High handicapper "blow up holes"

[hopefulhacker]

it is possible he only has one wild drive per 3 rounds.

It is possible that I'll shoot a 59 in my next round, but not probable.

[Lihu]

It is possible that I'll shoot a 59 in my next round, but not probable.

What I was saying is that if he drives 200 yards, then it is possible that he only hits one errant drive per 3 rounds. IDK, what he considers errant.

I don't think he is stating he hits 14 fairways per round for two rounds then 13 on the 3rd round.

[billchao]

at least for me, a miss with an iron is generally still [U]straight[/U] .  it doesn't go the distance i wanted, but i at least have a make-up shot from the fairway.   a miss with a wood is generally OB or on an adjacent hole, which can actually add more distance for my second shot than if i had simply played an iron off the tee. again, to each his own.  what works for one person won't work for another.  my point was just not to get caught up in distance, and play a round or two w/o driver and woods.  usually anyone who gives that an honest try surprises themselves.

I find it hard to believe that you can misfit a driver 40+ yards offline, but your miss with an iron is generally straight, but I don't know you or your skill level, so I'll take your word for it. My suggestion to you would be to get fitted for new woods and a driver, because there might be an equipment issue there. I have played rounds with no driver, and I've played rounds with no woods at all. I've found no significant difference in scoring. Turns out, it's just as hard to hit GIR with 5i-5i as it is to hit driver-8i. I've shot par on par 5s teeing off with irons, and I've also shot double and triple bogeys. Not a panacea.

[Lihu]

I find it hard to believe that you can misfit a driver 40+ yards offline, but your miss with an iron is generally straight, but I don't know you or your skill level, so I'll take your word for it. My suggestion to you would be to get fitted for new woods and a driver, because there might be an equipment issue there.

I have played rounds with no driver, and I've played rounds with no woods at all. I've found no significant difference in scoring. Turns out, it's just as hard to hit GIR with 5i-5i as it is to hit driver-8i. I've shot par on par 5s teeing off with irons, and I've also shot double and triple bogeys. Not a panacea.

I'll go even further in saying that this is probably due to your superior ball striking (from seeing your swing videos), because my score would most definitely be lower hitting only irons.

Driver-8i is so much easier to hit GIR for me. Without driver, I can only hit occasional GIR on some par 3s. The odds that I can hit two really good 5i (even with my "short" 175 carry) in a row are really low. I can barely hit my 3i to 6i as it is.

[dbrock504]

The problem I have is putting together a complete round! By that I mean a good front and back 9!

I can have a starting front 9 in the low 40's but will then screw it up on the back nine and crawl in with something in the 50's! Or I'll shoot something in the 50's and then scream back with a 42 on the back 9!!!

I tell you the day I string two good nines together I'm going to be just a bit above average! :)

Regards,

Mailman

This is also what I find kills me. If I could put a solid round together, I would shoot in the 80's. My front 9 is always bad (48-51) and my back 9 is always good (41-44). My lowest score is a 92 (49/43). I am itching to get in the 80's!!!

[mattgunner25]

I struggle with slowing down on my next shot after a poor one.  For some reason, I feel inclined to get to the ball and slap at it as soon as possible when I duff a shot.  The most "low hanging fruit" I've noticed in blow up holes is just to relax and think through your second or third shot from the rough/sand/behind-a-tree.  It's allowed me to turn the quadruple bogies into just bogies

[isukgolf]

My rule is ... and I don't always adhere to it ... is not follow a bad with a worse shot ... I shank it in the woods ... instead of trying a hero shot, sometimes I am better off just chipping back out on the fairway...  however, most of my blow up holes are spent being mad at the last shot, and not thinking/playing the shot I am on ...  easier said than done, but forget the last even happened ... think about the shot your abut to make and think positive

[Pushy]

I am sometimes guilty of giving up on a hole when it goes bad.  I'll do a wretched job of chipping and putting that adds an unnecessary stroke or two to the score for that hole.  It takes discipline to settle down and work hard to just minimize the damage.

[PirateJim]

Apologies for the loose term, just read it on another thread and it certainly applies to me.

Been playing since July last year. Nearly a year in and I've still only shot a personal best of 102 and forever staying a handicap of 28.

Lately I've improved a lot (last round 103), and I feel I'm starting to make great progress, albeit slowly. There's ALWAYS one hole though where I self destruct and completely bottle it. It tends to be an 8 on a par 4, sometimes worse ... I shot a 12 on a par 4 a couple of months ago.

This may be a daft question but how do I get this stupid hole outta my game? Is it a mental thing?

I haven't read all three pages of responses, so if this has all been said before please take this is my +1 to those.

