Hank Haney: "I saw Tiger's drive diminish as early as 2006"

[Mr. Desmond]

I'm sure it's through third party sources. But the fact his drive was less in 2007 and 2008 makes no sense given the fact he was in the final pairing of the last round in the '07 Masters, '07 USOpen, '07 PGA and '08 US Open and won the '07 PGA, '08 US Open and finished runner up to Immelman at the '08 Masters. Had to be working pretty hard then, especially to win on one leg at Torrey Pines.

Like I said, I think there may some merit to Tiger's lack of drive from 2010-2012 when he was going through a ton of personal life problems, a lot of injury issues and what not, but I think Tiger hit the re-fresh button to start 2013. Lot of people have said he worked extremely hard last year and it paid off...it was like a new Tiger...maybe not so much in the Majors, but he put himself in position to win 3 of them.

If there's one mistake I think Tiger made it was getting rid of Stevie. I don't know what the breakup reason was...if it was personal or what....but Williams and Tiger were a great match, particularly in the Majors, and as good as LaCava is, I don't think he has the same effect as Stevie did on Tiger. Look how Williams has helped Adam Scott.

Well, from what I have heard about Hank and see on his TV shows, he demands a lot of work from his students. He doesn't like to work with people who don't work up to his expectations.

It may be that Hank has an unrealistic ideal of dedication to practice. Tiger may have been putting in loads of work in 2006-08, it just wasn't the same as previously, and to HH, that meant Tiger was sloughing off....

[iacas]

I said after 2006, and in your quest to defend him, I did not insinuate that he has fallen off the map, simple stated that his domination seems to wained a little bit after 2006.

The numbers were from after 2006. 2006-2008. In 2008 he won 4 of 6 and was still second on the money list despite playing in six events .

There's no quest to defend - I'm simply stating facts. Where's the "waning domination"? Winning > 50% of PGA Tour events - or 75% in 2008 - is domination.

domination I was speaking about was when he was blowing away the field by strokes, come backs, clutch putts and shots.

He was also a lot more likely to finish T40 back then. He became more consistent during the Haney years (whether that has much to do with Haney or not, none of us know). He consistently finished higher under Haney. His bad days weren't as bad, and his good days were more even. Plus, since you're measuring him against others, they got fitter and better very quickly as well - guys began working out, etc. from 1997 to 2006. Equipment improved dramatically. Etc.

Tiger knows. Probably a LOT more than Hank…. Maybe if tiger was a bit more generous or more open in speaking to the press, some of the assumptions would be clearer, but he chooses his own persona.

IMO Tiger's a lot more open than people give him credit for.

Hank was still his coach in 2006, still speaking with him, still meeting with him. I trust Hank may have saw things that allowed him to make his assertion. But you think otherwise?

I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying Hank has shown that he likes to comment on Tiger Woods, and I doubt the veracity of all of his claims. Tiger could have started curtailing how much time he spent with Hank in 2006, but done more to practice on his own. I know of a few people who worked with or talked with him when Hank wasn't around in that time frame, for example.

Tiger knows whether his drive started diminishing then, now, or ever. Only he can really say. Hank's opinion is suspect.

That much I am saying.

[ChrisP]

Well, from what I have heard about Hank and see on his TV shows, he demands a lot of work from his students. He doesn't like to work with people who don't work up to his expectations.

It may be that Hank has an unrealistic ideal of dedication to practice. Tiger may have been putting in loads of work in 2006-08, it just wasn't the same as previously, and to HH, that meant Tiger was sloughing off....

Could be. I don't know Hank or what his demands are. It sure didn't show in Tiger's game a dropoff in work. He was just as good from '06-08 as he was before. The major dropoff from Tiger came when his marriage fell apart and the injury problems became more consistent, but last year he looked like he was back in his old form.

[RonTheSavage]

Hank Haney has DVDs to sell. Nothing to see here :tumble:

[ChrisP]

I will say I am surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open. I really thought he was going to enter in it even up until yesterday (but now I believe it's too late). I think if he's truly serious about contending at Liverpool, he needs more competitive rounds under his belt. I know he doesn't play the week before a major, but this is one of those exceptions that I think would benefit him. That's one thing that Haney said that I tend to side with him on.

[Gunther]

I will say I am surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open. I really thought he was going to enter in it even up until yesterday (but now I believe it's too late). I think if he's truly serious about contending at Liverpool, he needs more competitive rounds under his belt. I know he doesn't play the week before a major, but this is one of those exceptions that I think would benefit him. That's one thing that Haney said that I tend to side with him on.

I agree in theory, however, tough to judge how someone with 14 majors (albeit 0 in past 6 yrs) prepares for said majors. People have been after him for the past few years about playing more rounds throughout the season. I think he typically gets it right, notwithstanding the fact that circumstances currently are a bit off the norm for him.

[newtogolf]

I will say I am surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open. I really thought he was going to enter in it even up until yesterday (but now I believe it's too late). I think if he's truly serious about contending at Liverpool, he needs more competitive rounds under his belt. I know he doesn't play the week before a major, but this is one of those exceptions that I think would benefit him. That's one thing that Haney said that I tend to side with him on.

I think he's looking to lay low and just practice rather than dealing with all the media attention that comes with him playing in a tournament.  We know he's not at 100% so why risk missing a cut again so close to the Open.

[iacas]

I will say I am surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open.

