• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
sacm3bill

Balls get stuck in trees, so tournament director wants them cut down.

14 posts in this topic

If the skinny cypress trees at Ancil Hofman just off the eighth fairway and right of the ninth green aren’t removed before next year’s Memorial Amateur, tournament founder/director John Rochelle said he will mark them as “ground under repair.”

Derek Trofimczuk’s tee shot on No. 9 – his final hole Sunday – stuck in a cypress. Because it was 30 feet up, the ball couldn’t be identified and Trofimczuk was forced to declare it lost. The resulting triple bogey caused the 20-year-old from Cameron Park to miss the cut by one stroke.

In the final round Monday, Jonny Baxter’s drive on No. 8 lodged in the cypress and caused the UC Davis senior to incur a one-stroke penalty for an unplayable lie. Baxter, who tied for third, was in second place at the time.

“For guys to be penalized like that, I can’t see the equity,” Rochelle said. “If the trees were 20 yards right or left, that’s a different ballgame.”

If the trees survive, Rochelle said he would mark them so no penalties would be assessed.

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/05/27/6436797/making-the-rounds-memorial-amateur.html

See pic below. I believe they're talking about the trees in the circled area. #8 is the right-to-left par 4 above the trees in question, #9 is the left-to-right par 3 below them. I've played this course and know these holes well, but all you need is the picture to know that if you're in the trees it means you've hit a bad shot.

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

Yes.

But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Does a tournament director have the authority to mark a group of trees GIR?

Yes.

But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

Yep, and wanting them cut down even more so.  If you don't like trees, play a links course.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. But marking trees as GIR seems pretty stupid. Don't hit them in the trees.

If trees were GIR my stats would be awesome. Putting stats may take a dive, though. ;-)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

Unrelated ... I think Italian Cypress trees are kind of ugly, so I say hack away!  Put up something else in their place.

Hey, @bplewis24 , don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

Oh, and just to be silly, I think instead of drawing a white circle around the trees to mark them, he should "flock" them like they do at the Christmas Tree farms when you want your tree to look "snowy." :beer:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

Because you don't know with certainty until you've seen it. It may be under a leaf or under a golf cart.

That rule has to cover every situation.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

Realistically, though how often do your know your ball is in the tree? Usually the sight lines are obscured enough that all you can do is hazard a best guess. Just because you see a ball near the same branches that your shot went towards doesn't mean that ball couldn't belong to a competitor who played the hole before you. I guess there is the possibility that your see your ball rattle around some upper branches before dropping and settling into a lower rung, but that is such a rare scenario, that I can't imagine changing a rule over it.

It's funny that you should bring that up, though because I had a similar scenario come up in a round last weekend. I flared my drive right into a tree about 100 yards down the right side of the tee box. After a few minutes of searching in every possible direction, I "knew" it must have settled in the branches somewhere and went back to re-tee 3. It was only a few minutes later that I drove down the left side of the fairway to approach my pulled 2nd drive, when I saw my first ball nestled down in the rough. Apparently, unseen by everyone, my first drive had hit a branch and ricocheted across the fairway about 60 yards away. I guess the moral of the story is, you never know unless you know!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Because you don't know with certainty until you've seen it. It may be under a leaf or under a golf cart.

That rule has to cover every situation.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Realistically, though how often do your know your ball is in the tree? Usually the sight lines are obscured enough that all you can do is hazard a best guess. Just because you see a ball near the same branches that your shot went towards doesn't mean that ball couldn't belong to a competitor who played the hole before you. I guess there is the possibility that your see your ball rattle around some upper branches before dropping and settling into a lower rung, but that is such a rare scenario, that I can't imagine changing a rule over it.

It's funny that you should bring that up, though because I had a similar scenario come up in a round last weekend. I flared my drive right into a tree about 100 yards down the right side of the tee box. After a few minutes of searching in every possible direction, I "knew" it must have settled in the branches somewhere and went back to re-tee 3. It was only a few minutes later that I drove down the left side of the fairway to approach my pulled 2nd drive, when I saw my first ball nestled down in the rough. Apparently, unseen by everyone, my first drive had hit a branch and ricocheted across the fairway about 60 yards away. I guess the moral of the story is, you never know unless you know!

