Today's average golfer, what is your answer?

[Lihu]

Can't speak for anyone else but throughout a round my drives are all over the place, short, long, left and right. But I don't see many guys hitting it over 220 regularly that are playing to a 15ish. For every drive that goes beyond 250 they hit a bunch of crap. We have a 317-333 yd par 4 at my former home course, most men play whites so call it 317. In 2 seasons playing at least 100 rounds there I rarely saw men hit it up to the 100 yd marker with a driver. It's not that they can't hit it further but that they lack consistency. They might hit one great drive a side, a couple of ho-hum drives and the rest are flat out bad. That's what I see from the 3 to the green 2 putt types.

I was thinking about my responses over while reading your thread and what DSC123 mentioned, and the "15" handicappers I know.

At least one of the people I know is on this forum, and I know he averages farther than 250 carry with a 15-ish handicap. This might skew the data for me. He is probably taking 5SK or at least using the information on this site, and probably has a better swing than most 15 handicappers. I have not played with the ones on this forum that fit your chart, but was told by them that they are a short hitter after an outing. So, we are at 50/50 with the ones I know from this site.

I was given a 17.3 handicap, which turns out to be surprisingly accurate, and have been taking 5SK style lessons. So, maybe my swings are better than your typical 15 handicap, I will add some more current swings to MySwing thread for you to evaluate. I think I have finally combined keys 1 to 3, to be judged on the 8th of March.

However, my experience is really limited. I don't know how a "typical "15 handicap swings the club, I only know that I get past the red stakes (and the other "15" handicappers I know hit just as far) a lot of the times on short par 4. Even the longer 440 yard ones are usually driver-iron.

I will admit that my responses might be skewed, because of the training I am getting.

[Dave2512]

Averages a 250 carry or sometimes a 250 carry? I don't doubt it just that the big problems I see with high handicap golfers, myself included, is consistency. I suppose we all see different things out there. I tracked every drive I hit in 2013 my average distance for the year was 257 yds. That included everything from the whoops that barely cleared the ladies tee to a longest of 333. I can honestly say maybe 50% of it was in the 240-270 range. On a 420 yd par 4 my approaches are all over the place. I used everything from a 4h to a 52 wedge last year on the 1st hole of my home course, the tees are always within 5-10 yds of the 420 plaque. Like I said can only speak for myself. But if I averaged a 250 carry I would be a much better golfer than I am currently. I'm not losing all the strokes from 150 in.

[Lihu]

Averages a 250 carry or sometimes a 250 carry? I don't doubt it just that the big problems I see with high handicap golfers, myself included, is consistency. I suppose we all see different things out there. I tracked every drive I hit in 2013 my average distance for the year was 257 yds. That included everything from the whoops that barely cleared the ladies tee to a longest of 333. I can honestly say maybe 50% of it was in the 240-270 range. On a 420 yd par 4 my approaches are all over the place. I used everything from a 4h to a 52 wedge last year on the 1st hole of my home course, the tees are always within 5-10 yds of the 420 plaque. Like I said can only speak for myself. But if I averaged a 250 carry I would be a much better golfer than I am currently. I'm not losing all the strokes from 150 in.

Well, the person I am talking about hits anywhere from 240 to 260 and rolls to some distance. I am not going to name him, but I am sure if he see this post he will recognize himself. . He hits off line, in the rough, inside trees and different fairways. 250 carry is a long way! It also gives you the potential to go a long way off line. Also, trees are a problem. You hit a tree solid, and the ball's lost that's two strokes. Doesn't take much to add strokes to get to a 15 handicap. I've only played with him a couple times, but has been his general playing trend.

This goes for me too. If I had not lost two balls into trees this last weekend on a local 9 hole course, I would be 4 strokes lower. Instead I ended up with a 45.

I think distance is easier to gain than a lower score. This is also the case with the other "15" handicaps I know.

[Spitfisher]

Most of the random people I play drive the ball about this far, but I don't think the 14.6 handicap is your average golfer. The 14.6 golfer probably drives a lot higher than 93.4 mph, because their short game is not as solid as the chart probably assumes. All of the 15 handicappers I know drive 230 to 250 yards and roll out around here adds another 10 to 20 yards.