First of all, it is important to keep in mind that par 4 holes tend to be the hardest on the average golf course, that's why there are so many of the dang things, so if you are going to blow up there is a good chance it will be one of those.

With that out of the way, it is VERY important for you to pause at the end of one of those horrid experiences and go over in your own mind what exactly caused the problem for you.  It may be more than one thing of course, if so list them all...  The first step to fixing problems is to identify them.

One of the biggest mistakes all golfers sometimes make is to get into trouble, maybe slicing the ball into the woods, and then try a "hero shot" to make up for it and catch back up.  This is often a mistake for pros (watch just about any Sunday...) and almost always a big mistake for the average golfer or high handicapper.  You got into trouble because you made a bad shot.  The chances of getting out of that trouble unscathed by making a great shot from a bad place are very very small.  You've already made a mistake to be in trouble, suck it up and get back into the fairway so you have a decent chance on the following shot.  Your goal when you find yourself in trouble is not to be in the same or worse trouble on the next shot!

I have very similar advice for long shots that require a carry over water out toward the end, i.e. the hole with a creek in front of the green.  Only you can determine how far out you can reasonably expect to get the ball across and onto the green, but unless you feel the odds are high I would suggest laying up short of the water.  (This could apply to nasty bunkers too if you don't like being in them.)  If it is a par 4 and you lay your second shot up short of the water you have a decent chance of pitching up fairly close to the pin and having a putt for par, but when you're trying to break 100 bogies are great and you have two putts for that.  If you knock it in the creek the penalty will have you pitching from about the same place for your 4th shot instead of your 3rd.  If you do make it across, the farther out you are the greater the chance that you will have a really long lag putt, or may even miss the green and be pitching anyway.  Laying up isn't real manly maybe, but a lot of times it can be real smart.

For every shot you have, ask yourself what is the worst case scenario and how likely that scenario is to play out.  The trick to lower scores is staying out of trouble when possible.

Beyond that, are you having trouble getting out of sand traps, practice those shots.  Taking too many putts, practice putting.  Hitting poor chips and pitches?  Yep you guessed it, practice.  If you can afford it, take some lessons, particularly on those areas that are giving you particular trouble.

Hope this helps a little.

[jsp9999]

There seem to be 2 faction; one who thinks they can get rid of one or two flaws

I am sometimes guilty of giving up on a hole when it goes bad.  I'll do a wretched job of chipping and putting that adds an unnecessary stroke or two to the score for that hole.  It takes discipline to settle down and work hard to just minimize the damage.

This is one of big difference when I was shooting over 100 to 90's.  In my play group, people usually do ESC after double par and this rule encouraged me give up a hole if it started going bad.  Once I got rid of this rule in my mind, I focused more and tried to grind out and ended up scoring lower.

[dbrock504]

I haven't read all three pages of responses, so if this has all been said before please take this is my +1 to those.

First of all, it is important to keep in mind that par 4 holes tend to be the hardest on the average golf course, that's why there are so many of the dang things, so if you are going to blow up there is a good chance it will be one of those.

With that out of the way, it is VERY important for you to pause at the end of one of those horrid experiences and go over in your own mind what exactly caused the problem for you.  It may be more than one thing of course, if so list them all...  The first step to fixing problems is to identify them.

One of the biggest mistakes all golfers sometimes make is to get into trouble, maybe slicing the ball into the woods, and then try a "hero shot" to make up for it and catch back up.  This is often a mistake for pros (watch just about any Sunday...) and almost always a big mistake for the average golfer or high handicapper.  You got into trouble because you made a bad shot.  The chances of getting out of that trouble unscathed by making a great shot from a bad place are very very small.  You've already made a mistake to be in trouble, suck it up and get back into the fairway so you have a decent chance on the following shot.  Your goal when you find yourself in trouble is not to be in the same or worse trouble on the next shot!

I have very similar advice for long shots that require a carry over water out toward the end, i.e. the hole with a creek in front of the green.  Only you can determine how far out you can reasonably expect to get the ball across and onto the green, but unless you feel the odds are high I would suggest laying up short of the water.  (This could apply to nasty bunkers too if you don't like being in them.)  If it is a par 4 and you lay your second shot up short of the water you have a decent chance of pitching up fairly close to the pin and having a putt for par, but when you're trying to break 100 bogies are great and you have two putts for that.  If you knock it in the creek the penalty will have you pitching from about the same place for your 4th shot instead of your 3rd.  If you do make it across, the farther out you are the greater the chance that you will have a really long lag putt, or may even miss the green and be pitching anyway.  Laying up isn't real manly maybe, but a lot of times it can be real smart.

For every shot you have, ask yourself what is the worst case scenario and how likely that scenario is to play out.  The trick to lower scores is staying out of trouble when possible.

