Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham

[Harmonious]

Not 8 uneducated people 5,000 years ago.

Careful. You could say the pyramids and Stonehenge were built by uneducated people, too. They seemed to have done OK.

[iacas]

They might have even had some casting/forging capabilities. ~10,000 years ago people of the bronze age were casting primitive spear heads and hammers.

Before the earth even existed!!!???

[Slice of Life]

Here are some hypothetical possibilities:

If a person, like Noah, could have spent about 120 years building this boat, who knows if it was possible or not? What if "Noah" was a scholarly society?

There are a lot of logistics about taking this long to build a boat this large. One of them is worrying the wood rotting on the completed portions. I don't know too much about gopher wood. Presumably, he could have scouted out the rain forests to look for exotic woods for the frame and the hull.

He probably had bronze for saws and drills. He could have used it for the pins to hold the wood together. A Bronze drill bit would be able to drill through mahogany or ironwood if you sharpen it often enough.

He could have used copper plating for the bottom to seal it from the dirt and the bacteria that would eat away at the hull during construction.

Bronze and iron were most likely available for parts of the frame to hold the wood together like strong ties are used for houses now. Iron would need to be kept oiled and dry.

They might have even had some casting/forging capabilities. ~10,000 years ago people of the bronze age were casting primitive spear heads and hammers.

It would take a lot of innovation at the time to make all this happen, and is remotely possible. For example, Leonardo Da Vinci created many inventions in his short 67 year life, and it's possible that Noah could have been just as clever (or more so) and even built primitive steam engines for cranes and hydraulic presses to bend the wood into the hull.

The inventions could have been immediately lost after the death of Noah. People burned books and innovations all throughout history, so it's possible that there was some serious technology developed then lost.

Who really knows? If we make the assumption that someone (or a society) could live 1000 years, a lot of things could happen.

Just image if a group of engineers were thrust on an island and given all basic needs and any raw material they desired. Could they build an Ark like object in 120 years? I think they could build modern city and fly off the island sooner than that.

Hypothetically, of course.

Here's a hole in your hypothetical...

People very very very rarely live to 120 now with advanced medicine....they sure as hell didn't 5,000 years ago. You can't make an assumption that people could live for 1,000 years, because they couldn't. That's like saying people could have been giants, so really maybe the boat was like a toy to him...and maybe animals were miniature back then, so they all fit in a 100 square foot space.

You could throw hypotheticals around all day...doesn't mean they make any sense, or are at all logical. You could say that he invented a time machine, used solidworks to design it, and brought back a couple engineers from the future as well as a power plant, modern tools, and a bunch of craftsmen...but that's also preposterous.

[Slice of Life]

Careful. You could say the pyramids and Stonehenge were built by uneducated people, too. They seemed to have done OK.

The pyramids didn't need to float on water, while carrying two of every animal on the planet. There were also thousands of men building the pyramids, and it took them 20 years per pyramid. The engineering scope between the two is bigger than the alleged ark.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I don't see why it couldn't.  I mean, if they can make this thing float ...

P.S.  It looks like its just going to be an attraction at a theme park ... I don't think it necessarily has to float anyway.

You missed my point. That boat was designed by professional engineers with modern technology and many, many skilled craftsmen. Not 8 uneducated people 5,000 years ago.

He didn't miss your point. That's one big monster that just should not have worked, at all.

At first, I thought he was saying that the luxury liner was going to be an amusement park ride. . .

[Golfingdad]

Here's a hole in your hypothetical...

People very very very rarely live to 120 now with advanced medicine....they sure as hell didn't 5,000 years ago. You can't make an assumption that people could live for 1,000 years, because they couldn't. That's like saying people could have been giants, so really maybe the boat was like a toy to him...and maybe animals were miniature back then, so they all fit in a 100 square foot space.

You could throw hypotheticals around all day...doesn't mean they make any sense, or are at all logical. You could say that he invented a time machine, used solidworks to design it, and brought back a couple engineers from the future as well as a power plant, modern tools, and a bunch of craftsmen...but that's also preposterous.

Why would it have to be the same people on the project from beginning to end?

[Slice of Life]

Why would it have to be the same people on the project from beginning to end?

Because the bible says so. It says that Noah lived to be 1,000, and he built the ark. Hell, he didn't have his first kid until he was what...500? Completely logical...

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Careful. You could say the pyramids and Stonehenge were built by uneducated people, too. They seemed to have done OK.

The pyramids didn't need to float on water, while carrying two of every animal on the planet. There were also thousands of men building the pyramids, and it took them 20 years per pyramid. The engineering scope between the two is bigger than the alleged ark.

Actually, I was thinking that they were storing the DNA of the animals in cryogenic chambers. They used coal burning steam powered bronze pumps to pressurize nitrogen to liquid state and had desalinization and power at the same time.

Plus, this was a barge. It wasn't like they had a specific destination to reach. So, they didn't need a large hold for the coal. It was just for power and fresh water.

[Slice of Life]

Actually, I was thinking that they were storing the DNA of the animals in cryogenic chambers. They used coal burning steam powered bronze pumps to pressurize nitrogen to liquid state and had desalinization and power at the same time.

