Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take

[MS256]

I think the biggest change in distance is the golf ball. The advent of titanium face on the driver is a large change as well, but let's face it, the mfg are capped on the cor that they can produce a driver face so there is a limit to technology since. The ball however, continues to develop. The attached link is on a test of titleist balls from the balata to the current pro v1 ball. All test are. With a player that has a 110 mph swing, less than. The longest tour pros by quite a bit. Look at the distance changes. On the balls, easily 35 yards just due to the ball! If nicklaus were using a titanium faced driver and a current pro v1 he would be hitting it just as far as the modern player. And. By the way, I doubt that a bubba could hit the balata ball as straight as he does the modern ball. He would be all over the course!

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2011/08/evolution-of-a-golf-ball/

That's a really huge difference!

I'm not used to looking at Trackman numbers but the difference in rollout between the balata ball and the Professional 90 don't make much sense to me. I'm also surprised at the launch angle for all of the balls. Would have expected a higher launch angle. Is that normal?

[iacas]

I just researched pros carry distances and it's about 260. Jack carried about the same. So I don't see a difference really, besides the fact that fairways and greens are much faster than they were back in the 70's.

The median player in 2013 was 274.3 yards, carry, FWIW.

I think the biggest change in distance is the golf ball. The advent of titanium face on the driver is a large change as well, but let's face it, the mfg are capped on the cor that they can produce a driver face so there is a limit to technology since. The ball however, continues to develop.

The ball plays a role, but drivers:

- Are larger

- Are lighter

- Have bigger faces

- Have longer shafts

Players:

- Are more fit

- Have launch monitors to fine-tune their launch conditions

- Realize how much of an advantage distance can be

Those things matter too. It's not just the ball. After all, we've had an Overall Distance Standard for a long long time now as well. Longer than we've had a CoR standard.

The average swing speed of a PGA Tour player has gone up over 11 MPH in the last 25 years. That plays a HUGE role in distance.

[mvmac]

A guy on YouTube did a comparison with an XHot and an old Big Berths and the difference was only 8 yards. Same ball

Both are titanium drivers (I'm assuming) and all other things being equal: ball, swing speed, similar launch and spin, 8 yards is pretty good IMO

@shortstop20 , please take a look at this thread. Learn to multi-quote rather than making two consecutive posts few minutes apart. You also have 9 minutes to go back and edit your post if you want to add something.

Little Things New Users can learn.

[shortstop20]

True I guess for some. Jack Nicklaus said he went full out on every shot and could carry 260. That was with the old equipment, though I don't see much difference between the old clubs and balls as compared to the modern stuff. If the pros are using 80%, then they must be some huge guys. On tv they look small, but I've seen Bubba Watson's arms and they are larger than most. He also uses leverage very well. Most of these guys are huge, like 6' and 240 pounds. I'm only about 170 pounds and 5'4". Any other ideas on how they hit the ball so far?

Thank you for your concern,

Xerex

It's mechanics, pure and simple.

Most of them are not 240 pounds, not at all. I'm 6' 2", 195 pounds and I'm still average/thin build. If they were 45 more pounds with 2 less inches less height, they'd be fat.

[impactswing]

A pro has hit 500 balls a day or more for over a decade before u see them Thats 2 million balls Plus thousands of rounds Every tour pro is also similar at impact, their hips are well rotated by impact so the belt buckle in 40+ degrees towards target, most amateurs belt buckle is facing the ball at impact This huge hip rotation forces the weight transfer so by impact the rear heel has lifted If you know what to look for at impact, you learn how to spot pro level impact mechanics If you cannot hit that impact position you will mot have maximum pro distance Grip, takeaway, lenght of backswing, its all irrelevant to a pro swing, they all change, bit impact is constant If you learn to hit that impact position you will jump 10-20% in swing speed Some amateurs hit that position, its why they have pro distances You put that impact position with a short game you are scratch or better The pros literally have one impact position Theres lots of aids and swing thoughts or keys to force amateurs to learn proper hip rotation But thats it One constant in good swings Impact position

[iacas]

This huge hip rotation forces the weight transfer so by impact the rear heel has lifted

Please explain how, if your weight is 55 trail and 45 lead at the top of your backswing, simply rotating your hips gets your weight 85%+ forward at impact?