Beyond that, are you having trouble getting out of sand traps, practice those shots.  Taking too many putts, practice putting.  Hitting poor chips and pitches?  Yep you guessed it, practice.  If you can afford it, take some lessons, particularly on those areas that are giving you particular trouble.

Hope this helps a little.

I really do like this advice. I find it helped me a lot as well. I would always try to recover by trying a hero shot, just as said. I literally went from playing in the 110's to low 100's just by playing smarter .

I also agree that after a blow up hole, take a minute and asses WHY it happened. However, to elaborate on his point here. I find it a fine line between assessing what happened, and letting it ruin your day. I have a friend who just gets enraged after a blow up hole. It literally ruins his 9 because his attitude changes. Let it go. Move on. Figure out what happened and why and tell your self "it's not going to happen again" and don't. Focus on your next shot only.

That's what I love about this sport. It doesn't care how athletic you are or your age. It's just you, the ball, and a pretty fairway. Doesn't get much better than that!

[NJpatbee]

We all have different weaknesses, but for me if I can get off every tee (light rough is OK) I have a reasonable chance to break 90.  Most of my penalty shots or lost shots chipping back onto the fairway are for me, a result of a wayward drive.   I may hit an errant approach shot into a pond, but it normally does not cause a quadruple bogey.  But driver OB, hitting three on the tee for a par 4, I will hopefully get the ball in the hole in 5 shots, and there is a triple bogey 7 at least.

The old adage "drive for show, putt for dough" is very true for good drivers who typically are referring to crushing the ball 300 yards as opposed to 260 (both in the fairway).  For me the difference is between 225 in the fairway and a lost ball in the deep woods, or a ball behind a tree, or wet, or some other calamity.  Also, if I play a hole well I usually have a par putt and if I miss, I settle for bogey - a 1 stroke punishment as opposed to the 2-4 strokes a bad drive can result in.

[sacm3bill]

I have played rounds with no driver, and I've played rounds with no woods at all. I've found no significant difference in scoring. Turns out, it's just as hard to hit GIR with 5i-5i as it is to hit driver-8i. I've shot par on par 5s teeing off with irons, and I've also shot double and triple bogeys. Not a panacea.

Driver-8i is so much easier to hit GIR for me. Without driver, I can only hit occasional GIR on some par 3s. The odds that I can hit two really good 5i (even with my "short" 175 carry) in a row are really low. I can barely hit my 3i to 6i as it is.

Both bolded statements may be true, but if the goal is to decrease score and not just increase GIR, then I can still see how 5i-5i might be better. The reason being, high handicappers like myself aren't generally hitting a lot of greens with 8i anyway.  Whether Driver-8i or 5i-5i, if we hit two decent shots we're generally going to be somewhere within 30 yards of the green. From there it's most likely we'll get down in 3 (whether just off the green or 30 yards away), for a most likely score of bogie. With two 5is that aren't hit well, we'll still prob be close to 30 yards from the green in 2 shots - but with one driver shot not hit well, we're more likely to get into the kind of trouble that takes us 3 shots to get close to the green.

[sopel10]

As most said it before, staying out of trouble is the best way to get into 80's.

When I'm on par 5, and I'm forced to layup, I don't think what the most comfortable distance is for my third shot, I think, what is the safest layup shot to a somewhat comfortable 3rd.  If I have water on the left of the fairway, 130 yard from the green, I will layup to the right of the water, but not past 130 yards.  What if I pull/hook by layup?  I will run my percentages of risk/reward and decide what the easier course of action is.

And yes, I don't remember last time I tried a real hero shot.  Well, for me a hero shot was a 3 wood from the rough (ball sitting up), on a relatively easy par 5, with a branch 8 feet in the air about 4 feet in front of me.  That was my hero shot last time I played.  Risk/reward was worth it. 3 wood starts low so very very low chance of hitting that branch.

Now, being in the woods and try to advance the ball forward with every single tree in the way....not smart.  Try to eliminate shots like that, play the percentages.

[billchao]

Both bolded statements may be true, but if the goal is to decrease score and not just increase GIR, then I can still see how 5i-5i might be better. The reason being, high handicappers like myself aren't generally hitting a lot of greens with 8i anyway.  Whether Driver-8i or 5i-5i, if we hit two decent shots we're generally going to be somewhere within 30 yards of the green.

