Jump to content
IGNORED

With Stronger lofted Irons, do I need a 4 Iron?


JRM4440
Note: This thread is 3660 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I spent this afternoon up at Haggin Oaks in Sacramento, CA testing clubs on their range. I fell in love with the new Callaway X Hot2 Irons and hybrids. IMHO, they feel like butter. I was checking the specs, and I know club lofts are getting stronger. Here is my dilemma. The 5 iron is 23 degrees. The 4 iron is 20.5 degrees, and the 3 hybrid that I would get is 19 degrees. It seems like the 4 iron is almost redundant. Or am I missing something here?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jamie

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

Yeah going with a 4 iron doesn't seem to make much sense unless you want to go from a 20.5* 4 iron to a 15* 3 wood or a 17* 4 wood.

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

I will just say this: there's a lot more to the angle the ball launches at than loft.

Again, a good example: the Titleist MB and CB. The CB had about 2-3° less loft, yet the sets blended at any iron throughout the set because the CG was lower in the CB and produced pretty much the same launch conditions across the set.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The 24/38 rule should be in effect here.  The average golfer can't any iron of less the 24* or 38" in length consistentally.  As any rule there are exceptions, but over 40 years of teaching golf, I find them few and far between.

Wishon  715 CLC-AXE5 A shaft -hard steppedt -44.5"
4 wood-Infiniti 17*-UST IROD A shaft-Hard stepped(2009 model)
Hybrids 19* & 24*-Trident DSW-UST IROD Hybrid A shaft-hard stepped (2009 model)
Irons-5-PW- Wilson Staff Progressive Forged-TT Release  sensicore( 5&6-Soft stepped R-7,8&9-R-wedge hard stepped R
Wedges-52*-Wilson JP BeCE(54* bent to 52*)-TT-Release sensicore-hard stepped R

              56*Wilson R-61 BECU Sandy Andy- Release sensicore tipped same as 8 iron

               60* Wilson Harmonized BECU-Release sensicore tipped same as 8 iron

Woods- Star Grips  Irons Energy Grips

:Putter-Rife IBF with Ping Blackout Grip-35"

Ball-Wilson Staff Zip Golf. or C-25

Link to comment
Share on other sites


My 4 iron is 21* and my 3h is 19*. I keep my 4 in the bag for certain shots. Basically because I have room for it. I use the 4 iron mostly off the tee on short sharp par 4's and when the wind is up. Im able to flight this lower than my 3H. If I didn't have room in the bag for it, it would be gone, no question. But if you have room and can hit it fairly well, no harm in keeping it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


... I fell in love with the new Callaway X Hot2 Irons and hybrids. ...

The 4 iron is 20.5 degrees, and the 3 hybrid that I would get is 19 degrees. It seems like the 4 iron is almost redundant. ...

Remember to account for shaft length. Here are the Callaway specs:

X2Hot Club Comparisons

Club

Loft

Shaft Length

SwWt

3H

19*

40.5”

D0

4H

22*

39.75”

D0

4i

20.5*

38.875”

D2*

*4i = D2 for steel, D0 for graphite

Compared to the 4i, the 3H shaft is 1.65" longer, roughly +15 yards in distance, plus a couple more yards for the stronger loft. My guess would be you'd get more overlap from the 4H (slightly longer shaft) and the 4i (slightly stronger loft).

You would need to get launch monitor data to see the exact yardage difference.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

When I bought the x-hots last year, I went without a 4 iron. Previously had one with my AP1s (but it was rarely in the bag), but did not feel that I would be able to hit the Callaway one consitently.

Follow me on twitter

Chris, although my friends call me Mr.L

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I have a 4 iron and a 3 iron and hit them pretty well (when I'm playing okay) but honestly I could almost always shoot the same score without either one of them. I could take something off of my 5 wood just as well.

Come to think of it I could take even more off of my 3 wood and ditch the 5 wood and probably do just as well without any of those clubs.

So while I have all of those clubs it wouldn't be a major loss if I didn't have them. Would be a lighter bag too. :-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I didn't go with the x-hots but rather went with the Cobra Amp-Cell irons which also have less loft. My pitching wedge is 44*. I did not buy the 4i given I carry a 3h and I don't miss the 4i at all. Besides, given the loft the 4i in the Amp-Cell irons I really couldn't hit it that well, much prefer the 4h.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • 3 weeks later...

I'm facing almost this same question, just measured the lofts on all irons and wedges. I have a Adams tight lies 1308 set... my gap wedge is 49 which creates a huge gap between it and my 58 degree. ON the low end my 6 iron is 26 degrees.  only 2 degrees stronger than my 4 hybrid.  I'm almost tempted to drop the 4h and 6i and add a 25/26 degree hybrid and a wedge.

NIke VRS covert

Mini driver 14 degree

Nike covert 5 wood

taylormade sldr 4 hybrid

Taylormade Rocketballz Irons:  6-aw

Taylormade atv  56,60,64

Jpl Putter

Nxt tour s yellow

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I will just say this: there's a lot more to the angle the ball launches at than loft.

