Country clubs are an american standard

[Strausy007]

Quote:

That is a perfect example of a gem.  They are all over the place.  It would be nice if you could share your golfing news on my forum (country club talk) so others can understand where the good things are.  The idea is to share personal stories about your love for golf and your home course

I think you may be confused.  The course I was referring to is a public course, that offers a yearly card for unlimited greens fees.

[RFKFREAK]

I think most of the posts are great for perspective but some important points are forgotten.  yes, country clubs are expensive but they are an investment.  your 50,000 dollar membership equals a piece of stock in the club.  That being said in two years the value might be double, I've seen it!!  Many clubs start to offer discounts for next generation members which even strengthens the choice.  The reason people join country clubs is the same reason they send their kids to private school.  They have the money too, for one, and they want the best.  The environment is great to raise children for those you are younger members.  Very little trouble, the pros are endless and of course there are some cons but I bet they are much surpassed.

I am at a club now in Orlando that is by invitation only now I know that sounds a little pretentious and waspy but let me say this.  wouldn't you want to invite your friends to fish where the fishing is good?  Moreover, I've seen people form great business relations and start their own companies.  I know some members who networked with each other and now they just create boutique banks and sell them to bigger banks making millions together and traveling about.  All because they joined the club and met the clientele.  Its like joining an investment syndicate and with power comes opportunities, hookups.  you can tap into everyone elses connections.  Whether you like it or not making more money helps your retirement be more fruitful and the ability to tap into the talent pool with other successful people is very nice to think about.  I haven't forgot about golf either I wanted to bring in some other aspects of clubs that I think is why they still have a stronghold in some areas.  If you have time just take a look at south florida, specifically naples and palm beach gardens it will give you different opinions.

please respond and share.

Maybe it's because I'm a working class guy who has never had that kind of spread but I could never see myself spending $50,000 to join a golf club.

I'm sure most people have heard of the stories about cutting deals on the golf course, and I guess I could see people joining a club where it costs $50,000 to be a member if you're making millions off an investment that started because you were able to connect with someone at said club.  But I think that that mentality is what puts people off to golf and think of it as a rich man's game.

Having never played at a course like that, I guess I don't know how much better it is but most of the public courses that I've played in Long Island and Albany seem to be maintained in good to great condition and, tbh, I don't know how much "better" a course could be maintained.

The one benefit that I'd see immediately is not having a round of 18 holes taking more than 4 hours, but, absent that, I couldn't justify stretching myself thin to join a club.  But, hey, that's just one man's opinion.

[Dave2512]

It's a misconception that CC's are too expensive for the middle class to afford. I could join a nice private club now for just 1K, in fact they've been trying to sign me up for more than a year. Monthly dues are an affordable $400 and quarterly food and bev requirement is just $200. The reason I haven't is it's 30-40 minutes from my home and office. I work six days a week and most of my golf is played before and after work. I had a contract on a townhouse along the course in 2012 but I got out of the deal and with that my interest in joining the club waned. I spend more golfing at public courses than I would if I was a member there, in the summer there are weeks I spend more than $400 golfing. Still can't justify it due to the travel time and annual assessments are also a concern. I don't want to be on the hook for assessments for a course I don't live on and can't play frequently.

[w0lverine]

It's a misconception that CC's are too expensive for the middle class to afford. I could join a nice private club now for just 1K, in fact they've been trying to sign me up for more than a year. Monthly dues are an affordable $400 and quarterly food and bev requirement is just $200. The reason I haven't is it's 30-40 minutes from my home and office. I work six days a week and most of my golf is played before and after work. I had a contract on a townhouse along the course in 2012 but I got out of the deal and with that my interest in joining the club waned. I spend more golfing at public courses than I would if I was a member there, in the summer there are weeks I spend more than $400 golfing. Still can't justify it due to the travel time and annual assessments are also a concern. I don't want to be on the hook for assessments for a course I don't live on and can't play frequently.

