Directed Force Putters

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, billchao said:

It's because a number of us are generally skeptical by nature. Aggressive marketing doesn't make me think, "Wow, that product must be awesome if so many people are raving about it." What it really does is makes me wonder why they have to try so hard to convince me their product is good in the first place.

None of the people praising this putter are established members of this site and I'm not going to buy anything based on their testimonials. 

I don't see a problem with these guys providing factual information about a product in a thread, but agree they will have an simpler and likely more effective time of it if they pony up with a sponsorship.

[cmherrbach]

On 11/6/2015 at 11:26 AM, natureboy said:

 

While I am genuinely curious about information on the product and consider the flat lie angles a real plus feature, the heavy testimonial guerilla marketing approach in this thread actually hurts credibility for this very 'show me' site. But I'm not a big fan of the bashing and 'give me a free putter' posts either.

Looks like they are scheduled to be at the PGA show in Orlando.  I can't seem to find the booth number, but I plan on stopping by to see if I can get some more information.  Anyone else headed to the show in a couple of weeks? I've never been before,  pretty excited. 

 

Edited: booth number 1113. http://www.pgashow.com/en/Exhibitors/1032532/Directed-Force-Putters-Press-Grips

Edited January 11, 2016 by cmherrbach

[SavvySwede]

13 minutes ago, cmherrbach said:

Looks like they are scheduled to be at the PGA show in Orlando.  I can't seem to find the booth number, but I plan on stopping by to see if I can get some more information.  Anyone else headed to the show in a couple of weeks? I've never been before,  pretty excited. 

 

Edited: booth number 1113. http://www.pgashow.com/en/Exhibitors/1032532/Directed-Force-Putters-Press-Grips

Back to talk about DFP eh? This shilling has got to stop. Why would you even need more information? You already have the flippin' putter as you've mentioned plenty already. But do not worry I will be at the PGA show and will check it out.

[dkolo]

2 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

Back to talk about DFP eh? This shilling has got to stop. Why would you even need more information? You already have the flippin' putter as you've mentioned plenty already. But do not worry I will be at the PGA show and will check it out.

It's embarrassing that this company has to keep resorting to this kind of conduct because their product isn't good enough to stand on its own.

[cmherrbach]

On 1/11/2016 at 2:37 PM, SavvySwede said:

Back to talk about DFP eh? This shilling has got to stop. Why would you even need more information? You already have the flippin' putter as you've mentioned plenty already. But do not worry I will be at the PGA show and will check it out.

Yes,  I am back to talk about the directed force putter.  This is a golf forum, is it not? I tell you what,  I haven't felt this unwelcome since I accidentally walked into the ladies locker room in junior high school.  j/k

More information as in what they have planned for the future is what I am looking for. Will they have other models?  Is it only going to be a mallet, etc.

 

As far as shilling goes,  wouldn't that require me to be affiliated with the company?  Guess what,  I'm going to be talking about the new ping offerings in another thread later today.  I worked for them for a few years,  so will that be shilling?  I don't work for them anymore as I have moved on to bigger things in life. 

[cmherrbach]

On 1/11/2016 at 4:43 PM, dkolo said:

It's embarrassing that this company has to keep resorting to this kind of conduct because their product isn't good enough to stand on its own.

So,  you claim a club is not good enough to stand on its own without trying it? Not sure I'm following the logic there.  

 

So,  I'm trying to figure out at what point do I get to post about a club on this forum without the pitchforks coming out?  Can I post about MannKrafted putters?  Or does lamont need to send you free clubs for someone to mention them in your golf forum? 

[iacas]

On 1/14/2016 at 11:19 AM, cmherrbach said:

So,  you claim a club is not good enough to stand on its own without trying it? Not sure I'm following the logic there.

I think he's basing this on the fact that… it's a putter. There's not a whole lot of complicated physics going on there, nor is there any type of magical putter that can improve upon the idea or act of putting by any remarkable measure.

I'm open to being proven wrong, but on this topic, I'm willing to bet quite a bit that I'm not.

On 1/14/2016 at 11:19 AM, cmherrbach said:

So,  I'm trying to figure out at what point do I get to post about a club on this forum without the pitchforks coming out?  Can I post about MannKrafted putters?  Or does lamont need to send you free clubs for someone to mention them in your golf forum? 

It's really very simple. You only seem to have posted in other threads just enough to claim that you don't post exclusively about this putter. If you're on here just to promote and talk about this one thing, it's seen as "not good."