Yeah, I guess I was just going by the tournament director's claim that implied they clearly knew that kids ball was in the tree.  But when there aren't several sets of eyes watching in a tournament, I agree, there is no way to know if your ball didn't come out, or if it came out in a direction other than where you were all looking.  Except the occasions where its a palm tree that hasn't been groomed well, and you watch it go into one of the pockets between the trunk and a dead frond. I guess that's just your bad luck.

I still say, though, that cypress trees aren't terribly attractive and they should be replaced. ;)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Keep your ball in the fairway.  How is this any different then having a water hazard along the fairway?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly this has been covered in rules threads somewhere, but why does the ball have to be identified if they know its in the tree?

Unrelated ... I think Italian Cypress trees are kind of ugly, so I say hack away!  Put up something else in their place.

Hey, @bplewis24 ... you play AH, don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

Oh, and just to be silly, I think instead of drawing a white circle around the trees to mark them, he should "flock" them like they do at the Christmas Tree farms when you want your tree to look "snowy."

Just because you see a ball in the tree, that doesn't mean that it's yours.  And just because you see your ball enter a tree, doesn't mean that it didn't come back out.  I've experienced both situations, the latter one many times.  I've seem many balls hit into a tree where we didn't see it come out, even though it did come out.  I've also seen a ball hit into a spruce tree and stay in, while at the same time it knocked out a different ball.

If the player can't identify a ball as his, then it's lost.

As to the decision by the tournament director, he sounds like a real genius.  Even if he does as he has threatened, the player must still have virtual certainty that his ball is in the tree or the end result is the same as it is now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep your ball in the fairway.  How is this any different then having a water hazard along the fairway?

It's not ... good point.  All water hazards near fairways should be cut down as well!!!!  Golf should be played on an infinitely long and wide bocce ball court!! :beer:

Just because you see a ball in the tree, that doesn't mean that it's yours.  And just because you see your ball enter a tree, doesn't mean that it didn't come back out.  I've experienced both situations, the latter one many times.  I've seem many balls hit into a tree where we didn't see it come out, even though it did come out.  I've also seen a ball hit into a spruce tree and stay in, while at the same time it knocked out a different ball.

If the player can't identify a ball as his, then it's lost.

As to the decision by the tournament director, he sounds like a real genius.  Even if he does as he has threatened, the player must still have virtual certainty that his ball is in the tree or the end result is the same as it is now.

Yeah, makes sense.  It's just the most frustrating thing ever.  I'm already irritated that I hit such a horrible shot, and now you're just going to swallow my ball?  Stupid flippin tree!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!  The 8th hole is one of my favorite holes!  Specifically because of that tree there!  Sam, I believe you circled the wrong tree(s).  The one you circled is to the left of the 8th (top) fairway, and to the left of the 9th (bottom) fairway.  The big tree that I'm thinking of that typically causes problems for people on the 8th hole is the very large tree across the fairway, above and to the right of the tree you circled.

Hey, @bplewis24 ... you play AH, don't you??  Ever have a problem with these trees??

I've played this hole (8th) many, many times.  One of the reasons it's my favorite is because I hit the ball high (usually) even with my driver.  I've generally been able to hit it over the tree on the right (above the fairway) even if I push it right.  From the tips I'm sure it would be much more difficult.  However, some days if I'm worried about hitting it into the tree, I'll take less than driver and leave it short of the tree.

Honestly, I don't find it to be that difficult of a hole.  It's not that far, and unless you get stuck directly behind the tree (or apparently in it), you can still reach the green.  And bailing out to the left presents no real danger at all except a small bunker (in the circle that Sam drew).  And if you get it over the tree, it's so wide open that even being in the rough presents an opportunity for birdie.

Lastly, the guy who got stuck in a tree on the 9th hole must have hit a horrendous shot, worthy of a bogey for sure.  The tree circled in the above picture would NOT be in play for a tee shot on that par 3, so it must be the tree on the right side of the green (in fact the article states that it was "and right of the ninth green").  You can see it pictured at the very bottom of the frame, below the greenside bunker.  That has to be at least 20 yards away from the green on what is typically about a 200 yard par 3 (for me it's more like 180 from the blues).  Not saying triple was warranted, but I've never seen anybody come close to hitting that tree before.  He hit a horrible shot.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!  The 8th hole is one of my favorite holes!  Specifically because of that tree there!  Sam, I believe you circled the wrong tree(s).  The one you circled is to the left of the 8th (top) fairway, and to the left of the 9th (bottom) fairway.  The big tree that I'm thinking of that typically causes problems for people on the 8th hole is the very large tree across the fairway, above and to the right of the tree you circled.