I might be a little biased since I live in south florida.  down here we play 365 days.  I guess the price of these clubs down here reflect the playability of the courses.  You have to admit it sounds nice to play whenever you want.  That also keeps the traffic down on public/semi private courses.  Many people come down here seasonally (money is necessary) for our winter while enjoying there summer when they return.  That also could be an option, there are many great investment (seasonal properties)

[RFKFREAK]

It's a misconception that CC's are too expensive for the middle class to afford. I could join a nice private club now for just 1K, in fact they've been trying to sign me up for more than a year. Monthly dues are an affordable $400 and quarterly food and bev requirement is just $200. The reason I haven't is it's 30-40 minutes from my home and office. I work six days a week and most of my golf is played before and after work. I had a contract on a townhouse along the course in 2012 but I got out of the deal and with that my interest in joining the club waned. I spend more golfing at public courses than I would if I was a member there, in the summer there are weeks I spend more than $400 golfing. Still can't justify it due to the travel time and annual assessments are also a concern. I don't want to be on the hook for assessments for a course I don't live on and can't play frequently.

I guess it depends on where you fall in the spectrum of, "middle class."

I've seen it defined as a range in salary from $33,000-$100,000 so I guess it depends on where you fall in that spectrum and what expenses a family has.

I think if you're married or living with a significant other and have a combined income of $100,000 with 2 kids and a mortgage, depending on what other expenses one might have, I could see how spending $7,000 for a membership could be deemed too expensive.

Just poking my head around some of the clubs in the Albany NY region, I found one that is semiprivate with dues to $3,500 a year for an individual which has to be paid in four installments between the end of Feb. and the end of August and a private place that runs $4,800 a year, and a third with an initiation fee $1,250 and annual dues $7,440.

And this for roughly six months of playing time.

So, I guess it all depends.  One thing, I doubt a lower middle class person could afford any of those places.  Haha.

[Spitfisher]

a country club that embraces the entire "family" pool, yoga, exercise, nice restaurant as well as casual fare during the day, day care, instruction, function rooms for outside activities, excellent customer service, and last but not least a decent but user friendly golf course...will be successful, complete with a women's league, women's instructing.  More money is being spent by women and monetary decisions are being made more and more  by women for the families. On average, The men may still earn it most or all of it, but the women decide how it will be spent

That above is the what has been missing, instead courses only were being built with fewer amenities. Golf clubs built the 80s and early 90s were becoming too much about golf and not enough about the whole family....consequently the sport missed an entire generation of kids growing up with golf and now its showing in golf lack of growth and decline.

I believe one of the major factors to  turn around this trend will be the financially closing of courses and any new courses will be embrace the family's needs in order to be successful.

[newtogolf]

a country club that embraces the entire "family" pool, yoga, exercise, nice restaurant as well as casual fare during the day, day care, instruction, function rooms for outside activities, excellent customer service, and last but not least a decent but user friendly golf course...will be successful, complete with a women's league, women's instructing.  More money is being spent by women and monetary decisions are being made more and more  by women for the families. On average, The men may still earn it most or all of it, but the women decide how it will be spent

That above is the what has been missing, instead courses only were being built with fewer amenities. Golf clubs built the 80s and early 90s were becoming too much about golf and not enough about the whole family....consequently the sport missed an entire generation of kids growing up with golf and now its showing in golf lack of growth and decline.

I believe one of the major factors to  turn around this trend will be the financially closing of courses and any new courses will be embrace the family's needs in order to be successful.

I agree with this, our club is very family focused.  They host cooking classes, card games, tennis lessons, junior lessons, men/ women / junior and mixed leagues and plenty of other activities and outings centered around the family.  We are adding a large workout facility loaded with equipment this year for members and family as well, with yoga classes for men and women.

It's a bit pricier than some others, but their amenities are much greater and well worth the difference.

[MS256]

Just some thoughts from what I've noticed:

The country club member is more likely to play golf with his wife and kids than the public course player if both are avid golfers. Costs for a single player is comparable between the two but for an entire family to play (if they play very often) a club is almost a financial necessity.

Another benefit of the country club is that the sons and daughters of club members are more likely to want to keep a golf lifestyle when they are on their own (which grows the game). They are also more likely to be the elite golfers on the high school teams and beyond.

If I am correct that the country club grows the game more than the public course, because their families are less likely to play, I might also make the connection that the tax payer is subsidizing the restriction of growth in many places (including my local area). The city courses are cheap enough to keep many golfers from joining a club. They can and do play several times a week with their buddies for a little less money than the country club dues and also get to play multiple courses. (But the family is at home).

A hidden factor is that a big reason the city courses can compete with the clubs on cost is that they can and do lose money. The little city 9 hole course here lost $100,000 last year. They also have access to a city workforce and equipment that they can acquire for special projects with nothing more than a phone call.