Plus, this was a barge. It wasn't like they had a specific destination to reach. So, they didn't need a large hold for the coal. It was just for power and fresh water.

lol

You're really going all out on your hypothetical scenario, aye?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Why would it have to be the same people on the project from beginning to end?

Because the bible says so. It says that Noah lived to be 1,000, and he built the ark. Hell, he didn't have his first kid until he was what...500? Completely logical...

Noah could be an acronym for a society of inventors in ancient Hebrew.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Actually, I was thinking that they were storing the DNA of the animals in cryogenic chambers. They used coal burning steam powered bronze pumps to pressurize nitrogen to liquid state and had desalinization and power at the same time.

Plus, this was a barge. It wasn't like they had a specific destination to reach. So, they didn't need a large hold for the coal. It was just for power and fresh water.

lol

You're really going all out on your hypothetical scenario, aye?

Hey, it's possible. Probability? Maybe, 6 sigma, but possible.

If even a handful of us engineers from TST were to be put in the scenario I presented, we probably could design an airplane and tools needed to build and test it in a couple decades.

[Slice of Life]

Hey, it's possible. Probability? Maybe, 6 sigma, but possible.

If even a handful of us engineers from TST were to be put in the scenario I presented, we probably could design an airplane and tools needed to build and test it in a couple decades.

The probability is equivalent to me beating Tiger Woods in match play, with him playing the best he's ever played and me playing...well...like me.

[Slice of Life]

Noah could be an acronym for a society of inventors in ancient Hebrew.

Which would again provide even more proof that you can't take anything in the bible literally, and shatter creationism.

[Golfingdad]

Which would again provide even more proof that you can't take anything in the bible literally, and shatter creationism.

So?  Would that make the museum any less interesting?  Or the idea of a giant Ark theme park any less cool?

I don't think I'm going to be flying around in space in a a convertible car or floating through the middle of a pirate battle anytime soon.  And Disneyland would not be any less fun if you told me that a giant talking mouse wasn't real either.

So why does that matter?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Which would again provide even more proof that you can't take anything in the bible literally, and shatter creationism.

So?  Would that make the museum any less interesting?  Or the idea of a giant Ark theme park any less cool?

I don't think I'm going to be flying around in space in a a convertible car or floating through the middle of a pirate battle anytime soon.  And Disneyland would not be any less fun if you told me that a giant talking mouse wasn't real either.

So why does that matter?

Exactly. I would visit it for sure.

Kentucky also has some really beautiful and welcoming golf courses.

I have a funny story about the giant talking mouse. My son and daughter were 4 and 3 years old when they were standing in Minnie Mouse's house. There were several other families there at the same time as well, and my son declares "Everything is fake! The microwave and other appliances don't work, they're all plastic toys." This somewhat surprised the other families. The other parents were protectively holding their children as if he also declared that there was no Santa Claus.

So my daughter stared at everything. Looked carefully around and simply said "Oh, yeah. But Minnie wouldn't want any of the kids to get hurt with the real stuff." Thus breaking the uneasy tension that formed. The other parents then quickly released their kids from their protective grips. My son just slapped his hand to his forehead, but it was over.

[Slice of Life]

So?  Would that make the museum any less interesting?  Or the idea of a giant Ark theme park any less cool? I don't think I'm going to be flying around in space in a a convertible car or floating through the middle of a pirate battle anytime soon.  And Disneyland would not be any less fun if you told me that a giant talking mouse wasn't real either. So why does that matter?

Ok, now I'm positive we're debating different things. The ark will be awesome to see and I'm sure the museum is interesting. I'm still debating Noah and 7 friends building the worlds largest boat just after his 600th birthday lol.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

So?  Would that make the museum any less interesting?  Or the idea of a giant Ark theme park any less cool?

I don't think I'm going to be flying around in space in a a convertible car or floating through the middle of a pirate battle anytime soon.  And Disneyland would not be any less fun if you told me that a giant talking mouse wasn't real either.

So why does that matter?

Ok, now I'm positive we're debating different things. The ark will be awesome to see and I'm sure the museum is interesting. I'm still debating Noah and 7 friends building the worlds largest boat just after his 600th birthday lol.

The Bible just states that Noah is to build an Ark of "Some material", he could have had 20,000+ workers for all we know.

We only remember and write about the leaders of people who did great things. Like the Pyramids of Giza, we pretty much know for whom they were built and in some cases who was the architect. It's not like we would remember the worker pushing that last block up onto the top of the pyramid, or even how many workers there were.

So, it's very likely that Noah had many workers.

[Golfingdad]

Ok, now I'm positive we're debating different things. The ark will be awesome to see and I'm sure the museum is interesting. I'm still debating Noah and 7 friends building the worlds largest boat just after his 600th birthday lol.

Dude, get your facts right!

First, the Bible does not teach that Noah was 900 years old when he constructed the Ark. He lived for 350 years after the Flood began and died at 950 (Genesis 9:28–29). The Flood began in his 600th year (Genesis 7:11), and he undoubtedly spent several years constructing the Ark prior to this, so he would have been in his 500s while building the Ark (Genesis 5:32).

Nobody said that he was in his 600's while building it - that would be ludicrous.  He was only in his 500's!!

But yes ... @Lihu posted an article about the construction of a new ark/them park, and that is all that I was really talking about.  :)