Valeria Pacheco 13 year old phenom

[saevel25]

There is so much more to being an extraordinary golfer than length. In fact, it is well down the list IMO. Impressive at the range, I agree, but less of a factor on the course. There is a certain distance that you need to be able to hit the ball to compete at the pro level, and anything beyond that is just bonus...

If the base criteria for phenom is amazing length then I know several phenoms, some of which can't break 80.

Pretty much right. Though better players tend to hit it farther due to proper swing sequence, and solid impact, it isn't the sole factor. Even when comparing PGA tour professionals, there is nearly a 30-40 yard gap between the top and low driving distance.

Also it doesn't mean anything because "proclaimed" phenoms have dive bombed before. Look at Michelle Wii. Set all sorts of records for being the youngest to do this, to do that. Yet she only has 2 LPGA wins. "Proclaimed" means nothing unless she backs it up. Which means "proclaiming" phenoms is a pointless act.

[sliceandhook]

Interesting thread, trying to predict if a teen girl will become a phenom in the future... read this thread a few months ago and waited to comment to see how the little one will score now that she is playing with the big girls. Looks like she started playing up (18 under) instead of her age group (13-15), and obviously longer distances. On a side note, it is amazing how this junior tours are being run nowadays, with all the records and stats of their performance. So by looking at her stats for this year, her scoring average went from 78 in 2013, to 73 in 2014. That is pretty good, and keep in mind that now she is playing longer (5800-6000) and with older girls. And with 7 out 13 rounds at even par or better, at least she could be classified as a scratch player... maybe of her way to

[ay33660]

It's great that you seem to want to hype up a hometown gal, maybe even a relative or something, but let's not forget what a true "phenom" in golf looks like:

The youngest winner (male or female) of an adult USGA-sanctioned tournament – Age 13

The youngest player to make a cut in an LPGA tournament and major – Age 13

The lowest round by a female in a PGA Tour event – 68 at Age 14

The youngest player to play in Curtis Cup history – Age 14

The first female to qualify for a USGA championship that is generally played by males - Age 15

Big gap as I see it.

Agreed.

She is undoubtedly a very good golfer but I bet there are at least 50 other girls around the world her age just as good or better.

I walked the last 9 holes with Lydia Ko when she won the CN Canadian Women's Open at the Vancouver Golf Club. I think she had just turned 15 and the course was playing to around 6,500 yards. She successfully defended her title the next year as an amateur at Royal Mayfair in Edmonton.

She beat all of the top women players on the LPGA tour ......... a long long way from junior golf.

As an amateur Ko won her first professional event at the age of 14.

Did anyone hear of Lydia Ko before she won the CN Open. I sure didn't.

Ko is now 17 and has won 8 professional events (3 as an amateur).

Based on her achievement at 14 when she won her first professional tour event, I bet when Ko was 13 she was as good or very likely MUCH better than Pacheco.

Sorry but I will reserve the word "phenom" for players like Lydia Ko.

[Gunther]

Damn, lot of cynics here. I have a 15 yr old daughter who is a high-level volleyball player, All-District as a freshman this year, MVP on a team with 6 seniors, and lots of other club accolades plus, she's 6'1". There is no way she could compete on a national level with 18s, she's just not there yet. So, a 13 yr old, competing against 18 yr olds and averaging 73 IS a phenom. She may not be in the Lydia Ko, Michelle Wie, Lexi stratosphere but that doesn't mean she's not a phenom. I wish her well and hope she gets invited to some pro events in the next couple years. I'll be looking for her. Thanks for posting.

[Phil McGleno]

Not cynics, you have to take into account the back stories of the OP and the fact that this was from February when you maynot have even been a member. The OP was also SOLLOG-Son of Light, Light of God. He gave himself that name and has been on trial for some weird stuff.-His history on the site is not great either. More to the story than you want to assume ten months later.[quote name="Gunther" url="/t/72768/valeria-pacheco-13-year-old-phenom/18#post_1082586"]Damn, lot of cynics here. I have a 15 yr old daughter who is a high-level volleyball player, All-District as a freshman this year, MVP on a team with 6 seniors, and lots of other club accolades plus, she's 6'1". There is no way she could compete on a national level with 18s, she's just not there yet. So, a 13 yr old, competing against 18 yr olds and averaging 73 IS a phenom. She may not be in the Lydia Ko, Michelle Wie, Lexi stratosphere but that doesn't mean she's not a phenom. I wish her well and hope she gets invited to some pro events in the next couple years. I'll be looking for her. Thanks for posting.[/quote]

[Gunther]

Not cynics, you have to take into account the back stories of the OP and the fact that this was from February when you maynot have even been a member. The OP was also SOLLOG-Son of Light, Light of God. He gave himself that name and has been on trial for some weird stuff.-His history on the site is not great either. More to the story than you want to assume ten months later.

