Concealed Carry on The Course

[skydog]

All good, different strokes for different folks. Like someone else said, that's the beauty of different state laws and choosing to get to live where we want to live.

[Gunther]

Texas vs California is night and day when it comes to guns is all I was trying to say. Sheesh

Dang Ron, I was about to give u a skin and all of a sudden your post changed. I liked your earlier comment better than sheesh. ;)

[RonTheSavage]

All good, different strokes for different folks. Like someone else said, that's the beauty of different state laws and choosing to get to live where we want to live.

Yeah I had a buddy that moved to Austin and wants us to come visit. I think I'll stay out west.

[iacas]

Yep...it's a real utopia you got yourself out there...

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/tragedy-california-cops-shoot-13-year-old-boy-for-carrying-a-toy-gun/

Comments like this do not advance the discussion.

[RonTheSavage]

Dang Ron, I was about to give u a skin and all of a sudden your post changed. I liked your earlier comment better than sheesh. ;)

LOL I thought better of it

[vangator]

bshalcomb, if you were in my foursome, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I like the idea. There are lots of crazy, desperate people out there. And they know there is money on a golf course. Think about that. I knew a guy that actually carried a Mosberg semi-auto shotgun in his bag. Never played with him though. Wouldn't have bothered me either. I grew up in a family where gun racks on the wall were considered art forms. In High School, we used to bring our shotguns to school on the first day of Deer Season and put them in the corner of the shop teacher's room. It was a national holiday. :)

[windlaker]

Take your cart, find the nearest marshal, head to the clubhouse?

A golf course is not the best place for a gun (slight sarcasm) ... slow play, too much testosterone, frustration, big clubs ... just doesn't add up to safety.

Of course, recognizing your right to do so, I remember reading an article where a 30 year vet of the police force, upon retiring, said it was difficult enough for trained professionals to know how to handle a situation and when to fire a gun ... he shuddered at the thought of mentally untrained citizens carrying...

When in doubt, use humor... if that doesn't work, be close to your cart.

Most people can run as fast as a golf cart.

[amac]

OP, I'm all about conceal carry whenever and wherever its legal.  Personally, I don't perceive a golf course the type of place to "expect" life threatening trouble.  While your experience sounds threatening, I agree with the poster stating that if you require a firearm to handle a drunk, you need to reassess your self defense plans.  What happens if you reach for your weapon and the assailant knocks it out of your hand with his 5 iron?  You've given him another weapon.  Forgive my tirade here, but too many people purchase a handgun, get a permit to carry and think they are ready to defend themselves.  They never train, shoot maybe once or twice a year, and have never experienced firing under duress.  However, they feel prepared to take on the world because they have a gun!  Does buying a set of golf clubs, going to the range once or twice mean you should consider yourself a scratch golfer?  No, you're a high handicapper!

My suggestion to you is take self defense classes.  Learn how to disarm an assailant with your hands.  Secondly, if you haven't already, you should take CCW classes where simunitions are used.  These training classes teach you how to handle threats like the drunk at a golf course and will illustrate how quickly an overpowering drunk can take your weapon and use it against you.  I may be stating things you've already done, so I'll ask, what type of training do you have?

To answer your question, I don't carry on the golf course.  I don't EDC, but I do have my carry permit.  I have trained extensively on how to use my weapon in multiple situations and have spent several years training in personal self defense.  I support the right to bear arms.  I also support the right to revoke that right if you prove to be irresponsible with your firearm.  Taking a life is a serious deal.  It should be your last option.

amac

[Dave2512]

Most people can run as fast as a golf cart.

Depends on the cart but not many people I know can run that fast, especially drunk. A 36 volt cart averages around 12-15 mph, that's tuned down for public course use. A 48 volt cart can get into the 25 mph range. People can sprint that fast but not long unless they are very well conditioned, think Usain Bolt.

[Mr. Desmond]

Most people can run as fast as a golf cart.

Yes, but isn't it more sporting to run them down than shoot them?

Bumping them is better than a fatal wound.

And just think if you shoot them ... are you prepared to go to jail for using deadly force?

What if they did not use the club but only intended to scare you? And you shoot them? What if you've left a child without a Dad?

Is it deadly force against deadly force if you just pull a gun and shoot without warning? Must you warn them before shooting?

What does your state law say about standing your ground?

Too many questions....

[David in FL]

Yes, but isn't it more sporting to run them down than shoot them?

Bumping them is better than a fatal wound.

And just think if you shoot them ... are you prepared to go to jail for using deadly force?

What if they did not use the club but only intended to scare you? And you shoot them? What if you've left a child without a Dad?

Is it deadly force against deadly force if you just pull a gun and shoot without warning? Must you warn them before shooting?

