately I been swinigng really well and notice that I will "anticipate" the pressure point.

The ones I feel are right forefinger which seems to correspond to PP3 especially with my irons.

However I also feel it at my right ring finger and right little finger too at impact for other clubs that do not correspond to the textbook PP.

Yeah, I think this is more of a feel than how you actually torque the shaft.

[dchoye]

Just an update, my pressure points for my irons suddenly changed to my right middle finger or middle finger depending on the height that I plan to hit my irons from PP3. Not sure how relevant those "textbook PP" are. May work for some people only Look at the right hand of Couples, Singh, Michelson at impact with their driver. Their right hand appears to be almost completely off the handle and they hit their drivers extremely long.

[mvmac]

Not sure how relevant those "textbook PP" are. May work for some people only

Again, it's more of a feel thing than reality.

Look at the right hand of Couples, Singh, Michelson at impact with their driver. Their right hand appears to be almost completely off the handle and they hit their drivers extremely long.

Is there a 5th Power Accumulator?

[dchoye]

Again, it's more of a feel thing than reality. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/44717/is-there-a-5th-power-accumulator]Is there a 5th Power Accumulator?[/URL][COLOR=181818] [/COLOR]

I suppose if you subscribe to the whole "accumulator " concept. But I think made my game worse believing that accumulators as describe in TGM was the end all B all TGM is not and I'm not wasting my time reading up so called "accumulators "

[iacas]

I suppose if you subscribe to the whole "accumulator " concept. But I think made my game worse believing that accumulators as describe in TGM was the end all B all

TGM is not and I'm not wasting my time reading up so called "accumulators "

There's not really something to "subscribe to." If you thought they were the "end all be all" then you were misleading yourself.

Okay, don't read the thread. Your loss. You seem to continually ignore the information that's here. That's totally fine, but… you're going to keep getting threads as answers when you ask questions.

Pressure points are related to accumulators. So that's what this thread is going to discuss.

[dchoye]

Whatever pressure is felt at the hands during CF at impact would be pressure points. I really don't think there is only 4 The problem with the right forefinger is that when I swing well I feel it pressure on my middle +right ring finger right hand. Hogan says he felt that right forefinger and thumb are swing wreckers and not necessary How can left armpit be a pressure point? It's not directly touching the shaft. Pressure points should be in the fingers or palms to avoid confusion. What can't I say then my left elbow is s pressure point too ? I agree with last three fingers of the left hand. That's generally what every golfer agrees as well Why can't the left thumb be a pressure point Why is it only the right palm where it presses on the left thumb??? Or right palm on the shaft????? Isn't it the left thumb a pressure points No one really has answers to these question instead goes off on a tangent about TGM which IMO makes the TGM incomplete

[GolfLug]

My grip is unique compared to most in some ways but in general 'pressure points' at address are nothing more than the parts of palm and fingers (whatever they are for YOUR swing) are simply parts supporting the WEIGHT of the club and hence other than supporting the weight they should be passive. 'Active' in my book is consciously applying pressure or squeezing which could reduce the shaft angle change to forearm throughout the swing. As far as I know this angle changes in a 'free-flowing' swing very easily simply reacting to directional momentum of the club (that's why you can't DO/CREATE lag - it just happens). So really should not be 'active' at address and will activate (reactively) to accumulators loading and unloading as needed throughout the swing.

FWIW, I don't wear a glove and have no callouses and can take me 10+ seconds sometimes to find the right 'weight' feel at address before I pull the trigger. I am dead if I squeeze even a bit.

Pressure points are related to accumulators.

Si.

[mvmac]

Whatever pressure is felt at the hands during CF at impact would be pressure points. I really don't think there is only 4.

How can left armpit be a pressure point? It's not directly touching the shaft. Pressure points should be in the fingers or palms to avoid confusion. What can't I say then my left elbow is s pressure point too ?

Yeah that's why I tend to think of them more as "contact points" than pressure points, the "points" don't always have to be active. Left arm is a pressure point per TGM because it relates to PA #4.

I agree with last three fingers of the left hand. That's generally what every golfer agrees as well

Why can't the left thumb be a pressure point Why is it only the right palm where it presses on the left thumb??? Or right palm on the shaft????? Isn't it the left thumb a pressure points

With Mac there are something like 16 pressure points in the right hand and 19 in the left. But he's crazy so....

[dchoye]

L[quote name="mvmac" url="/t/72199/are-pressure-points-active-or-passive-at-address/30#post_1176373"] Yeah that's why I tend to think of them more as "contact points" than pressure points, the "points" don't always have to be active. Left arm is a pressure point per TGM because it relates to PA #4. With Mac there are something like 16 pressure points in the right hand and 19 in the left. But he's crazy so....;-) [/quote] 16? And 19? Whoa. That is crazy. When I hitting the ball off the turf I can definitely feel pressure points where the shaft swings I have a few favorite ones usually one or two fingers that I can feel the shaft as it exits at contact. Contact point is a great term. With the tee ball I been feeling like the club stays thru the ball fraction longer before exiting to the follow thru I don't feel single finger pressure points like I would swinging ball off the turf. I feel contact points when driving mostly across the left hand from the base of the first finger to the heel pad I think this would handle the emense swing speed with the driver. With these contact points I think I like to keep the pressure as long as possible as it feels more like a straight line drive than a sudden change in direction swing