I have to disagree. Given two decent shots, 5i-5i or driver-8i, I guarantee you will score better driver-8i. That 8i will get you both closer to and on the green more often than the 5i. [quote name="sacm3bill" url="/t/74484/high-handicapper-blow-up-holes/30#post_990788"] With two 5is that aren't hit well, we'll still prob be close to 30 yards from the green in 2 shots - but with one driver shot not hit well, we're more likely to get into the kind of trouble that takes us 3 shots to get close to the green. [/quote]I have to disagree with this, too. I can't imagine that two poorly hit 5i will get you anywhere near the vicinity of two decent 5i. More likely, a mishit 5i off the tee will leave no chance at the green at all, leaving another layup situation which brings more opportunities to mishit clubs. I can't possibly be the only person who's ever mishit a layup (or the subsequent approach). I know I'm not, because I've seen plenty of people lay up short of hazards and flub their approaches right into them. If you can flub a shot into a hazard, you can flub one without a hazard. The only time I really bag the driver is when the risk is too high: OB or any risk of stroke and distance, if I haven't been able to control it all day, or if the hole forces me to lay up my second shot by design (thereby negating any advantage I would have gained from the extra distance anyway).

[Hardballs]

There are 2 holes on a course I play that usually let me down, the first is only par 4 @ 270!!, but there's a ditch at 200 and it's a very narrow fairway with ob both sides and a bunker protected green! Yesterday, for the first time, I left the driver in the bag and teed off with an 8i, then pitched on with an 8i and putted birdie! (My friend drove the green and eagle putted!.. The bas#€$%d) The hole after is a par 5, I hit driver and 2 8irons then 2 putted par! I used to hit driver, wood, wedge, but My 8 iron is my most consistent club at 135yrds, so course management and playing to your strengths will help prevent blow ups, and if it's a regular blow up hole, allow yaself to go for a bogey, ya may just one putt for par!

[Vinsk]

There is no recovery from a shank. You're done. I'll Boom a nice drawing drive 325yd on on 385yd par 4. Shank the 60yd shot. Sure....could've chipped with a7-8i...but I didn't EXPECT the shank. Besides, bunker in front ruled that out. Going to the fairway of the adjacent fairway to play my next shot. Mass of trees blocking me to the green. Of course it was easy for the ball to sail through the trees from the shank. But to try and punch it through....it'll never happen. So, over the trees I go. Just shanked my 56* to get me here and now I gotta hit that again or pull out the 60*. I'm about 40yds from the green with tree mass about 15yds in front of me. Well...I had the 56* in my hands....but brought the 60* and my 5i in case I consider a punch. Looking down the club I see the wonderful pattern of golfball dimples glistening on the hosel. Put the 56* down and could swear I heard it chuckle. I grab the 60* but have that little warm fuzzy feeling the shanks virus gives us. I put the 60* down almost as if it was on fire. So there's a small gap. Yeah, I mean if I hit the punch shot exactly within about a 14" space. Screw it, hit and hope. 5i punch...felt so sweet....great contact. "Knock!" Yes..that wonderful sound of good solid wood hitting surelyn. My ball came back at me almost causing me to have to duck. Basically same shot again now but I'm farther back from the trees. I take a deep breath and gather confidence and say to myself....this is ridiculous...I'm an 8 hcp and I'm hitting this f****** sand wedge over these trees. I've hit this shot 1000's if times! So I shank the 56*. Of course since it's a violent shank, it easily makes it through the tree mass without a scratch. I swear I saw the trees actually lean apart the let the ball through. So now the ball has wizzed right past the green, way behind it. Wedges are outta the question. Not gonna hold up the group any longer so just use my 5i again for a nice little punch. On, three putt. Nice snowman. This was hole 16. I was only 4 over. 17? Par 3 134yds. That's a wedge. I'm done.

[sacm3bill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Both bolded statements may be true, but if the goal is to decrease score and not just increase GIR, then I can still see how 5i-5i might be better. The reason being, high handicappers like myself aren't generally hitting a lot of greens with 8i anyway.  Whether Driver-8i or 5i-5i, if we hit two decent shots we're generally going to be somewhere within 30 yards of the green.

I have to disagree. Given two decent shots, 5i-5i or driver-8i, I guarantee you will score better driver-8i. That 8i will get you both closer to and on the green more often than the 5i.

Yes, obviously an 8i from 8i distance will get you closer to and/or on the green vs a 5i from 5i distance.  But the tee shot is part of this equation too.  And the point is that you're a bit more likely to get to 5i distance with a 5i (*and* have a shot at the green *and* not be OB or otherwise in trouble) than you are likely to similarly get to 8i distance with a driver.  I'm just saying you need to consider the tradeoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

With two 5is that aren't hit well, we'll still prob be close to 30 yards from the green in 2 shots - but with one driver shot not hit well, we're more likely to get into the kind of trouble that takes us 3 shots to get close to the green.

I have to disagree with this, too. I can't imagine that two poorly hit 5i will get you anywhere near the vicinity of two decent 5i.

Again, that's obvious. The point is that 2 poorly hit 5i will likely leave you in better shape than an equally poorly hit driver followed by an equally poorly hit anything.