Jump to content
IGNORED

New California Policies Cutting Qualified Students from CA Schools


Lihu
Note:Β This thread is 3675 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic.Β Thank you!

Recommended Posts

So, what else is new? I'll start off with the fact that almost every American has faced discrimination and injustice from where every they came. Asians specifically have faced a lot of injustice in Asia, and in the United States. US policies included exclusion acts, internments, and more. Now this. So, we're back to the specific discrimination part, the schools are banning qualified students from California schools in place of less qualified ones who are supposedly less "advantaged". [URL=http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30393117/ns/us_news-life/t/asian-americans-blast-uc-admissions-policy/#.UxOE3oXfBNA]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30393117/ns/us_news-life/t/asian-americans-blast-uc-admissions-policy/#.UxOE3oXfBNA[/URL] First of all, this policy is being passed. Second of all, Asians are not generally better off than any other minority. There are rich and poor, hard working or otherwise in any race. So, what gives one minority more of an advantage than another one? Nothing. So, why are there policies that seem to indicate otherwise? It impacts me, because my son has a friend who is a straight 'A' student taking AP classes and is good at programming computers already. He could work as a mid level programmer out of high school, he has written professionally used code. Yet he has trouble getting into California schools. He's probably going to Case Western Reserve on a 33% scholarship, but no California school is looking seriously at his applications due to this policy. Giving "disadvantaged" students an unfair means of admission to a school could very likely make way for their failure in the school. Simply put, they are not as qualified as those that got in by having even higher academic standards than those cut off by these artificial barriers. There is a large gap in the abilities between those that get in through discriminatory admissions and the ones who made the cut in their own group. I think the ACLU and affiliates have gone just a little too far this time, and it makes me think of all the non-minority students in the past that were equally discriminated against. My cousins did this :roll: : [URL=http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1[/URL] All Asians should just change their last names and/or just put white for race. Leave it up to a public institution to do something like this.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I agree. Many policies like this actually hurt the people they are "designed" to help. Employers won't believe they legitimately made it through the school. Not to mention the deserving person that worked his/her tail off only to lose a spot because of this.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Have you (or your son's friend's parents) looked at non-public schools in California? Pomona College and Harvey Mudd have great computer science programs, as does USC.

-- Michael | My swing!Β 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:Β  Titleist 915D2.Β  4-wood:Β  Titleist 917F2.Β  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.Β  Another hybrid in here too.Β  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.Β  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter.Β 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I agree. Many policies like this actually hurt the people they are "designed" to help. Employers won't believe they legitimately made it through the school.

Not to mention the deserving person that worked his/her tail off only to lose a spot because of this.

I think that all the students that finish, have earned their degrees. No matter how they got into the school.

However, not all of the admitted students will finish, and I think less will. Plus, there will be less of the tougher courses when you have these types of policies in place. simply because there are less academically qualified students to take them.

There will be a larger gap in the academic capabilities of the ones that got in by merit and the ones that get in by policy. This is simply because all the students that got in by merit made an artificial cut that is unreasonably high.

It's not that there is a difference in capability by race, it's simply because of a policy that was not well thought out.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Have you (or your son's friend's parents) looked at non-public schools in California? Pomona College and Harvey Mudd have great computer science programs, as does USC.

Yes, they did look at Harvey Mudd and Pomona, both very difficult schools to get into and very expensive.

At this point, we are probably not even going to apply to the UC schools. I would furthermore discourage any Asian parents from aspiring to send their children to any UC school.

Too bad, we have three generations of UC students, and a 4th if you include my grandfather who taught linguistics at UC Berkeley. I don't know who comes up with these policies and what statistics or data they base their decisions, but from any angle it looks like a very bad idea.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

So, what else is new? I'll start off with the fact that almost every American has faced discrimination and injustice from where every they came. Asians specifically have faced a lot of injustice in Asia, and in the United States. US policies included exclusion acts, internments, and more. Now this. First of all, this policy is being passed. Second of all, Asians are not generally better off than any other minority. There are rich and poor, hard working or otherwise in any race. So, what gives one minority more of an advantage than another one? Nothing.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with "almost every American". Also, I would say that, in America, latinos and blacks have higher rates of poverty and lower education achievement than asians.