Hey Brandon,

Hmm, well I was thinking the author was talking about a single set of trees that were in play on both holes, which would therefore mean something between the 2 holes - but you could be right in your interpretation of 2 different sets of trees. Although the description "skinny cypress" tree doesn't match the one on the right of the 8th fairway you're talking about.

(It's Bill, not Sam btw - but no worries.)

Great point by Rick above - marking trees GUR doesn't remove the responsibility of still having to identify your ball. They tourney director is prob just frustrated about the incidents and lashing out, and either isn't thinking clearly or isn't up on the rules.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(It's Bill, not Sam btw - but no worries.)

Apologies!  I still read your user handle as "sam" almost every time I see it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • New GolfNow layout is Awful
      Sounds like we just have a different barometer for what "bad" is. This particular case isn't about "adapting" to the new site, the controls are largely the same. The problem is they blew everything up so people can see it on their phones which dilutes the quantity of information you get get to see on your PC. Also they removed useful features like the regions to again make more space for mobile users.
    • My ex-home courses closing, changing - proofs that golf is in decline
      Yes, it is extremely popular among Asians of every kind here because it's a rich man's sport in Asia. Many Asians (Korean, Japanese, and large growing Chinese/Taiwanese and many other Southeast Asians) come here and find that Golf is within reach of their "class" so they sign up their kids to play. I'd say that my wife's friend is in that category, and she also convinced us to play as well. So, here I am.
    • Putting Yips
      I completely changed my own putting stroke this year.... twice. Last year I had a terrible case of the yips and was two and three putting a lot of greens - some of the two putts were on putts that were 3-4 footers resulting from chip ons. I averaged 37.8 putts per round. My back hurts when I bend over practicing putting for any length of time. I tried to fix it, but gave up after a while, decided that I needed to hit more GIRs and get closer to the pin. My putting would always be mediocre. So at Xmas I bought a long putter .... cheap $60... no one wants them anymore. I tried side-saddle and practiced in my living room. I took it to the green yesterday and I didn't like it. I changed to the "shoulder-connected method" except with my right arm fully extended and right index finger along the shaft of the putter. I hold the putter gripped over the top like they would when anchoring it to the chest. Now I just rock my shoulders and arm as a unit. Having the right arm fully extended takes my right wrist completely out of the equation and that is what was causing my putting problem. Now, neither my forearm nor the putter head is touching my body. I am making a legal stroke at the ball.  After about 15 minutes work, I was lag putting to within gimme range of the holes on the practice green. When I'd miss the mark, the four footer would still drop. Now this is with a completely new stroke, and not an anchored stroke either. I'm standing fairly upright too so it's easy on my back and I can practice for about 30 minutes every time I go to the range without dreading it. While this might not cure my scoring woes this year, if I look at last years Game Golf analysis, I could save about 3 strokes a round by going from 37.8 putts per round to 34.8. 
    • New GolfNow layout is Awful
      Facebook updates all the time for performance reasons. Read their release notes.  But never judge good usability by Facebook as they are one of the absolute worst sites out there.   Honestly?  There isn't.  Some people are still stuck in old web menus but usability has only risen in the last decade.  Are there bad sites?  Sure.  But most sites are far and away better they anytime in the past.  You just have to adapt to them.  This isn't a knock on you its how society works.  I am a user experience designer and study this a lot.   Once a person gets used to changes, going back to the old version would be impossible     
    • "5 Minutes Daily" Practice Challenge (February 2016)
      Got to the range to drop off clubs for my daughters high school coed golf team tryouts. I sure hope she can get on the team. She's about a 15HC from the men's tees, it's going to be tough. Cross fingers and Practiced my downswing transition on grass and hit much better shots on the grass range after the first few shots. I hit too thin on the course, but was able to get some serious height on the grass range. Going to practice some more on the grass range and use golf club delivery to my daughter as an excuse to spend the extra money. Also, I feel like I can really go after the ball on grass because a fat shot is not as penal on the body as on a mat.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. TessaEdin
      TessaEdin
      (24 years old)
  • Blog Entries