Exactly. Don't base anything on looking at just the loft alone. @ JRM4440 my advice is get the 4 iron, get as full a set as you can even if you doubt you will play those lower irons. If once you start to play, you find you do have a gap, it is a lot easier to fill it with the club that belongs in the set than it is to hunt for a replacement. In the good old days, before we started dumping low irons for the mix and match of hybrids, fairway woods, etc., I think it was easier to avoid gaps. Even at the high end, you didn't have the gaps we get today because yesteryear's 9 iron is today's PW, the PW iron is today's gap, etc. That's a tradeoff we get into for game improvement clubs. But you can't look at just loft as an indicator. So many factors go into distance and trajectory, I think the best idea is to get out there and play the clubs for a while. While there is no guarantee that even a set is consistent in its yardages from one club to the next, it is probably the most reliable starting point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

In the recent GolfWorld, they said Ben Hogan's 1953 irons were, on average, 2.5 degrees weaker than modern day clubs.

I think that's a lot less than many people would believe.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Quote:

In the recent GolfWorld, they said Ben Hogan's 1953 irons were, on average, 2.5 degrees weaker than modern day clubs.

I think that's a lot less than many people would believe.

Hogan was famous for being fastidious about his equipment. I recall reading a story where before a round, his fellow pros saw Hogan looking at a new box of balls with a magnifying glass and occasionally discarding a ball. One of them asked him why he was throwing out these news balls. Hogan's reply was, "Too much paint in some of the dimples." I didn't read the GolfWorld story, but having seen other writeups about Hogan's clubs, I recall they were quite custom. Shorter than standard, some varying swingweights and lie angles. Arguably, he was decades ahead of everyone in terms of attention to his equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if he jacked his lofts slightly (compared to standard of the day) to give him a mental edge.

I think if you look at 9-iron lofts from '70s and '80s (sourcing from Maltby's book) you pretty much see lofts in the 45 - 48 degree range. You even have the Hogan Apex PCs (mid 1980s?) being the outlier with a 49 degree 9-iron. As comparison, even a modern blade like the Titleist MBs have a stated 9-iron loft of 43 degrees - a club and a half stronger than the Hogan PCs. Certainly if you get into the cavity back arena at least on paper things get a little crazy. The Callaway X2 9-iron is a stated 39 degrees. BUT as you point out, loft is just one factor in distance and trajectory. I think this all gets back to having to hit the clubs and not just look at the specs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


My 4i has 24* loft; I also carry a 4h with 23* loft.  I carry the 4i about 205-210, and the 4h about 215-220 with a higher traj.  They are both there in my bag for a reason.  Loft doesn't mean as much as it used to.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 3660 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Wordle 1,013 4/6* ⬛🟦🟦⬛⬛ ⬛🟦⬛🟦🟦 🟧⬛🟧🟧🟧 🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧 par is good after a double bogey yesterday.
    • I did read the fine print tonight. It said replace with “similar features & function”.  8 yeas ago my purchase had features that today are available on the lower end models and the current version of my model has more “bells & whistles” than what I got 8 years ago.  So I am thinking they honored the agreement and I can’t argue the offer. since getting a credit for the full purchase price all I am really out over the past 8 years was the cost of the extended warranty, which was less than a low end  treadmill would have cost me. now the question is which model to replace with.  I’ll stay with Nordic Track or I forfeit the $1,463 credit so I will get Nordic Track.  And they honored the warranty and were not hard to work with which is a plus.
    • Generally speaking, extended warranties are a terrible deal and should almost always be avoided. They are a huge profit center for the companies that offer them, which should tell you almost everything you need to know about how much value most consumers get when purchasing them.  This is correct, and the old adage applies - only buy insurance when you can't afford the loss. This usually doesn't apply to most consumer goods.  To your second question, no I don't believe the offer is fair. They are replacing it, but it is not being replaced at "no cost to you". Since the amount being disputed (over $500) is non-trivial, I would probably push the issue. Don't waste your time on the phone with a customer service agent or a supervisor. They have probably given you all they have the authority to do. Rather, I would look at the terms of your agreement and specifically legal disputes. The odds are you probably agreed to binding arbitration in the event of a dispute. The agreement will outline what steps need to be followed, but it will probably look something like this.  1. Mail the Nordic Track legal department outlining your dispute and indicate you are not satisfied with the resolution offered.  2. Open up a case with the AAA (American Arbitration Association), along with the required documentation. 3. Wait about 4-5 weeks for a case to be opened - at which point someone from Nordic Track's legal department will offer to give you the new model at no cost to you.  They certainly don't want to spend the time and energy to fight you over $500. 4. Enjoy your new Nordic Track at no cost to you. I recently entered binding arbitration against a fairly large and well known company that screwed me over and refused to make it right. In my demand letter, I made a pretty sizeable request that included compensation for my time and frustration. Once it hit their legal department, they cut me a check - no questions asked. It was far cheaper to settle with me than to send their legal team to defend them in the arbitration.
    • I never thought of looking at it on multiple purchases like you said.  Yes, the extended may help me on 1 or 2 items but not the other 5 or 6.
    • Day 84 - Forgot to post yesterday, but I did some more chipping/pitching.    Back/neck were feeling better today, so I did a much overdue Stack session. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...