Colin P.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, what else is new?

I'll start off with the fact that almost every American has faced discrimination and injustice from where every they came. Asians specifically have faced a lot of injustice in Asia, and in the United States. US policies included exclusion acts, internments, and more. Now this.

First of all, this policy is being passed. Second of all, Asians are not generally better off than any other minority. There are rich and poor, hard working or otherwise in any race. So, what gives one minority more of an advantage than another one? Nothing.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with "almost every American".

Also, I would say that, in America, latinos and blacks have higher rates of poverty and lower education achievement than asians.

This is not due to poverty.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm going to respectfully disagree with "almost every American".

Also, I would say that, in America, latinos and blacks have higher rates of poverty and lower education achievement than asians.


Ditto this.

There are reasons that underrepresented minorities exist that go beyond not just being able to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". I'd also say that it's a big jump to say that this doesn't have to be alleviated by letting all of the minorities in, therefore reducing the number of qualified students. There are other ways, especially in California. CA junior college-to-UC/CSU transers for instance.

That all being said, I agree that this is not a good policy. The fact that their own internal study showed that Asian, Latino, and Black population would be reduced and they still want to push forward with this is head-scratching.Β  It appears that a chunk of this is coming from dropping guaranteed admittance to students who graduate in the top 12.5% of their class to the top 10%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

This is not due to poverty.

Uhm… Not so sure about that one there @Lihu .

Edit: Errrr, @uno6518 already responded.

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³Β I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of InstructionΒ Golf EvolutionΒ β€’Β Owner,Β The Sand Trap .comΒ β€’Β Author,Β Lowest Score Wins
Golf DigestΒ "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17Β &Β "Best in State" 2017-20Β β€’ WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019Β :edel:Β :true_linkswear:

Check Out:Β New TopicsΒ |Β TST BlogΒ |Β Golf TermsΒ |Β Instructional ContentΒ |Β AnalyzrΒ |Β LSWΒ | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

[QUOTE name="colin007" url="/t/72885/new-californian-policies-are-cutting-more-qualified-students-from-california-schools#post_957100"] I'm going to respectfully disagree with "almost every American". Also, I would say that, in America, latinos and blacks have higher rates of poverty and lower education achievement than asians.[/QUOTE] Ditto this. There are reasons that underrepresented minorities exist that go beyond not just being able to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". I'd also say that it's a big jump to say that this doesn't have to be alleviated by letting all of the minorities in, therefore reducing the number of qualified students. There are other ways, especially in California. CA junior college-to-UC/CSU transers for instance. That all being said, I agree that this is not a good policy. The fact that their own internal study showed that Asian, Latino, and Black population would be reduced and they still want to push forward with this is head-scratching.Β  It appears that a chunk of this is coming from dropping guaranteed admittance to students who graduate in the top 12.5% of their class to the top 10%.

I'll need to dig deeper through the proposal, from what I read it was only for selective minorities. Lots of Asian families were poor 20 plus years ago. Culturally, education comes first for children. Everything is centered around this goal. Most Asian families would forgoe anything outside the basic necessities to educate their children. This is a cultural thing, because this is how you improve your economic conditions in Asia as well. Poor or not, the children's education comes first.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Of course. I think that's a culturally (and sometimes stereotypically) validated point. However, the connection between poverty and schooling, or lack thereof, is strong. You live in an impoverished neighborhood, what do you think the schools are going to be like?

Colin P.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Many Asians live in the worst parts of LA.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

So, what else is new?

I'll start off with the fact that almost every American has faced discrimination and injustice from where every they came. Asians specifically have faced a lot of injustice in Asia, and in the United States. US policies included exclusion acts, internments, and more. Now this.

So, we're back to the specific discrimination part, the schools are banning qualified students from California schools in place of less qualified ones who are supposedly less "advantaged".

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30393117/ns/us_news-life/t/asian-americans-blast-uc-admissions-policy/#.UxOE3oXfBNA

First of all, this policy is being passed. Second of all, Asians are not generally better off than any other minority. There are rich and poor, hard working or otherwise in any race. So, what gives one minority more of an advantage than another one? Nothing.

So, why are there policies that seem to indicate otherwise?