Why?

a) Tiger almost never plays the week before a major.

b) He said he was playing at Congressional and then the British Open.

[ChrisP]

Why?

a) Tiger almost never plays the week before a major.

b) He said he was playing at Congressional and then the British Open.

a) In my post, I specifcally said if there's ever an exception, this would be it. He needs the practice.

b) I know he said that, but McIlroy also said last year he wasn't playing a week before the Masters and last minute decided to play the Texas Open because he felt he needed the work. Everyone makes last minute changes.

He may shock us all and win the British and I'll eat my crow, but my personal opinion is he's not going into the British with a lot of confidence, and if you ever listen to Tiger's interviews, he stresses the importance of confidence going into majors and how important it is to be going in with good form.

[newtogolf]

a) In my post, I specifcally said if there's ever an exception, this would be it. He needs the practice.

b) I know he said that, but McIlroy also said last year he wasn't playing a week before the Masters and last minute decided to play the Texas Open because he felt he needed the work. Everyone makes last minute changes.

He may shock us all and win the British and I'll eat my crow, but my personal opinion is he's not going into the British with a lot of confidence, and if you ever listen to Tiger's interviews, he stresses the importance of confidence going into majors and how important it is to be going in with good form.

Tiger is the only one who knows where his back and game are in terms of recovery.  I think if he has some good practice rounds without discomfort that will boost his confidence and he will have the added benefit on not dealing with international flights and lodging.

[iacas]

a) In my post, I specifcally said if there's ever an exception, this would be it. He needs the practice.

b) I know he said that, but McIlroy also said last year he wasn't playing a week before the Masters and last minute decided to play the Texas Open because he felt he needed the work. Everyone makes last minute changes.

He may shock us all and win the British and I'll eat my crow, but my personal opinion is he's not going into the British with a lot of confidence, and if you ever listen to Tiger's interviews, he stresses the importance of confidence going into majors and how important it is to be going in with good form.

Here's the deal. You said you were " surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open."

You did not say that it was your opinion that he should play the Scottish Open.

Do you see now why I responded the way I did? That he didn't play should NOT have been a surprise at all.

[ChrisP]

Tiger is the only one who knows where his back and game are in terms of recovery.  I think if he has some good practice rounds without discomfort that will boost his confidence and he will have the added benefit on not dealing with international flights and lodging.

Practice rounds are good and all, but it's not competitive golf. Tiger Woods himself has said that a number of times...the only way to really get back in the swing of things is to play tournaments. If he doesn't want to push his back a lot, I understand that, and maybe that's what it all boils down to. That's my guess.

Here's the deal. You said you were "surprised Tiger's not playing in the Scottish Open."

You did not say that it was your opinion that he should play the Scottish Open.

Do you see now why I responded the way I did? That he didn't play should NOT have been a surprise at all.

Fair enough. Based on what a lot were saying, Tiger was considering playing the week before and I thought he would, and I thought he should. I think many of us want to see Tiger in contention at Hoylake. The chances for him contending would be higher if he got some competitive rounds in. But like I said above, if it's a health issue, it's totally understandable.

[turtleback]

The topic of the thread was " Hank Haneys assertion that he saw Tigers drive deminishing as early as 2006" . Just saying.

Reading the quotation of Hank I believe it to be very plausible....2006 was, the end of his domination. Yes he continued to win some touneys and obviously played well in the majors. But to Haneys point he very well may have sensed a disinterest, a change of practice, maybe even body language, demeanor.

None of us know' but Hank.

OK, so Tiger has  3-year period that is better than any 3-year period any golfer (other than him) has had in the last 50 (or more) years and you say it is the end of his domination.  Which I guess means that he is the ONLY guy who EVER dominated, if your standards for domination are so high that only his own prior year can meet it and no other golfer can or has.

We can all speculate whether he's telling the truth or whether he's full of it, but none of us really know. Haney may know some just by talking to people in the know. Who knows.

Although I think Tiger's workload was still strong through 2008 and maybe '09 (hell he was in the final round pairings of the Masters, USO and PGA in '07 and Masters and USO in '08), It wouldn't surprise me if there's some truth to Haney's words around the time when Tiger was going through his rough patch with the marriage and divorce. From probably around early 2010 through 2012, Tiger was having a lot of personal life issues, injury problems....he fired his caddie. Just a lot of distractions that probably took him away from the game. But I think he started fresh last year. You got the sense Tiger "re-charged" and had a really solid year, won 5 times and gave himself a really great chance in 3 of the majors. Had a little funk the last 6 months with the back problems, but I think if he's fully healthy, he'll pick up the workload that he had last year.

Haney is saying what he needs t say to keep in the limelight.  Your 2010-2012 comments may be right on, but they do nothing to resurrect Haney's credibility for his 2006-2008 comments.

I said after 2006, and in your quest to defend him, I did not insinuate that he has fallen off the map, simple stated that his domination seems to wained a little bit after 2006. I am well aware of his record. domination I was speaking about was when he was blowing away the field by strokes, come backs, clutch putts and shots. He's gifted, he's great, but after 2006 he changed a little bit and. After 2009 another change occured. ( again I am well aware of his record)

His domination waned a bit?  Really?  Even in Tiger's career there are not many 3-year periods than can compete with 2006-2008, and for other players there are NONE!

[Mulligan Jeff]

Given Tiger's history of gearing up toward a major he works out early morning then goes to practice range with coach for most of day. And he doesn't share his Popsicles lol