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Chipping on the green.


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One is not permitted to use a non-conforming club.

Here's a question (that may have been addressed previously) - in stroke play, a player begins his round with 15 clubs, one of which is non-conforming. The error is discovered during play of the first hole and he has not made a stroke with the non-conforming club. How many penalty strokes will be assigned to the player and why?

Either 2, or 2, or 2+2?

Since the 15th and the non-conforming might well be to be one and the same.

I'll give him only 2 ps.

(I feel like I've reeled in by the Bean or Newby :)

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
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"You may use any club in your bag from any place on the course." I can think of one instance when that statement might not apply. There must (or may) be others.

.

Have I missed your answer?

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Have I missed your answer?

He was playing word games.

Actually referring to places on the course where you aren't allowed to play at all.  Not any place that where you would be required to use one specific club, or forbidden to use another.

Foul..... ;-)

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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One is not permitted to use a non-conforming club.

Here's a question (that may have been addressed previously) - in stroke play, a player begins his round with 15 clubs, one of which is non-conforming. The error is discovered during play of the first hole and he has not made a stroke with the non-conforming club. How many penalty strokes will be assigned to the player and why?

Near as I can tell from D 1-4/12 (point 2), while 2 rules were breached by the same act of carrying an extra and nonconforming club, only a single penalty is applied.  2 penalty strokes in stroke play, or 1 hole lost in match play, are assessed and the nonconforming club must be declared out of play prior to playing from the 2nd tee.  If any other club is declared out of play to satisfy the 14 club rule, and the nonconforming club is discovered after playing from the 2nd tee, then the penalty would be upped to 4 strokes, or 2 holes lost in match play.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

"You may use any club in your bag from any place on the course." I can think of one instance when that statement might not apply. There must (or may) be others.

.

Have I missed your answer?

My first thought was wrong putting green. David suggested adding ESA to the list which then led to a third ... GUR from which play is prohibited.

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

My first thought was wrong putting green. David suggested adding ESA to the list which then led to a third ... GUR from which play is prohibited.

Ingenious interpretation

You're under water and we're under snow ... gotta do something! Cheers.

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
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Near as I can tell from D 1-4/12 (point 2), while 2 rules were breached by the same act of carrying an extra and nonconforming club, only a single penalty is applied.  2 penalty strokes in stroke play, or 1 hole lost in match play, are assessed and the nonconforming club must be declared out of play prior to playing from the 2nd tee.  If any other club is declared out of play to satisfy the 14 club rule, and the nonconforming club is discovered after playing from the 2nd tee, then the penalty would be upped to 4 strokes, or 2 holes lost in match play

Either 2, or 2, or 2+2?

Since the 15th and the non-conforming might well be to be one and the same.

I'll give him only 2 ps.

(I feel like I've reeled in by the Bean or Newby :)

Something to think about.  The player has 15 clubs; the player is carrying a non-conforming club.  What makes a breach of Rule 4-1 and a breach of Rule  4-4 multiple breaches of the same Rule?

What makes the non-conforming club the same as the 15th club?  The player's decision as to which of his 15 clubs he will take out of play comes after the breach of the Rule. Can we predetermine that had it not been established that one was non-conforming which of the 15 he would choose?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Near as I can tell from D 1-4/12 (point 2), while 2 rules were breached by the same act of carrying an extra and nonconforming club, only a single penalty is applied.  2 penalty strokes in stroke play, or 1 hole lost in match play, are assessed and the nonconforming club must be declared out of play prior to playing from the 2nd tee.  If any other club is declared out of play to satisfy the 14 club rule, and the nonconforming club is discovered after playing from the 2nd tee, then the penalty would be upped to 4 strokes, or 2 holes lost in match play

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Either 2, or 2, or 2+2?

Since the 15th and the non-conforming might well be to be one and the same.

I'll give him only 2 ps.

(I feel like I've reeled in by the Bean or Newby :)

Something to think about.  The player has 15 clubs; the player is carrying a non-conforming club.  What makes a breach of Rule 4-1 and a breach of Rule  4-4 multiple breaches of the same Rule?

What makes the non-conforming club the same as the 15th club?  The player's decision as to which of his 15 clubs he will take out of play comes after the breach of the Rule. Can we predetermine that had it not been established that one was non-conforming which of the 15 he would choose?

We can't really know given the facts presented. Rogolf's scenario is well within the realm of possibility, isn't it? It is not difficult to imagine the player rushing from the range to the first tee to make his starting time and failing to remove some nonconforming club like a Medicus from his bag. That's what caused me to guess only a 2 sp.

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
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Does it matter how the non-conforming club came to be  in his bag?  The point is that he had one . Breach of Rule 4-1 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  Additionally, he is discovered to have 15 clubs in his bag. Breach of Rule 4-4 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  There is no way in which we can pre-determine that the 15th club is the non-confoming one and say it is a multiple breach of the same rule.  These are separate breaches of separate rules.  It sadly  adds up to a 4 stroke penalty.

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Does it matter how the non-conforming club came to be  in his bag?  The point is that he had one . Breach of Rule 4-1 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  Additionally, he is discovered to have 15 clubs in his bag. Breach of Rule 4-4 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  There is no way in which we can pre-determine that the 15th club is the non-confoming one and say it is a multiple breach of the same rule.  These are separate breaches of separate rules.  It sadly  adds up to a 4 stroke penalty.

Colin has the correct answer - the player is penalized 4 strokes for beginning his round with more than 14 clubs and a non-conforming club - breaches of Rule 4-1 and 4-4. It does not matter which club was the "15th", it's only the total that matters. Of course, the smart player would immediately declare the non-conforming club out of play, but maybe there are others who wouldn't..... ;)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ColinL

Does it matter how the non-conforming club came to be  in his bag?  The point is that he had one . Breach of Rule 4-1 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  Additionally, he is discovered to have 15 clubs in his bag. Breach of Rule 4-4 leading to a 2 stroke penalty.  There is no way in which we can pre-determine that the 15th club is the non-confoming one and say it is a multiple breach of the same rule.  These are separate breaches of separate rules.  It sadly  adds up to a 4 stroke penalty.

Colin has the correct answer - the player is penalized 4 strokes for beginning his round with more than 14 clubs and a non-conforming club - breaches of Rule 4-1 and 4-4. It does not matter which club was the "15th", it's only the total that matters. Of course, the smart player would immediately declare the non-conforming club out of play, but maybe there are others who wouldn't..... ;)

Thanks, rogolf. I can see that situation as possible. Nice to know the harsh truth!

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
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Here in Hong Kong we have numerous tiny personal graveyards established prior to the building of the golf course. These are marked in blue and mandate 'no play'. Drop as a GUR.

On greens?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by joekelly

Here in Hong Kong we have numerous tiny personal graveyards established prior to the building of the golf course. These are marked in blue and mandate 'no play'. Drop as a GUR.

On greens?

Boy, has this thread ever gone off topic!  What do graveyards have to do with chipping on the green? :offtopic:

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Note: This thread is 3688 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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