A vast majority of men ( maybe as high as 75% of all golfers) playing golf at any handicap do not hit the ball beyond 225 even with roll, oh sure they might think they are, they may say they are. They might even show you that on a 400 yard hole they are only 150 out. Bu the realty is they don't hit that far on average and only occasional at best. This same group hits their 7 iron 135 yards. there are others that can chime in on this but I see it all the time. I would agree that the average swing speed is less than 92 mph. Which explains why one club manufacturer determined through research that 75% of the golfers are using a shaft too stiff.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Most of the random people I play drive the ball about this far, but I don't think the 14.6 handicap is your average golfer. The 14.6 golfer probably drives a lot higher than 93.4 mph, because their short game is not as solid as the chart probably assumes.

All of the 15 handicappers I know drive 230 to 250 yards and roll out around here adds another 10 to 20 yards.

A vast majority of men ( maybe as high as 75% of all golfers) playing golf at any handicap do not hit the ball beyond 225 even with roll, oh sure they might think they are, they may say they are. They might even show you that on a 400 yard hole they are only 150 out. Bu the realty is they don't hit that far on average and only occasional at best. This same group hits their 7 iron 135 yards. there are others that can chime in on this but I see it all the time. I would agree that the average swing speed is less than 92 mph. Which explains why one club manufacturer determined through research that 75% of the golfers are using a shaft too stiff.

I agree with this point, and observed it. Most of the people I get partnered up with don't drive more than 225 yards.

However, my argument is that most of the 15 handicappers I know drive farther, and I don't think the chart is correct for them.

I guess, I shouldn't generalize on all 15 handicappers, but to be able to guarantee par on 3 holes a round and not have a distance advantage means they need to make a lot more 150 yard (or more) approaches. That sounds harder to do than making a longer drive. The regulation courses I play don't have more than a couple short par 4, and one of them has only one short par 4.

[colin007]

I don't think the "average" golfer is a 15. I think they're a lot worse.

[Lihu]

I don't think the "average" golfer is a 15. I think they're a lot worse.

I think you're right.

[sopel10]

I think you're right.

Doesn't that article say average handicap, meaning of people that track their handicap, not an average golfer?

[colin007]

Doesn't that article say average handicap, meaning of people that track their handicap, not an average golfer?

That's true, so I guess we're talking different animals. I'm going on the average guy I see on the course on a Friday/Saturday during the summer.

[Dave2512]

A vast majority of men ( maybe as high as 75% of all golfers) playing golf at any handicap do not hit the ball beyond 225 even with roll, oh sure they might think they are, they may say they are. They might even show you that on a 400 yard hole they are only 150 out. Bu the realty is they don't hit that far on average and only occasional at best. This same group hits their 7 iron 135 yards. there are others that can chime in on this but I see it all the time. I would agree that the average swing speed is less than 92 mph. Which explains why one club manufacturer determined through research that 75% of the golfers are using a shaft too stiff.

I see men hit it further than 225 all the time just not 13/14 times a round. Where I think people that overstate yardage get confused is they base their "averages" on what they do at the range not on the course. IMO easy to mislead yourself as you work your way through a large bucket, they remember the best shots and they seem more frequent than they are. With the pressure to score and perform well with driver in hand when you just get 13/14 attempts the inconsistency of the high handicap golfer is easy to expose. Can use myself as an example. I don't score in the low to mid 80's most often because I lack distance but because my ability to string together multiple good shots isn't great. More than that the shitty shots I hit usually lead to more because it's not usually a duff to a good lie. The days I break 80 or shoot a sub 40 9 if that's all I play are the days my misses don't get me in so much trouble I lose a bunch of strokes trying to get out. I felt that way when I played down to 8 and I'll be there again and likely a tad lower when can start posting scores for handicap again. If there is anything recreational golfers overestimate it is their consistency.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/72770/todays-average-golfer-what-is-your-answer/36#post_956309"]   I think you're right. [/QUOTE] Doesn't that article say average handicap, meaning of people that track their handicap, not an average golfer?

If this is what they mean, I can't believe that the average golfer with a handicap only hits 200 yards. I agree that 75% of all golfers don't hit 225 yards. I also think that the 15 handicap is 5% of all players, and to get to a point where you expect greater than 2 to 3 pars every round seems to me to require an average carry distance of 230. Otherwise, one would need a killer short game to make up for that extra 30-50 yards.

[Spitfisher]

If this is what they mean, I can't believe that the average golfer with a handicap only hits 200 yards. I agree that 75% of all golfers don't hit 225 yards. I also think that the 15 handicap is 5% of all players, and to get to a point where you expect greater than 2 to 3 pars every round seems to me to require an average carry distance of 230. Otherwise, one would need a killer short game to make up for that extra 30-50 yards.

