• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
RainmanP

Right elbow - new swing theory?

27 posts in this topic

As you may know from reading other posts I have just started playing again after a long layoff. I have been watching tournaments on TV and have a question about a big difference in swings from what I was taught. I guess theories have changed.

I was taught to keep the right elbow in close to my side on the back swing. Keeping that elbow quiet is one of my two swing cues. Now it looks like all the pros have a huge "flying right elbow" as it used to be called. Is the idea that this increases the distance the clubhead travels and thereby allows additional time for increasing acceleration and, therefore, distance?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

As you may know from reading other posts I have just started playing again after a long layoff. I have been watching tournaments on TV and have a question about a big difference in swings from what I was taught. I guess theories have changed.

Yeah, it would seem that the quest for the big arch has lead to the flying elbow. It works for them because they come back down the swing plane, where regular guys tend to go over the top from that position.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it would seem that the quest for the big arch has lead to the flying elbow. It works for them because they come back down the swing plane, where regular guys tend to go over the top from that position.

"They" say the modern swing has a longer arc and offers more power--they say.

I'm not sure that the hands-higher-than-the-head, right-upper-arm-and-forearm-at-a-right-angle swing that the top teachers are pushing has all that wider a swing arc than the hands-above-the-right-shoulder right-elbow-tucked-against-the-body flattish swing that we were taught by Hogan-influenced golf instructors. Here's why. With either swing, the left arm is straight at the top: so, whether the left arm is on a plane with the shoulder line or higher than the shoulder line on a different plane thanks to a flying elbow, isn't the swing arc necessarily the same? And in fact, don't you get more leverage if the arms swing back on a line with the shoulders instead of on a diferent plane?
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

very good answer tom. let me tell you jimmy ballards idea. th e right arm must come away for extention. you would not throw a ball with the elbow next to your side.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it would seem that the quest for the big arch has lead to the flying elbow. It works for them because they come back down the swing plane, where regular guys tend to go over the top from that position.

What do you guys mean by "over the top"?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys mean by "over the top"?

Instead of bringing your hands back inside on the downswing it means you are moving your hands outside the swing plane and coming down across the ball. The result will be a push (slice). This is also known as cutting across the ball.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of bringing your hands back inside on the downswing it means you are moving your hands outside the swing plane and coming down across the ball. The result will be a push (slice). This is also known as cutting across the ball.

Just a quick clarification. Coming over the top never results in a push. It results in either a slice (clubface square, path out-to-in) or a pull (clubface closed a little, path out-to-in). In rare cases it leads to duck-hooks (clubface even more closed, path still out-to-in).

A push and a slice aren't the same thing. Let's be careful about the language we use here... we've got a lot of it, I realize, but we've gotta use it correctly.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Just a quick clarification. Coming over the top never results in a push. It results in either a slice (clubface square, path out-to-in) or a pull (clubface closed a little, path out-to-in). In rare cases it leads to duck-hooks (clubface even more closed, path still out-to-in).

I used to come over the top, and I always hit it around 10-15 yards left....not a slice....just left. That was a push to me...

"Push” Glossary From Brent Kelley, Your Guide to Golf. Definition: A ball that flies to the right of the intended target for a right-handed player, and to the left of the target for a left-handed player. A push is the opposite of a pull. A push is distinguished from a slice by the fact that a slice curves to the right (for a righthander) while a push travels on a straight path to the right. http://golf.about.com/cs/golfterms/g/bldef_push.htm
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to come over the top, and I always hit it around 10-15 yards left....not a slice....just left. That was a push to me...

Then you weren't coming over the top. It'd be impossible to come over the top, hit the ball right of your intended line for a righty (or left for a lefty), and not curve the ball.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

I just read a part of a Jack Nicklaus book where Jack talks about his elbow being out. He didn't consider it to be a "flying elbow", but it is definately not in. Jack mentions that this is a way to add distance.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My $.02:

Somewhere lately I saw a quote attributed to Hogan: " 'Coming over the top' -- What the h*ll does that mean?"
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My $.02:

over the top

(also "coming over the top") a downswing path or plane above, or over, the correct or desired plane, causing the path of the club through impact to be across from outside to inside the target line Example: Coming over the top is a very common characteristic of hackers, usually resulting in a slice or pull.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is something I tend to do: my hips, shoulders, and arms move out of synch and I blade the ball. Am trying to fix by concentrating on coming at the ball from the inside and keeping the shoulders square to the ball at impact.

As for the Hogan quote: If he really said it, maybe he was kidding. Some people claim William Ben had a sense of humor.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'm not sure if Ben was kidding, but as the previous poster stated it is a VERY common problem among new players and those of us who have it creep in sometime.

A proper downswing starts with the hips then shoulders which pull the arms and club down to the ball. New golfers tend to swing with their arms, so instead of the clubhead dropping down to the ball along a plane in line with the shoulders it tends to loop "over the top" following path over and in front of the shoulders approaching the ball on an outside/in path resulting in slices.