The pros literally have one impact position

No they don't.

There's a reason you were restricted from the Instructional and Member Swing forums - you're a one-trick pony who can't seem to wrap his head around the possibility that you can't seem to explain your one trick very well, let alone the many other pieces that affect a player's ability to play good golf.

[impactswing]

Even your pics verify impact is same Look at back heel Its up That means weight left side The long pros are all past 40 degrees The reason you restricted me is I pointed out your 5SK is wrong, the head is not steady. The head rotates in the swing and on top pros it dips twice. So telling people dont move your head is bad instruction imo The head turns toward the back then forward But more importantly it dips down twice First dip backswing Second on downswing Amateurs usually lift up twice So after I explained the flaw in your 5SK u restricted me The head is not steady Only common thing in golf swings Back heel lifts impact Longer pros all past 40 degrees Thats my theory and it simplifies golf to help anateurs realize they can move a lot on a swing Its all about impact Look at the huge differences in swings Floyd Arnie Chi chi Trevino Jack Lots of differences Yet impact they all have a raised back heel Hips past 40 degrees They all also dipped down in swing Drstroying your steady head key

[iacas]

Even your pics verify impact is same

The longer hitting pro on the left is nowhere near 40° open with his hips.

That means weight left side

You do realize that I've actually measured PGA Tour pros, and have studied weight, pressure, ground reaction forces, etc. for quite awhile, yes?

I'll ask again: how do you propose, from 55/45 at the top of the backswing (weight, not pressure, which is often 70-80 trail side), simply ROTATING your hips will transfer weight forward (or pressure - and please be clear about which measurement you're using, as they're quite different)?

The long pros are all past 40 degrees

Jim Furyk is WAY past 40. Yet he averaged almost 20 yards shorter distance than the guy on the left (whose hips are nowhere near 40° open).

The reason you restricted me is I pointed out your 5SK is wrong, the head is not steady.

The head rotates in the swing and on top pros it dips twice. So telling people dont move your head is bad instruction imo

You weren't restricted because you disproved anything. You were restricted because you have a two-track mind (one when it comes to golf instruction) and you won't actually answer anyone's questions. You're just interested in pushing your theory.

You didn't seem to spend even five minutes researching what the "Steady Head" key is about:

- We say several times that rotation is not what's meant by "steady."

- We have measured data from PGA Tour pros about how much they move their heads laterally in the golf swing.

- We say - flat out - in several places that vertical movement allows the most freedom for movement, as many strong players will drop and pop up as part of their "jumping" for power and speed.

So congratulations! You've demonstrated that you've not actually understood even the first Key in 5 Simple Keys. I guess perhaps for you they should have been made simpler ? :)

So after I explained the flaw in your 5SK u restricted me

Incorrect. I PMed you with the reasons why you were restricted. None of them had anything to do with your comments on 5SK. Particularly since you haven't actually "explained" anything. You don't even understand what "Steady Head" is.

Only common thing in golf swings

Back heel lifts impact

Longer pros all past 40 degrees

Except the guy on the left side of the picture above… and Jim Furyk being way past 40, but not a "longer" pro.

Look at the huge differences in swings

Floyd

Arnie

Chi chi

Trevino

Jack

Lots of differences

Five things in common.

P.S. Chi Chi, Trevino, Gary Player: not exactly long hitters by peer standards.

[impactswing]

The "guy on the left" is hitting an iron I can post pic after pic The longest pros in history all over 40 degrees toward target at impact With a driver Period

[iacas]

The "guy on the left" is hitting an iron

I can post pic after pic

The longest pros in history all over 40 degrees toward target at impact

With a driver

Period

Still longer than Furyk in both of these… and nowhere near 40°+ open.