I submitted an offer through @Matt Holm PGA and he's taking it to the Directed Force people in charge, but long story short, DF needs to stop taking advantage of the hard work, effort, and money that went into building TST and taking without giving anything back.

You're not just a regular golfer coming here to talk about something you like, @cmherrbach. That's been made pretty obvious. Thousands of others do that every year, and without any problems.

I do not like "moderating in public" so to speak, so if you have more to say about the above, send me a PM. Don't post it here… it is not going to help you or the DF company.

[dkolo]

49 minutes ago, cmherrbach said:

So,  you claim a club is not good enough to stand on its own without trying it? Not sure I'm following the logic there.

It's extraordinarily simple logic. The company behind this putter has resorted to ginning up an Astroturf marketing campaign of trying to build awareness of their product through the use of dishonest shills talking up their product on golf forums. The reason they do this is because they can't convince enough (any?) venture capital of the validity of the product to have money to pay for legitimate advertising. Or they're just going this way because it's the only way they can convince consumers their products are good when they could just give them the opportunity to try them instead. Either way, it doesn't speak to any way in which this product stands on its own.

50 minutes ago, cmherrbach said:

So,  I'm trying to figure out at what point do I get to post about a club on this forum without the pitchforks coming out?  Can I post about MannKrafted putters?  Or does lamont need to send you free clubs for someone to mention them in your golf forum? 

I don't know, but you haven't gotten there. Considering the history of this company having people set up fake accounts to shill for this product on here, despite that being against the Terms & Conditions you agree to when signing up, and despite it being generally dishonest, I'd say most everyone on here views this company as a toxic brand at this point, not unlike how Warrior Custom Golf turned off everyone with their dishonest business practices.

4 hours ago, cmherrbach said:

As far as shilling goes,  wouldn't that require me to be affiliated with the company?  Guess what,  I'm going to be talking about the new ping offerings in another thread later today.  I worked for them for a few years,  so will that be shilling?  I don't work for them anymore as I have moved on to bigger things in life. 

I don't believe you when you say you're not affiliated with this company. This Directed Force Putters brand has a history of sending out shills, and I believe you're one of them, as fully half of your posts have been about this thing and, like @iacas said, your unrelated posts have seemed like just enough to satisfy the requirement of posting about other stuff to not get banned. 

The way this works is, if you have a product you're interested in, you go to people you know and have a reputation with and tell them something about it. We don't know you and have no reason to put any weight behind your claims. The reason we ask people to post elsewhere is so that we get to know them and develop trust. If someone who's joined a few months ago and has become part of the community shared information about a product they've become interested in, everyone would listen. Instead, this comes off as marketing and trying to steal goodwill from the owners of the site. Pay for a sponsorship or stop pushing the product here. It's really straightforward.

[cmherrbach]

1 hour ago, dkolo said:

It's extraordinarily simple logic. The company behind this putter has resorted to ginning up an Astroturf marketing campaign of trying to build awareness of their product through the use of dishonest shills talking up their product on golf forums. The reason they do this is because they can't convince enough (any?) venture capital of the validity of the product to have money to pay for legitimate advertising. Or they're just going this way because it's the only way they can convince consumers their products are good when they could just give them the opportunity to try them instead. Either way, it doesn't speak to any way in which this product stands on its own.

I don't know, but you haven't gotten there. Considering the history of this company having people set up fake accounts to shill for this product on here, despite that being against the Terms & Conditions you agree to when signing up, and despite it being generally dishonest, I'd say most everyone on here views this company as a toxic brand at this point, not unlike how Warrior Custom Golf turned off everyone with their dishonest business practices.

I don't believe you when you say you're not affiliated with this company. This Directed Force Putters brand has a history of sending out shills, and I believe you're one of them, as fully half of your posts have been about this thing and, like @iacas said, your unrelated posts have seemed like just enough to satisfy the requirement of posting about other stuff to not get banned. 

The way this works is, if you have a product you're interested in, you go to people you know and have a reputation with and tell them something about it. We don't know you and have no reason to put any weight behind your claims. The reason we ask people to post elsewhere is so that we get to know them and develop trust. If someone who's joined a few months ago and has become part of the community shared information about a product they've become interested in, everyone would listen. Instead, this comes off as marketing and trying to steal goodwill from the owners of the site. Pay for a sponsorship or stop pushing the product here. It's really straightforward.

Well, like I said before, I love the game, I am excited about new equipment, and unfortunately I happen to have hit a sore spot here with this community. I will simply wait for some of you "vetted" members to post their reviews of the putter once they have a chance to try it. I apologize for ruffling feathers. 

