Right elbow - new swing theory?

[MackJL06]

erik...i have been on this forum for a couple years now...been through the Ping eye 2 zz-lite shaft guy, some of the bots that have gotten through and everything....and what you said was probably the best/funniest thing i have seen on here.

that being said, keeping the right elbow "tucked"...is that more of an aide to keep you from that OOT swing? i have a consistent inside-out swing path and i try to get the feeling of the right elbow tucked into my side on the DOWNswing...but on the backswing i have never felt comfortable getting my right elbow into a position like yours is in your Avatar.

Originally Posted by iacas

Aren't there posts from within the past five years that you could respond to?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MackJL06

erik...i have been on this forum for a couple years now...been through the Ping eye 2 zz-lite shaft guy, some of the bots that have gotten through and everything....and what you said was probably the best/funniest thing i have seen on here.

Thanks. And kudos and thanks to you because you might have revived the thread. I'll answer your question below - who frickin' knows what the thread is supposed to be about, but let's roll with it!

Originally Posted by MackJL06

that being said, keeping the right elbow "tucked"...is that more of an aide to keep you from that OOT swing? i have a consistent inside-out swing path and i try to get the feeling of the right elbow tucked into my side on the DOWNswing...but on the backswing i have never felt comfortable getting my right elbow into a position like yours is in your Avatar.

There's a few ways to get over the top. Some people will simply carry their right shoulder out above the plane and regardless of how "tucked" their right elbow might be, they're virtually certain to come over the top if the move is even a bit more than "very slight." Others will let their elbows pull apart from each other quite a bit and will come over the top from there.

I would advocate a right elbow position that's a few inches off the rib cage and then, on the downswing, going into what's called more of a "pitch elbow" position - the elbow pinches in towards the belly button a little.

More information on pitch elbow both here at Richie3Jack and more on pitch elbow here on The Sand Trap (linked to largely for the Dustin Johnson image showing pitch elbow).

[MackJL06]

i tend to get my elbow in a vertical position...but clearly separated from my body...if i dont i feel trapped. got myself a FH-100 to do the slow-mo stuff so while i am waiting for videos to get on youtube...here is a snapshot of the top of my swing. i get the feeling of the right arm against my hip (ish) coming down on the downswing...but yeah you can clearly see the separation. would this be considered a "big" issue...or is consistency a key here?

[pokezfan93]

Hey Erik,

I was just reading this thread and thought that I would ask a quick question to see if you might be able to help.  I've always played with the "fly-away" right elbow because for some reason trying to keep my right elbow tucked into my side is very uncomfortable, and I've never had a problem until about the last 5 years.  Now, I certainly don't play as much golf as I would like to any more, but when I get the duck hook/pull scenario, it usually happens with my driver, wood, and normally from my 3-5 irons.  Once I get past those clubs, I have no issues what-so-ever, and if I miss greens it's usually from an alignment issue, which I just need to pay more attention to.  Anyways, when I hook the ball it feels like I finish my shot with my weight on the back foot, and it also feels like my hands come across my body and my hips flew open (hips are facing the target before my hands ever get past my hips on the downswing), so it feels way more like I'm hitting a baseball then swinging a golf club.  Do you have any suggestions for drills on how to slow my hips down without losing the elbow or getting into the habit of swaying (which I've tried not to do either).  The more I try to self-diagnose the more messed up and confused I get.

Thanks,

Bryon

[fmk123ster]

thanks for the sound advice... will try that... !

Frank

[Rip24]

Originally Posted by MackJL06

i tend to get my elbow in a vertical position...but clearly separated from my body...if i dont i feel trapped. got myself a FH-100 to do the slow-mo stuff so while i am waiting for videos to get on youtube...here is a snapshot of the top of my swing. i get the feeling of the right arm against my hip (ish) coming down on the downswing...but yeah you can clearly see the separation. would this be considered a "big" issue...or is consistency a key here?

Is this the very top of your swing?  Looks a touch laid off from this angle.  Im no expert but this would be a "big issue" if showed up to my swing coach with this in my backswing.  I think idealy you would want your hands to work back a bit more and your elbow much more underneath the butt of the club.  Check out IACS's profile pic for a solid position you would want to get into.   Id be interested to know what your usuall ball flight is....Its really easy to cut the ball from this position, or should I say kind of difficult to come from the inside from this position.

[MackJL06]

that is the top of my swing and my standard ball flight is a push-draw. i drop it back in to the slot pretty well.

laid-off meaning i need to have it at a steeper angle at the top? i have tried in the past trying to get my elbow in a more vertical position, but it always feels so unnatural.

could you enlighten me more on how being laid-off effects the down-swing? also, i have a thread about my swing with video if you care to take a gander at that and give me some pointers :)

i still need to post an update or two on there

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Good to be back in the thread after, what?, six years?

Being taught by a Hogan-influenced college instructor 40 years ago, I most always kept my right elbow close to my right side even at the top of the swing.  It's a flat swing, with the left arm in about the same plane as across the shoulders.

I have had a problem with my club "crossing the line" and then coming down into the ball in an outside-to-inside loop, which produces a slice.

Don't do that much now, and think the reason is a better swing thought and understanding of the golf swing.    The cure started with the book The Search for the Perfect Swing , a British book going back to 1968.  That book made clear that the typical pro golf swing is in a loop (maybe several loops and whirligigs but not ideally so).  The clubhead is taken back high and vertically (one of my biggest mistakes was to take the clubhead back too quickly and too flat, with the bad swing cue of having the club face vertical when the shaft was parallel to the ground).   Then, from the top of the swing , the clubhead drops down and attacks the ball on a lower arc.

All of which is related to the concepts of "the magic move" with the right elbow and "dropping down into the slot."

You can see this "dropping down" on the photos of pro swings taken from the side.  Look at the shaft angle on the backswing and at a similar point on the downswing--typically the shaft will be at a lower angle to the ground on the downswing.  Nick Price especially shows this, but most do.   Especially when the right arm is away from the body at the top of the backswing.

So on the backswing I cue myself to have the clubface less than vertical when the shaft is parallel to the ground which has me taking the club up more vertically, and then on the downswing, I am aware that the approach to the ball will be flatter than on the backswing.    That thought makes keeps my right elbow tight to the right side and low.

Does this conflict with the idea of a "single plane swing"?   I think it does.  A true single plane swing should have no loop as seen from the side.

[bunkerputt]

Why don't you try the Jim Flick method?  Take your address, fold the elbows up and lift the club up, laying it on your neck next to your right ear.  Then make your turn and extend your hands out in front as far as you can, i.e. straighten your right arm as much as you can.  I tend to let the club drift too far behind me and then I come too far from the inside resulting in a miss left.  This drill helps me get my extension back and keeps my hands and arms higher in swing plane.  Also, take a look at your grip.  It looks pretty weak from the photo.