Keeping that right elbow tucked in or bringing it back down to the right side is one of the things that helps prevent an over the top swing.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant believe there are people who like golf enough to sign up for a website to blog about it but dont know what a push or coming over the top mean.  any of you with a handicap over 20 and consistently slice the ball are coming over the top.  I dont need to know anything else about your swing.  it may feel like you are coming from the inside but i guarantee when you get to the top your throwing your hands forward.  your divots dont lie.  if theyre left of your target your coming over the top and cutting across the ball

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Rip24

I cant believe there are people who like golf enough to sign up for a website to blog about it but dont know what a push or coming over the top mean.  any of you with a handicap over 20 and consistently slice the ball are coming over the top.  I dont need to know anything else about your swing.  it may feel like you are coming from the inside but i guarantee when you get to the top your throwing your hands forward.  your divots dont lie.  if theyre left of your target your coming over the top and cutting across the ball


Aren't there posts from within the past five years that you could respond to?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Over the top.

Looking at the swing from down-the-line perspective, draw from the ball and up the shaft when it is at impact and extended all the way up trough the player's body. This is the plane line.  Different swings get to this position different way but everyone gets to this position. Most good swings keep the shaft under that plane line during the swing.

From the top of a backswing, a swing is "over-the-top" if the shaft is above the swing plane while coming down. For many, including me, this is because I start my downswing by moving the trail shoulder forward toward the ball. This creates an over-the-top swing that means the swing path is outside to inside as you are getting to the ball. It is probably the most common swing fault.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the trail elbow, I like mine to FEEL like it is in tight. It is not really "tight" and does not touch my side -- maybe 4-5 inches from my side in reality. The flying elbow issue for me is my trail forearm getting flat (instead of staying up-and-down) and the elbow flying out behind my side. My longest and straightest shots feel like the elbow is tight near my body and my lead arm feels straight. My tempo feels slow, my backswing feels short, and my hips feel fully turned. On video, the difference between what feels great and what feels awful is hardly noticeable.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Golf Evolution
  • Posts

    • 2016 Waste Management Phoenix Open Discussion
      Actually, they mentioned today that it's an environmental requirement imposed by the government; local, state or federal, they weren't sure.
    • Steel vs Graphite generic question
      Spin is OK though? I could be flipping a little but I may need work on Key #3 to get that launch down to where it needs to be... Because I SHOULD be carrying my 7-iron 160-165 with that speed.  Maybe the motor is fine (the shaft), just need to work on in-line impact more...
    • Finding Value in The Used Club Market
      I'm liking this:   That makes a lot of sense.  Local Retailers may be getting some of the last years models dumped on them when the new clubs start cycling through.  I was thinking about doing the demo days thing to get a taste of what is out there.  The R7 limited and R11 Taylormade Drivers were good to me.  I think a X2 hot/Big Bertha/etc/ect would probably be more forgiving.  Still, I look at the clubs of old... the Cleveland Launcher Comp / Callaway Hawkeye and think: "If I can buy that club for $20... and I can buy newer (used) for $50-$100... hmmm.  Spinning the wheels.  Thanks for the advice though I really appreciate it. If anyone has a Driver / had a Driver they loved from (2009-2014) let me know about it!  What did you like/didn't like?
    • My ex-home courses closing, changing - proofs that golf is in decline
      I just found out that my ex-home course, Sunol Valley Golf course, went out of business last month.  I played 2 - 3 times a week for 2 years not too long ago.  The course was done in by shrinking golfers, and 500% increase in water cost in the last 4 years of CA drought.  They could not make money.   Another ex-home course is now doing business as a golf and foot golf (soccer golf) course.  Golfing customers were not enough. Another course nearby (Santa Clara Tennis and Golf Club) is going to turn into a parking lot for a recently built football stadium. It is sad that despite improved economy in Bay Area, CA, golf business is in decline.  They have been in decline since 1990s but most of the courses around here survived 2008-9 recession.  The current drought and the resulting water cost going through the roof appears to be the final nail in the coffin for the weaker courses.   Sad.
    • Injury Question
      I didn't play golf for about 11 weeks due to it being difficult to play with work after day light savings time fell back.  Now, from the sounds of it, I played through the majority of the repair time as I walked 9 holes 4-5 times a week with 1 day of walking 18 for 7-9 weeks after the injury....I know, I'm an idiot. As it stands now I don't really notice it 90% of the time, its just something that pops up on a swing every now and then.  From the sounds of your healing time, I may have caused it to heal improperly leaving me with a hitch....  If I really just need to not do anything and it'll heal over time then I'd gladly do it, kicking and screaming the entire way as I already had a plan in place to push my handicap into the single digits by years end. I don't like the sound of having something happen as "I get older," I'm only 26 damn it .
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. onthehunt526
      onthehunt526
      (29 years old)
  • Blog Entries