It impacts me, because my son has a friend who is a straight 'A' student taking AP classes and is good at programming computers already. He could work as a mid level programmer out of high school, he has written professionally used code. Yet he has trouble getting into California schools. He's probably going to Case Western Reserve on a 33% scholarship, but no California school is looking seriously at his applications due to this policy.

Giving "disadvantaged" students an unfair means of admission to a school could very likely make way for their failure in the school. Simply put, they are not as qualified as those that got in by having even higher academic standards than those cut off by these artificial barriers. There is a large gap in the abilities between those that get in through discriminatory admissions and the ones who made the cut in their own group.

I think the ACLU and affiliates have gone just a little too far this time, and it makes me think of all the non-minority students in the past that were equally discriminated against.

My cousins did this :

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1

All Asians should just change their last names and/or just put white for race.

Leave it up to a public institution to do something like this.

No offense Lihu, but ... where do you get any of that???? Β When you take out the title of the article, the picture of the Asian parents, and the complaints and conspiracy theories from Asian parents, this is what it says about the new policies:

"The primary goal is fairness and eliminating barriers that seem unnecessary," UC President Mark Yudof said. "It means that if you're a parent out there, more of your sons' and daughters' files will be reviewed."

One of the biggest changes is scrapping the requirement that applicants take two SAT subject tests. UC officials say the tests do little to predict who will succeed at UC, no other public university requires them, and many high-achieving students are disqualified because they do not take them.

The policy also widens the pool of candidates by allowing applications from all students who complete the required high school courses, take the main SAT or ACT exams and maintain a 3.0 grade-point average. Under the current policy, students have to rank in the top 12.5 percent of California high school graduates to be eligible.

Students still have to apply to individual campuses, where admissions officers are allowed to consider each applicants' grades, test scores, personal background, extracurricular activities and other factors but not race. "

Other than the part at the end that I emphasized, nowhere does it mention anything about race. Β Nor does it say anything about "banning" or "excluding" anybody. Β It just says that they will be able to consider a larger pool of applicants, and that there will be more competition for the spots.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

You only brought up the press release that says it will accept more applicants based upon factors other than the SAT tests. I will only address this issue in this post as there are many other aspects of the policy that is steering the education at these schools in the wrong direction as well. These tests are where many American Asians are strong, this is a fact. So, the new policy is specifically targeting American Asians. I am not sure how it will affect foreign born Asians since I don't have any of the admission data. Sports will gain a boost. Your quote states that "qualified applicants" who would not do well in these standardized tests, but would otherwise fit well at the UC schools would also benefit. Who are they? Generally, not Asians, but possibly other minorities? My guess is that applicants from abroad will also benefit from this. Non US applicants are also wealthier, and will pay full price for tuition and housing. Their weakness? More than likely the Verbal SAT scores which they are scrapping. Instead of having a generally higher level of education, the school will depend upon the higher level of the fewer local applicants who exceed the new bar of purely academic acceptance to keep the standards higher. They will get tuition from richer less qualified foreign applicants. They will recruit much better athletes with not so great academic standards. Who wins? The school. Is it fair? IDK, that's why I am posing this question to you guys to get a better feel. I would like to know how everyone feels about this.

:ping:Β  :tmade:Β Β :callaway:Β Β Β :gamegolf:Β Β :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

You only brought up the press release that says it will accept more applicants based upon factors other than the SAT tests. I will only address this issue in this post as there are many other aspects of the policy that is steering the education at these schools in the wrong direction as well. These tests are where many American Asians are strong, this is a fact. So, the new policy is specifically targeting American Asians. I am not sure how it will affect foreign born Asians since I don't have any of the admission data. Sports will gain a boost. Your quote states that "qualified applicants" who would not do well in these standardized tests, but would otherwise fit well at the UC schools would also benefit. Who are they? Generally, not Asians, but possibly other minorities? My guess is that applicants from abroad will also benefit from this. Non US applicants are also wealthier, and will pay full price for tuition and housing. Their weakness? More than likely the Verbal SAT scores which they are scrapping. Instead of having a generally higher level of education, the school will depend upon the higher level of the fewer local applicants who exceed the new bar of purely academic acceptance to keep the standards higher. They will get tuition from richer less qualified foreign applicants. They will recruit much better athletes with not so great academic standards. Who wins? The school. Is it fair? IDK, that's why I am posing this question to you guys to get a better feel. I would like to know how everyone feels about this.