What does your state law say about standing your ground?

Too many questions....

Mostly good questions (just a couple silly....), and anyone carrying must know the answer to them, or they're irresponsible.

[EZPZ]

OP, I'm all about conceal carry whenever and wherever its legal.  Personally, I don't perceive a golf course the type of place to "expect" life threatening trouble.  While your experience sounds threatening, I agree with the poster stating that if you require a firearm to handle a drunk, you need to reassess your self defense plans.  What happens if you reach for your weapon and the assailant knocks it out of your hand with his 5 iron?  You've given him another weapon.  Forgive my tirade here, but too many people purchase a handgun, get a permit to carry and think they are ready to defend themselves.  They never train, shoot maybe once or twice a year, and have never experienced firing under duress.  However, they feel prepared to take on the world because they have a gun!  Does buying a set of golf clubs, going to the range once or twice mean you should consider yourself a scratch golfer?  No, you're a high handicapper! My suggestion to you is take self defense classes.  Learn how to disarm an assailant with your hands.  Secondly, if you haven't already, you should take CCW classes where simunitions are used.  These training classes teach you how to handle threats like the drunk at a golf course and will illustrate how quickly an overpowering drunk can take your weapon and use it against you.  I may be stating things you've already done, so I'll ask, what type of training do you have? To answer your question, I don't carry on the golf course.  I don't EDC, but I do have my carry permit.  I have trained extensively on how to use my weapon in multiple situations and have spent several years training in personal self defense.  I support the right to bear arms.  I also support the right to revoke that right if you prove to be irresponsible with your firearm.  Taking a life is a serious deal.  It should be your last option.   amac

Well, when you get into "what if" land anything can happen. Yeah the gun could get knocked from my hand. If he's that close that 5 iron could just as easily be in my skull. I'll take my chances drawing down. Like i've stated several times before. This guy wasnt some staggering barely conscious drunk. He was moving quickly and with a purpose. I feel that if his friend had not stopped him and i tried to talk him down, myself or my father would have wound up in the hospital. If an irate, yelling, screaming, red faced drunk is closing distance on you quickly with a blunt force weapon, are you trying to tell me thats the time to try and holds hands while singing kumbayah? I'm all for de-escalation, but should i have to wait until i'm on the ground bleeding before i take action? To answer your other question, i do need to take some classes. I sometimes practice use of force scenarios with a couple other guys i know and some basic tactical shooting, but i'm no Travis Haley.

[dkolo]

Well, when you get into "what if" land anything can happen. Yeah the gun could get knocked from my hand. If he's that close that 5 iron could just as easily be in my skull. I'll take my chances drawing down. Like i've stated several times before. This guy wasnt some staggering barely conscious drunk. He was moving quickly and with a purpose. I feel that if his friend had not stopped him and i tried to talk him down, myself or my father would have wound up in the hospital. If an irate, yelling, screaming, red faced drunk is closing distance on you quickly with a blunt force weapon, are you trying to tell me thats the time to try and holds hands while singing kumbayah? I'm all for de-escalation, but should i have to wait until i'm on the ground bleeding before i take action? To answer your other question, i do need to take some classes. I sometimes practice use of force scenarios with a couple other guys i know and some basic tactical shooting, but i'm no Travis Haley.

All that is fair, but, turning it around a bit, I take some comfort in knowing that, around here, the drunk idiot coming at me will be waving a 5 iron and not a handgun, because it's a lot harder to get them here and you can't just carry them around. I didn't grow up in a culture that accepts firearms, so it's admittedly foreign to me. My instinct is to tell you to carry a Tazer or mace or something if you're really worried about getting into it on a golf course. I'm not a social scientist, but I have enough background in psychology and priming effects that I put stock in the analogy of applying the axiom that "If your only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." I wouldn't advocate a change in policy away from what is permitted in your area, but I would certainly advocate against making the rules here more permissible. Trying to relate it back to the original conceit of the thread, I'd hope that people would leave whatever weapons they have at home when they go golfing.

[amac]

Well, when you get into "what if" land anything can happen. Yeah the gun could get knocked from my hand. If he's that close that 5 iron could just as easily be in my skull. I'll take my chances drawing down. Like i've stated several times before. This guy wasnt some staggering barely conscious drunk. He was moving quickly and with a purpose. I feel that if his friend had not stopped him and i tried to talk him down, myself or my father would have wound up in the hospital. If an irate, yelling, screaming, red faced drunk is closing distance on you quickly with a blunt force weapon, are you trying to tell me thats the time to try and holds hands while singing kumbayah? I'm all for de-escalation, but should i have to wait until i'm on the ground bleeding before i take action? To answer your other question, i do need to take some classes. I sometimes practice use of force scenarios with a couple other guys i know and some basic tactical shooting, but i'm no Travis Haley.