Keep in mind a true 15 handicap is someone who averages about 95-100. ( BTW I disagree with notion that 15 is an average I believe it to be over 20) A handicap is your potential, not your average score, some, including myself consider a handicap as being about 85% of your average score. SO after reading all of these posts and looking at the age, most of us feel it is someone close to the age of 50 right? This same group shoots 95-105 in their rules. I realise the "rules" interpetation is a variable. I mean how many people go back to the tee on an OB or lost ball, who don't roll a ball over out of a divot or hard pan, or fluff up a lie or ground their club or in general observe all the rules......all the time So of these golfers shooting 95-105 in there late 40s are driving the ball greater than 225? On average? I bet they are not and are not hitting 6 of 14 fairways. 175 yards out in the fairway is often better than 135-145 from the rough or worse. The results are often the same, short and right.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

If this is what they mean, I can't believe that the average golfer with a handicap only hits 200 yards.

I agree that 75% of all golfers don't hit 225 yards. I also think that the 15 handicap is 5% of all players, and to get to a point where you expect greater than 2 to 3 pars every round seems to me to require an average carry distance of 230. Otherwise, one would need a killer short game to make up for that extra 30-50 yards.

Keep in mind a true 15 handicap is someone who averages about 95-100. ( BTW I disagree with notion that 15 is an average I believe it to be over 20) A handicap is your potential, not your average score, some, including myself consider a handicap as being about 85% of your average score.

SO after reading all of these posts and looking at the age, most of us feel it is someone close to the age of 50 right? This same group shoots 95-105 in their rules. I realise the "rules" interpetation is a variable. I mean how many people go back to the tee on an OB or lost ball, who don't roll a ball over out of a divot or hard pan, or fluff up a lie or ground their club or in general observe all the rules......all the time

So of these golfers shooting 95-105 in there late 40s are driving the ball greater than 225? On average? I bet they are not and are not hitting 6 of 14 fairways. 175 yards out in the fairway is often better than 135-145 from the rough or worse. The results are often the same, short and right.

Scoring 95-100 seems a little high for a 15 handicap, and USGA says the average golfer with a handicap is a little less than 15.

[teamroper60]

Keep in mind a true 15 handicap is someone who averages about 95-100....

Haven't been able to post a score since last October but I just looked back over the past year and my average score for all of 2013 was 93.77.   The average of the last 20 scores I posted was  87.85 and I am an 18.   So, I disagree with the idea that a 15 is averaging 95-100..  When that was my scoring average, I was a 20-22.

[flopster]

Scoring 95-100 seems a little high for a 15 handicap, and USGA says the average golfer with a handicap is a little less than 15.

Well maybe the 100 part but I have seen plenty of 15 cappers shoot mid 90's, you have to take into account these more than likely are the throw away rounds and even a low 90 for instance on a course with a 130+ slope will get at least 2-3 shots taken away when it's indexed and then after all that it gets multiplied by .96 so shooting a low 90 is not an unreasonable score for a 15 to post and have it count toward handicap.

[flopster]

Just looked up a friend of mine who is a 12.5, his highest revision score is a 93 on a course rated 73.7 slope 139 it indexed at 17.3. I really don't think scores close to 100 for a 15 are unreasonable, they probably will not be a low 10 because most 15 cappers will not play courses that tough regularly but it's not very far off either.

[flopster]

Haven't been able to post a score since last October but I just looked back over the past year and my average score for all of 2013 was 93.77.   The average of the last 20 scores I posted was  87.85 and I am an 18.   So, I disagree with the idea that a 15 is averaging 95-100..  When that was my scoring average, I was a 20-22.

It could be the course you were playing is not rated very high. If your averaging 88 for all 20 rounds that's only 16 over if your course is a par 72, then your best 10 may be another 2 shots lower.

[Dave2512]

Just looked up a friend of mine who is a 12.5, his highest revision score is a 93 on a course rated 73.7 slope 139 it indexed at 17.3. I really don't think scores close to 100 for a 15 are unreasonable, they probably will not be a low 10 because most 15 cappers will not play courses that tough regularly but it's not very far off either.

Yep rating plays a part. Anyone that tracks stats will know what their avg strokes over par are. Handicaps see movement for those that play a lot. I ranged from a low of 8.x -12.x in 2013 with a 13.4 over par avg in 2013. Mid 90's plus seems reasonable for a 15 to me. A 15 is playing bogey golf.