Holy mackerel! I think I've heard stories about all that. Jeez, I actually didn't notice when this was initially posted. Crazy, thanks for the heads up.

[Mr22putt]

Not cynics, you have to take into account the back stories of the OP and the fact that this was from February when you maynot have even been a member.

The OP was also SOLLOG-Son of Light, Light of God. He gave himself that name and has been on trial for some weird stuff.-His history on the site is not great either.

More to the story than you want to assume ten months later.

LOL

Some info on the OP

*******************************************************************************************************************************************

John Patrick Ennis (born July 14, 1960), also known as Sollog, is an American numerologist, mystic, and self-proclaimed psychic. He is also a self-published author and a self-described artist, musician, poet, and filmmaker.

Since March 3, 2005 Ennis has been residing in Broward County, Florida jail awaiting extradition to Philadelphia.

History:

In September 1995, Ennis was arrested by the United States Secret Service on suspicion of making threats against then President of the United States, Bill Clinton. It was discovered that he had two warrants outstanding against him, and he was committed for trial on the February 1988 vehicle offences. When the case came to court in May 1996, Ennis´s defence invoked conspiracy theories involving the President, the Governor of Pennsylvania and the Mayor of Philadelphia. He dismissed his own defense attorney, calling him "part of the conspiracy", and represented himself from that point on. Judge Anthony DeFino described the case (which the press dubbed the "God Trial") as being "the most unusual case I have ever seen in my courtroom". Ennis was convicted on all four charges and imprisoned.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message133778/pg1

[Mr22putt]

Agreed.

She is undoubtedly a very good golfer but I bet there are at least 50 other girls around the world her age just as good or better.

I walked the last 9 holes with Lydia Ko when she won the CN Canadian Women's Open at the Vancouver Golf Club. I think she had just turned 15 and the course was playing to around 6,500 yards. She successfully defended her title the next year as an amateur at Royal Mayfair in Edmonton.

She beat all of the top women players on the LPGA tour ......... a long long way from junior golf.

As an amateur Ko won her first professional event at the age of 14.

Did anyone hear of Lydia Ko before she won the CN Open. I sure didn't.

Ko is now 17 and has won 8 professional events (3 as an amateur).

Based on her achievement at 14 when she won her first professional tour event, I bet when Ko was 13 she was as good or very likely MUCH better than Pacheco.

Sorry but I will reserve the word "phenom" for players like Lydia Ko.

I was at the 2012 CN CWO all week too.

I had heard of and watched Lydia on GC when she was competing in the USGA Jr. Girls and Women's Am earlier that summer.

On Saturday afternoon.......Lydia, her mom and a friend were eating kimbap, cherry tomatoes & watermelon (Lydia's mom os always bugging her to eat healthy) right beside me on the grass outside of the putting green....no one really knew her or was bugging her.......even though she was the 54 hole leader.....those days are gone for Lydia trying to eat and relax outside the ropes.

It was great watching and cheering for the Kiwi that week.

I'm really happy the gals are returning to Van City in 2015.....there were large galleries in 2012 and there will be bigger galleries in 2015.

[Greentoothe]

kid's a beast.

[ay33660]

Damn, lot of cynics here. I have a 15 yr old daughter who is a high-level volleyball player, All-District as a freshman this year, MVP on a team with 6 seniors, and lots of other club accolades plus, she's 6'1". There is no way she could compete on a national level with 18s, she's just not there yet.

So, a 13 yr old, competing against 18 yr olds and averaging 73 IS a phenom. She may not be in the Lydia Ko, Michelle Wie, Lexi stratosphere but that doesn't mean she's not a phenom.

I wish her well and hope she gets invited to some pro events in the next couple years. I'll be looking for her. Thanks for posting.

Not a cynic but a realist.

As you have said she may not be in the Lydia, Michelle or Lexi stratosphere so if Pacheco is a "phenom" then what do we call Lydia, Michelle or Lexi.

Don't forget Ko won a PROFESSIONAL event when she was 14 years old .,,,, against PROFESSIONAL golfers.

Ko won the Canadian Open when she was 15 ...... against the BEST LPGA golfers.

THAT is significantly more difficult than a 13 year old competing against 18 year olds even on a national level.