 

[Hack2putt]

6 hours ago, dkolo said:

It's extraordinarily simple logic. The company behind this putter has resorted to ginning up an Astroturf marketing campaign of trying to build awareness of their product through the use of dishonest shills talking up their product on golf forums. The reason they do this is because they can't convince enough (any?) venture capital of the validity of the product to have money to pay for legitimate advertising. Or they're just going this way because it's the only way they can convince consumers their products are good when they could just give them the opportunity to try them instead. Either way, it doesn't speak to any way in which this product stands on its own.

I don't know, but you haven't gotten there. Considering the history of this company having people set up fake accounts to shill for this product on here, despite that being against the Terms & Conditions you agree to when signing up, and despite it being generally dishonest, I'd say most everyone on here views this company as a toxic brand at this point, not unlike how Warrior Custom Golf turned off everyone with their dishonest business practices.

I don't believe you when you say you're not affiliated with this company. This Directed Force Putters brand has a history of sending out shills, and I believe you're one of them, as fully half of your posts have been about this thing and, like @iacas said, your unrelated posts have seemed like just enough to satisfy the requirement of posting about other stuff to not get banned. 

The way this works is, if you have a product you're interested in, you go to people you know and have a reputation with and tell them something about it. We don't know you and have no reason to put any weight behind your claims. The reason we ask people to post elsewhere is so that we get to know them and develop trust. If someone who's joined a few months ago and has become part of the community shared information about a product they've become interested in, everyone would listen. Instead, this comes off as marketing and trying to steal goodwill from the owners of the site. Pay for a sponsorship or stop pushing the product here. It's really straightforward.

Dear sir, I am the inventor and owner of Directed Force Putters and Press Grips. I tried to be open and honest earlier in the thread and then got very busy doing putting seminars and demonstrations and building putters as well as being a widowed single parent.  I can promise you that know one from my company has set up 'fake accounts' or have I authorized or promoted anyone to do 'shilling' . I don't have time or energy to police what people say good bad or indifferent about my products on blogs, and am quite frankly pretty insulted of the things that are being said here on this site.  I was recently made aware of how this thread spiraled into the ground. At one point I was ready to do some sponsoring but after reading all these posts I'm less than enthused to do so anymore. I have spent hundreds of thousands patenting , buying dies and cnc's and inventing a putter and a grip that feels and rolls great so that players much like yourself might make more putts and have more fun playing and help grow the game. In real world testing has already proven itself a winner and countless PGA professional agree and have already put that in writing.  I don't pay anyone to use it however it won the NorCal senior PGA stroke play championship, the Sierra Nevada Chapter PGA Match play Championship (and many more than I'm not going to list) as well as countless First Tee, Drive chip and Putt and US kids golf championships, and will be played in the senior PGA championship and you will see it on the PGA tour most likely this year. If you or any one on this blog including the administrators have something to say or complain about please feel free to contact me at bill@directedforce.com. A full retraction of said accusations without warrant or proof would be appreciated. I have contributed 30 years to the golf business, I have two degrees in golf from the SDGA, low medalist PAT, owned a tour trailer and have done club repair fittings and swing analysts for 30 plus PGA Tour players, well over 40,000 lessons as well as being a Director of Instuction for many years working with bio motion sensors. I resigned from the PGA many years ago because of a family tragedy but stayed in the industry because of my passion to grow the game by helping players play better and score better. Dragging my name and company threw the dirt is a slap in the face. Sincerely Bill Presse IV

[David in FL]

40,000 lessons is a 1 hour lesson every 90 minutes, 9 hours every day, 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year, for over 25 years.

Damn, where did you even find time eat, let alone develop the putter?!

 

[Hack2putt]

Yeah good math but I teach/thought  half hour lessons, 2000-2500 per year Golftec, not including clinics, I worked I arsh off. It's not uncommon for top instructors to teach 2500 + per year with Golftec if you have a great referral client base. 

[iacas]

Bill, I'll just say two things, and be done.

You've been a registered user here since 2013, and you've never reached out to us here about our Member Review program, to sponsor the site, to in any way engage with members outside of this thread in the last year or so. Maybe I'm forgetting a time when you did, but… that's my honest memory of it right now.

Second, I've already talked with two people in particular, privately, about their reactions in this thread, and made clear to them that they do not speak for TST, just as you will tell us that your other "fans" don't speak for DF. Yes? So we can agree that we've both had people somewhat mis-representing us? If so, okay, and we can put that to bed.

I sent an offer to you today via Matt Holm. One small change: though I'd said two spots were available, it's now down to one.