It's good to see you've learned something though. It used to be 45° until I showed you a video @david_wedzik and I made which shows you that PGA Tour average is 40°.

Answer the question I asked about rotation.

[impactswing]

My opinion is same Longest pros in history well past 45

[Phil McGleno]

Caught in a bald-faced lie?-Just do what @impactswing does and just pretend it didn't happen!!!!![quote name="impactswing" url="/t/72762/why-do-the-pros-hit-it-so-far-heres-my-take/72#post_956070"]My opinion is same Longest pros in history well past 45[/quote] Asked a very simple question repeatedly?-Ignore it and just keep posting more obnoxious non-Haiku! I'm a golf instructor.-You, sir, dont know the first thing about golf instruction.

[impactswing]

For years people asked me if I play[quote name="Phil McGleno" url="/t/72762/why-do-the-pros-hit-it-so-far-heres-my-take/60#post_956077"]Caught in a bald-faced lie?-Just do what @impactswing does and just pretend it didn't happen!!!!! Asked a very simple question repeatedly?-Ignore it and just keep posting more obnoxious non-Haiku! I'm a golf instructor.-You, sir, dont know the first thing about golf instruction.[/quote] the tour due to my lenght and if I could teach them Up until I finally wrote some books on it, I never taught, I was too busy making mega mlilions running software companies Now my books teach lots of golfers all over the world If you got books out there Mine probably outsell you My books have instructed more people than any pro could teach Most of the books deal with swing speed How to increase it Then others deal with scoring Im not here to sell books I sell lots now Are you a PAT pga pro My books tell people Go to pats Get the basics But look at your video Where is your back heel impact Where are your hips rotated Power comes from proper hip rotation Period The rest can vary Grips Takeaways Lenght of swings U think u know golf Write a book See how many it sells

[saevel25]

My opinion is same

Longest pros in history well past 45

So you change your position now again. It was previously all pro's are past 45 degrees. Then it was all pro's past 40 degrees. Now its just pro's who hit the ball a far way are past 45 degrees.

Keep going and you'll end up just agreeing with us.

Look at this, Sergio Garcia, who averaged 9th best club head speed last year for driver. Look at that, back foot down and hips are not nearly open at all.

So a guy who can produce a top 10 clubhead speed with the driver doesn't have wide open hips at impact. Say it aint so!!

[MS256]

Now my books teach lots of golfers all over the world

If you got books out there

Mine probably outsell you

My books have instructed more people than any pro could teach

Most of the books deal with swing speed

How to increase it

Then others deal with scoring

Im not here to sell books

I sell lots now

You write books?

[impactswing]

Phil mcgleno Aka Mac ogrady U saying u mac?

[impactswing]

You write books? :roll:

Yep wrote over 100 books Funny how the few I wrote on golf produce 50% or more of sales now People like to read about golf U write about complex stuff and humans have little interest You write about a game You sell lots of books

[iacas]

If you got books out there

Mine probably outsell you

Best-selling DVD on the golf market for the past 18 months in a row. But what do I know… I'm just the Director of Instructor Development.

You still haven't answered the very basic questions I've asked of you.

Are you a PAT pga pro

I don't know what a PAT PGA Pro is. But it's good to see your ability to research things as simple as looking at my avatar or looking at http://purestrike5sk.com/instructors.php is as deep as your ability to research what's meant by "Steady Head."

But look at your video

Where is your back heel impact

Where are your hips rotated

Power comes from proper hip rotation

Period

I know a great many biomechanists who would easily disagree with that. Dustin Johnson would have a good chance of outdriving Zach Johnson from his knees.

And you should remember that I've pointed out that we agree on the hips - for the most part. But the difference is that I understand and appreciate that there's a LOT more to it than what you have to offer, and you can't even explain your "one" thing adequately.

The rest can vary

Grips

Takeaways

Lenght of swings

U think u know golf

Write a book

See how many it sells

Best-selling DVD in golf for the past 18 months. And a website with millions of page views per month.

Yep wrote over 100 books

I feel bad for your editors.

Please answer the very simple questions asked of you.