Don't misinterpret my message.  I'm all for force on force.  My message is to train yourself better to handle people like this.  I don't know how big you are or how big the dude coming at you was, but I do know that he could have been easily thrown to the ground - weapon or not.  His state of mind would have made him vulnerable to easy counter attacks.  Wanting to "draw down" on a threatening guy leads me to believe you were simply afraid of him - he must have been bigger.  With better training, you will be able to think more clearly if you ever find yourself in this situation again.  Watching a few how-to video's on YouTube and then practicing with your friends is no substitute for entering a gym with qualified instructors.

Golf is supposed to be a game for gentleman.  When you incorporate alcohol, bets and personal egos, tempers can flare.  I like to think cool heads will prevail.  I think people here are suggesting you find other, less than lethal means to settle disputes on a golf course.  You are well within your rights to carry a firearm, but I propose that be your last resort.  You can get several months of self defense training for the $700+ you spend for a Sig semi-auto.  In the end, I'd rather hit a fairway than my fellow golfers!  : )

[acerimusdux]

I feel that if his friend had not stopped him and i tried to talk him down, myself or my father would have wound up in the hospital. If an irate, yelling, screaming, red faced drunk is closing distance on you quickly with a blunt force weapon, are you trying to tell me thats the time to try and holds hands while singing kumbayah?

It might have been the time to apologize and offer to get out of the way so he could play the hole.

Nothing wrong with excercising your legal right to carry. But I think some are questioning whther it really would have been needed in this scenario. Was this guy really likely to kill you over a perceived breach of golfing ettiquette? Granted, if he actually started whacking you with that club, that would be a pretty nice time to have a firearm handy. And you never know what other situations might arise.

[EZPZ]

I would too :). As far as that goes, i feel like going hands on is more likely to result in me getting hurt. I'm hesitant to try that because i see more going wrong during a fist fight than I do displaying a weapon. If someone did that to a police officer, would they charge him and tackle the guy? Probably not. Most likely ending is I draw down and he backs off I think. If he continues advancing when facing deadly force he clearly has the intent to cause me serious bodily injury and I would have no choice. Either way its a bad situation

[EZPZ]

It might have been the time to apologize and offer to get out of the way so he could play the hole. Nothing wrong with excercising your legal right to carry. But I think some are questioning whther it really would have been needed in this scenario. Was this guy really likely to kill you over a perceived breach of golfing ettiquette? Granted, if he actually started whacking you with that club, that would be a pretty nice time to have a firearm handy. And you never know what other situations might arise.

We were past the point of apologies. I do feel like the guy was going to take a swing if given the opportunity.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bshalcomb

Well, when you get into "what if" land anything can happen. Yeah the gun could get knocked from my hand. If he's that close that 5 iron could just as easily be in my skull. I'll take my chances drawing down. Like i've stated several times before. This guy wasnt some staggering barely conscious drunk. He was moving quickly and with a purpose. I feel that if his friend had not stopped him and i tried to talk him down, myself or my father would have wound up in the hospital. If an irate, yelling, screaming, red faced drunk is closing distance on you quickly with a blunt force weapon, are you trying to tell me thats the time to try and holds hands while singing kumbayah? I'm all for de-escalation, but should i have to wait until i'm on the ground bleeding before i take action? To answer your other question, i do need to take some classes. I sometimes practice use of force scenarios with a couple other guys i know and some basic tactical shooting, but i'm no Travis Haley.

All that is fair, but, turning it around a bit, I take some comfort in knowing that, around here, the drunk idiot coming at me will be waving a 5 iron and not a handgun, because it's a lot harder to get them here and you can't just carry them around. I didn't grow up in a culture that accepts firearms, so it's admittedly foreign to me. My instinct is to tell you to carry a Tazer or mace or something if you're really worried about getting into it on a golf course. I'm not a social scientist, but I have enough background in psychology and priming effects that I put stock in the analogy of applying the axiom that "If your only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." I wouldn't advocate a change in policy away from what is permitted in your area, but I would certainly advocate against making the rules here more permissible. Trying to relate it back to the original conceit of the thread, I'd hope that people would leave whatever weapons they have at home when they go golfing.

To carry this a bit further, what if it is the guy in a rage who has the gun?  Just carrying a gun doesn't automatically make a person act in a responsible manner, as we know from the number of murders every day in the US, many of which are simply the result of temper tantrums.  I'm more comfortable if the guy with the anger issues has a golf club than a 9mm.  I see the OP as inspired more by fear and paranoia than by reason.