I simply quoted statements about the policy from the article that YOU linked. And based only on that article, the policy seems completely fair to me because it will include more people in the application process without excluding anybody. How could you argue otherwise? I'm also likely always going to be for policies that lean less on standardized tests. They are a poor judge of talent, IMO. They show you who is good at prepping for and taking tests, not necessarily one who is most proficient in the material.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This is not due to poverty.


Just look at what prop 13 did to lower income school districts, and even though lottery money is generated way more in poorer districts the funds are evenly distributed.

Rich C.

Driver Titleist 915 D3Β  9.5*
3 Wood TM RBZ stage 2 tourΒ Β 14.5*
2 Hybrid Cobra baffler 17*
4Hybrid Adams 23*
Irons Adams CB2's 5-GW
Wedges 54* and 58* Titleist vokey
Putter Scotty Cameron square back 2014
Ball Srixon Zstar optic yellow
bushnell V2 slope edition

Link to comment
Share on other sites


My guess is that applicants from abroad will also benefit from this. Non US applicants are also wealthier, and will pay full price for tuition and housing. Their weakness? More than likely the Verbal SAT scores which they are scrapping.

Instead of having a generally higher level of education, the school will depend upon the higher level of the fewer local applicants who exceed the new bar of purely academic acceptance to keep the standards higher. They will get tuition from richer less qualified foreign applicants. They will recruit much better athletes with not so great academic standards.Who wins? The school. Is it fair? IDK, that's why I am posing this question to you guys to get a better feel.

I would like to know how everyone feels about this.

You mean you guys in California pass up "better athletes" in favor of better students? ;-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note:Β This thread is 3675 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic.Β Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • This is a loooooong winded narrative so if you don't like long stories, move on.Β πŸ˜‰ Our senior club typically gets about 25 new members each year. We lose about 25 members each year for various reasons (moved to FL/AZ, disabled, dead, too expensive). Of the new members, usually 20 have an active GHIN handicap. About 5 each year do not have a GHIN handicap. When they join our club, we give each member a state association membership that includes GHIN handicapping services. We play a series of handicapped tournaments over the summer. When we sign up a new member who does not have a GHIN handicap, we attempt to give them an estimated index until they have sufficient scores posted to have an actual GHIN index.Β  Our first event typically is around May 15 so, in theory, a new member has about 6 weeks to post a few scores. Posting season in the Mitten starts April 1. Inevitably, several of the unhandicapped individuals seemΒ  to either not play until the first tournament or can't figure out how to enter scores (hey, they are seniors). That situation then leads to my contacting the new member and asking a series of questions: a. Did you ever have a GHIN handicap? If yes, which State and do you recall what it was? b. Do you have an alternate handicap through a non-GHIN handicap service or a league? c. What do you think your average score was last year (for 9 or 18) d. What was your best score last year? Where did you play and which tee was used? e. What do you consider a very good score for yourself? Based on their responses I attempt to give them an index that makes them competitive in the first couple events BUT does not allow them to win their flight in the first couple events. We don't want the new members to finish last and at the same time, we don't want someone with a "20" playing handicap to win the third flight with a net 57. In the event some new member did shoot a net 57, we also advise everyone that we can and will adjust handicaps retroactively when it is clear to us that a member's handicap does not accurately reflect their potential. We don't like to adjust things retroactively and in the 8 years I have chaired the Handicap Committee, we have only done it once. So here are the questions to the mob: Any ideas how to do this better? Any questions one might ask an unhandicapped individual to better estimate their index/handicap? Would it be reasonable to have a new player play once (or more?) without being eligible to place in the money?
    • Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟨 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Awesome! I got that a while back with my start word! Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜⬜🟨⬜🟨 ⬜🟨⬜🟩⬜ ⬜⬜🟩🟩🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,013 4/6* ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟨 🟨🟨⬜🟨⬜ 🟨🟨🟨⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,013 3/6 🟩⬜🟨⬜🟨 🟩🟨⬜🟨⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Γ—
Γ—
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...