Just calling it like it is.

Have a close friend involved in scouting at the Major Junior level in hockey. They see these promotional videos all the time. In fact any bantam hockey player wanting to be drafted or looking for a scholarship has one.

[ay33660]

It was probably too easy to use Ko as an example of a young successful golfer.

There is a Canadian golfer that played in the same 2012 Canadian Women's Open that Ko won.

Unfortunately she was 9 over after two days and didn't make the cut.

Earlier in 2012 she won a PGA Canada Women's Tour event in Quebec. She won by two strokes with a score of 3 under par. The course played to 6,164 yards.

That win granted her entry into the Canadian Women's Open.

She was an amateur like Ko.

In between those two events she won the Canadian Junior Girl Championship where she was competing against 18 year olds.

She was 14 in 2012.

I bet most of you haven't heard of her.

Her name is Brooke Henderson.

Just pointing out that there are many other 13 and 14 year old girls that can successfully compete with much older players on courses set up for professionals.

[nick1998bunker]

Her ability now really means nothing, especially for a girl. She will have to improve a lot of strokes and get much bigger to compete on lpga. And for women where the game is based on hitting it short and strait like everybody does, it's going to come more down to her shortgame. There are just too many other girls better than her for anything to be certain. It's different for boys where the big hitters are wild cards and the short hitters can be ruled out completely.

[Mr22putt]

I bet most of you haven't heard of her.

Her name is Brooke Henderson.

Just pointing out that there are many other 13 and 14 year old girls that can successfully compete with much older players on courses set up for professionals.

And currently the world #1 female Am.

Expect to see Brooke at 2015 LPGA Q school...she originally said she wanted to go to a D1 school.....but there's lots of media rumour that she'll likely bypass school and go pro....especially if she's successful at Q school.

There's misinformation that Lydia is the youngest female to win a pro event....in fact Brooke beat Lydia by a few days.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by impactswing

Definite phenom imo

It's great that you seem to want to hype up a hometown gal, maybe even a relative or something, but let's not forget what a true "phenom" in golf looks like:

The youngest winner (male or female) of an adult USGA-sanctioned tournament – Age 13

The youngest player to make a cut in an LPGA tournament and major – Age 13

The lowest round by a female in a PGA Tour event – 68 at Age 14

The youngest player to play in Curtis Cup history – Age 14

The first female to qualify for a USGA championship that is generally played by males - Age 15

Big gap as I see it.

+1.

Didn't Chinese American girl at age 11 qualified for an LPGA major last year?   Lydia Ko was a phenom.  Wie was another.   For every Lydia & Wie, there are many "phenoms" who don't make it.    If Velera was a true phenom, GC and other media would be already hyping her.

[Mr22putt]

+1.

Didn't Chinese American girl at age 11 qualified for an LPGA major last year?   Lydia Ko was a phenom.  Wie was another.   For every Lydia & Wie, there are many "phenoms" who don't make it.    If Velera was a true phenom, GC and other media would be already hyping her.

Lucy Li qualified for the 2014 USWO at Pinehurst.

Lydia IS a phenom.

[sliceandhook]

Your point is well taken, "phenom" is a strong word for local "great" junior players... I guess if the title of this thread would have used the word "great" golfer, then the names of Ko, Li, Wi, Zhang, Kim, Lee, Wu, Chen, Wang, etc. that dominate the conversation of girls junior golf would not appear. Do not get me wrong, there are "great" local girls junior golfers, but for every one local, there are three or four from other places... How the local "great" golfers can compete with these girls that play golf all over the world, with what it seems is with unlimited resources, and still maintain their school work and even their amateur status? Remember the Jutanugarn sisters? How Lydia Ko managed to play all those events? Lucy Li lives in California, but his coach is Jim McLean, who's academy is in Florida? Does the LPGA needs to take a look at this trend and try to help the local players?

[ay33660]

Just jumping back onto this old thread because one of the golfers that I would describe as a TRUE phenom has just become the worlds #1 professional ladies golfer at the age of 17.

Not saying Valeria Pacheco can't do the same but she will need to improve a lot in the next three to four years ..........

[rkim291968]

Just jumping back onto this old thread because one of the golfers that I would describe as a TRUE phenom has just become the worlds #1 professional ladies golfer at the age of 17.

Not saying Valeria Pacheco can't do the same but she will need to improve a lot in the next three to four years ..........

ay33660, very cool avatar.   Made me laugh.

Ko is in the process of making her own legend if she stays the course.