See you at the PGA Show.

[Phil McGleno]

@Hack2putt how is your putter different-Except for not having different head shapes and hosels-Than these: http://edelgolf.com/pages/torque ?

How about offering up four or five putters for the Member Review program?-http://thesandtrap.com/a/member-review-program???

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

How about offering up four or five putters for the Member Review program?-http://thesandtrap.com/a/member-review-program???

Not a bad idea. Send me a PM, @Hack2putt, if you're interested.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Phil McGleno said:

@Hack2putt how is your putter different-Except for not having different head shapes and hosels-Than these: http://edelgolf.com/pages/torque ?

How about offering up four or five putters for the Member Review program?-http://thesandtrap.com/a/member-review-program???

 

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not a bad idea. Send me a PM, @Hack2putt, if you're interested.

 

3 hours ago, Hack2putt said:

Dear sir, I am the inventor and owner of Directed Force Putters and Press Grips. I tried to be open and honest earlier in the thread and then got very busy doing putting seminars and demonstrations and building putters as well as being a widowed single parent.  I can promise you that know one from my company has set up 'fake accounts' or have I authorized or promoted anyone to do 'shilling' . I don't have time or energy to police what people say good bad or indifferent about my products on blogs, and am quite frankly pretty insulted of the things that are being said here on this site.  I was recently made aware of how this thread spiraled into the ground. At one point I was ready to do some sponsoring but after reading all these posts I'm less than enthused to do so anymore. I have spent hundreds of thousands patenting , buying dies and cnc's and inventing a putter and a grip that feels and rolls great so that players much like yourself might make more putts and have more fun playing and help grow the game. In real world testing has already proven itself a winner and countless PGA professional agree and have already put that in writing.  I don't pay anyone to use it however it won the NorCal senior PGA stroke play championship, the Sierra Nevada Chapter PGA Match play Championship (and many more than I'm not going to list) as well as countless First Tee, Drive chip and Putt and US kids golf championships, and will be played in the senior PGA championship and you will see it on the PGA tour most likely this year. If you or any one on this blog including the administrators have something to say or complain about please feel free to contact me at bill@directedforce.com. A full retraction of said accusations without warrant or proof would be appreciated. I have contributed 30 years to the golf business, I have two degrees in golf from the SDGA, low medalist PAT, owned a tour trailer and have done club repair fittings and swing analysts for 30 plus PGA Tour players, well over 40,000 lessons as well as being a Director of Instuction for many years working with bio motion sensors. I resigned from the PGA many years ago because of a family tragedy but stayed in the industry because of my passion to grow the game by helping players play better and score better. Dragging my name and company threw the dirt is a slap in the face. Sincerely Bill Presse IV

If you are interested, send one lefty one too! Maybe one of us lefties might like to try it out as well.

According to GG I'm a terrible putter and a leftie. . .

http://www.directedforce.com/product-p/reno1.htm

[Hack2putt]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

If you are interested, send one lefty one too! Maybe one of us lefties might like to try it out as well.

According to GG I'm a terrible putter and a leftie. . .

http://www.directedforce.com/product-p/reno1.htm

Thanks and I made sure to make it in lefty also. Here's a remote fitting link 

The best I can do for 'demo' fitted putters is PUD pricing on a couple. Each putter is hand balanced to match the arc of the player. I give free putters to PGA European PGA  LPGA and some Web tour players. PGA members and industry employees receive one PUD per year. Maybe after the PGA show I'll circle back here and review my promotion marketing budget and participate in the club review program however at this time I have to decline, very sorry guys and gals. 

[Hack2putt]

3 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

@Hack2putt how is your putter different-Except for not having different head shapes and hosels-Than these: http://edelgolf.com/pages/torque ?

How about offering up four or five putters for the Member Review program?-http://thesandtrap.com/a/member-review-program???

Two of my reps  had this putter in the Revealer at a demo day at Bayonet , the Edel rep was there and watched, it did not stay square , spun and over rotated, actually did a 360* on a thirty foot putt, so therefore it's not really zero torque, nor the seemore that one is on YouTube. Lie Angle Balancing is different than just toe up balancing or what some people are calling dynamic balanced in that I balance the face to stay dead square to the arc, which is determined by a good fitting. Generally speaking the lie angle, length and spine angle determine a pendulum strokes arc, once that arc is identified each putter is hand balanced until it stays square to the arc, however I can make the putter face match a path that would be different than what the  lie angle arc might be ,within reason of course. I hope this helps, take care