Not exactly fair to the private course owner trying to compete that certainly can't afford to throw away $100,000 or the country club members that don't have the luxury of deficit spending. The private owner only has the option of cutting costs and the country club has the options of cutting costs and/or membership assessments (which everybody hates including "rich people"). Very many assessments and the first thing you know they drop their membership and also play at the city course.

[Seniorhacker]

There are so many places here in central NC and in the surrounding area that being a member of a private club is not that advantageous. We can go to the mountains or toward the coast with Pinehurst in between and play courses that are just as good or better than most of the private clubs. Years ago I had a membership at a great club with a wonderful golf course but I got tired of playing the same layout over and over. With the cost of dues I felt obligated to play all my golf there and wasn't able to travel with the guys as much as I would like.

The economy also plays into private clubs, there have been quite a few private clubs to go under,  being taken over by management groups to run as semi-public courses. I've seen too many guys cough up big money to join a private club, then after a few years give up their membership to have a little more flexibility in where they play there golf.

If you run a business and need to entertain guests, the private club is the way to go. If not, private clubs just do not have the benefits that they once had.

[w0lverine]

I guess it depends on where you fall in the spectrum of, "middle class." I've seen it defined as a range in salary from $33,000-$100,000 so I guess it depends on where you fall in that spectrum and what expenses a family has. I think if you're married or living with a significant other and have a combined income of $100,000 with 2 kids and a mortgage, depending on what other expenses one might have, I could see how spending $7,000 for a membership could be deemed too expensive. Just poking my head around some of the clubs in the Albany NY region, I found one that is semiprivate with dues to $3,500 a year for an individual which has to be paid in four installments between the end of Feb. and the end of August and a private place that runs $4,800 a year, and a third with an initiation fee $1,250 and annual dues $7,440. And this for roughly six months of playing time. So, I guess it all depends.  One thing, I doubt a lower middle class person could afford any of those places.  Haha.

semi-private are nice too I must say. You can still join mens leagues you can still reciprocate, you can still receive somewhat private style call privileges. And best of all your dudes can stay low because you have so much public play to help the money come in.

[ghalfaire]

I guess folks join Country Clubs for different reasons.  When I retired I purchased a small townhouse in the mountains to avoid the summer heat (and electric bills) in the Valley of the Sun.   But there was only one public course in town and it is an executive course, nice but not what I wanted to play all the time.  So the nearest public course was about 18 miles away and while not a bad course it too was not a course I wanted to play a lot.  The next public course is almost 30 miles from my home and is a great course.  So my first summer I joined the men's club and played there.  But the drive gets old and expense of putting 180 miles a week on the vehicle also get old.  So I finally gave up and joined one of the two local Private Country Clubs.   I am not really a Country Club sort of fellow (a stereotype that turns out to be wrong) but I have been pleased with my choice over the 9 years I have been a member.  The club is a family oriented club so I can play with the Grandkids when they come up and they are consider family so no guest fees.  There is an activity center for kids of all ages and two week long golf clinic for the kids at $15/head.  The course is not a great course but a good one and interesting enough I don't mind playing there 2-3 times a week.  I did know a few of the members when I joined and that helps some in getting to know the other members.

So to not bore you any further for me it was a good choice and the club is doing well even in this economy (only a very few memberships are available).

Having said all of this I don't belong to a private club in the Valley of the Sun as I just don't see a need with so many great public access courses in the area.

[ay33660]

Reasons I joined a private club:

1.  Tee times on the weekends. I play in a regular group that ALWAYS has a tee time within the first 1/2 of the openning morning tee time. I am able to book online 12 days in advance and while it is a draw, I have never had my tee time vary by more than 1/2 hour of my requested tee time.

2.  Pace of play. As expected on my early morning tee times I will finish in well under 4 hours, usually 3.5 hrs or less. When I go out in the afternoon the worse time would be 4.5 hrs and usually in the late afternoon I can get 9 hole in well under 2 hours.

3.  I can play less than 18 holes on a regular basis. A bonus is that my course wraps back to the club house on many holes other than 9 and 18. In fact I can finish after holes 5, 13, 16 and have a short walk back to the club house.

4.  My club is a "cashless" club in that we sign for all transaction while at the club. When I take clients there I do not have to take my wallet out to purchase anything as I would have to at a public course. It just take away the uncomfortable situation of always having to rush up to the cart girl, 9th hole grill etc so that I ensure I pay for my client.

5.  As a personal rule I don't talk business while I am at the club. I don't solicit for business nor do I wish to have other members solicit for my business. However you do build up relationships with other members who are often leaders or senior members in their respective business or line of work. This allows me access to people that may help my friends or clients. An example is a relationship that I built up with a very senior member in a specialists area, he is so successful that he does not take on new clients. One of my good clients needed help in that area and I was able to secure an appointment with this member for my client even though he does not normally take on new clients.

I am envious of those of you who live in the southern part of the US as you have access to so many courses. Up here in the Pacific North West we just don't have that many courses and consequently in order to get a regular tee time a private club is the only way to go. In addition, a couple of the posters here mentioned that $50,000 to join a club is expensive, well up here that would be below the average initiation fee for a private club.

[RFKFREAK]

a couple of the posters here mentioned that $50,000 to join a club is expensive, well up here that would be below the average initiation fee for a private club.

And that to me is sick, haha.

That being said, if one can afford it, who am I to say it's not worth it to them.

[Dave2512]

Even the clubs with gated communities and courses lined with million+ dollars home aren't 50k to join here. Some of the Denver Broncos live on the course at the club I could join for 1k.

[1484]

Reasons I joined a private club:

1.  Tee times on the weekends. I play in a regular group that ALWAYS has a tee time within the first 1/2 of the openning morning tee time. I am able to book online 12 days in advance and while it is a draw, I have never had my tee time vary by more than 1/2 hour of my requested tee time.

2.  Pace of play. As expected on my early morning tee times I will finish in well under 4 hours, usually 3.5 hrs or less. When I go out in the afternoon the worse time would be 4.5 hrs and usually in the late afternoon I can get 9 hole in well under 2 hours.

3.  I can play less than 18 holes on a regular basis. A bonus is that my course wraps back to the club house on many holes other than 9 and 18. In fact I can finish after holes 5, 13, 16 and have a short walk back to the club house.

4.  My club is a "cashless" club in that we sign for all transaction while at the club. When I take clients there I do not have to take my wallet out to purchase anything as I would have to at a public course. It just take away the uncomfortable situation of always having to rush up to the cart girl, 9th hole grill etc so that I ensure I pay for my client.

5.  As a personal rule I don't talk business while I am at the club. I don't solicit for business nor do I wish to have other members solicit for my business. However you do build up relationships with other members who are often leaders or senior members in their respective business or line of work. This allows me access to people that may help my friends or clients. An example is a relationship that I built up with a very senior member in a specialists area, he is so successful that he does not take on new clients. One of my good clients needed help in that area and I was able to secure an appointment with this member for my client even though he does not normally take on new clients.

I am envious of those of you who live in the southern part of the US as you have access to so many courses. Up here in the Pacific North West we just don't have that many courses and consequently in order to get a regular tee time a private club is the only way to go. In addition, a couple of the posters here mentioned that $50,000 to join a club is expensive, well up here that would be below the average initiation fee for a private club.

Agree with all of these.  Will add how nice it is to play 2 some or 3 some whenever you want without being paired.  That also factors into pace of play.    I joined a country club because it was less than 5 minutes from my front door.  The ability to leave my house at 6:45, play 18 and be home before 10 a.m. is priceless. The initiation fee + monthly/rounds played will NEVER pencil out but it's all about how much value you place on the convenience, access, relationships  etc. etc.  I also agree with other posters that while it still doesn't make pure financial sense, when you have multiple kids in the house also playing and then you add on the pool and the tennis and the other social events, it's a nice over all quality of life boost.

[SoundandFury]

I think the draw is not having to put up with the people who frequent courses like Rancho Park, WIlson, and Harding.  I joined a club 6 months ago and it's been fantastic.  I can go out whenever I want, i have a grass range to practice at whenever I want, and I never have to worry about getting paired up with a 3 ball of guys who insist on playing from the blacks even though they're terrible golfers.  That's not to say there aren't some great public courses in LA (Robinson Ranch is fantastic), but I simply can't put up with the munie regulars.

[SoundandFury]

And that's not to mention the natural networking and client development you have access to.

[w0lverine]

Can somebody please explain to me what the no tee time system is? in detail?