Concealed Carry on The Course

[newtogolf]

I'm in NY, and I'm very happy with the current set up of my not having to interact with people who have guns with them. I am in favor of keeping that arrangement, and I'll eagerly avoid going to places where that environment does not exist. The nice thing about America is the state model allows for something of a free market of ideas. People can collect themselves in places where they have similar mindsets to others and fashion a society that reflects their desires, interests, and needs at a local level. Some states can have permissive gun laws and I'd very much like others to have restrictive ones, and then everyone can happily go and do their thing accordingly, content to leave the people in places that do things differently alone. That last part is very much integral to the effective functioning of this system, and it's the one we need to work on most.

As for guns on golf courses, I can't imagine why anyone would feel so compelled unless there were dangerous wildlife around the course, in which case, I'd suggest the solution might involve addressing the underlying issue. Birdies belong on golf courses. Cougars, not so much, haha.

If you're in NYC you don't have to worry about people carrying guns but on Long Island it's not that difficult to get a concealed carry permit.

[David in FL]

If you're in NYC you don't have to worry about [S]people[/S] law-abiding citizens carrying guns but on Long Island it's not that difficult to get a concealed carry permit.

Fixed it for you.....

[MS256]

To carry this a bit further, what if it is the guy in a rage who has the gun?  Just carrying a gun doesn't automatically make a person act in a responsible manner, as we know from the number of murders every day in the US, many of which are simply the result of temper tantrums.  I'm more comfortable if the guy with the anger issues has a golf club than a 9mm.  I see the OP as inspired more by fear and paranoia than by reason.

It would be ironical (in a whole lot of ways) if I came down on the anti-gun side of any argument but I don't believe in pulling a gun in the hopes of de-escalating a threat. If I ever pull a gun it will be because I feel either my life or somebody else's life is in imminent danger and the only course is to use deadly force. One guy pulls a gun and the other guy pulls his and then you have a worse situation than a guy with a 9 iron.

So basically if I pull a gun I am going to shoot it.

I'm also skeptical that somebody was so enraged that deadly force was justified and yet a friend stopped him.

Says to me that the guy was just putting on a show and wasn't going to hit anybody with anything.

[Mr. Desmond]

Well, there was this guy in Houston who decided to take his gun with him when he complained to his neighbor that there was too much noise at a birthday party at his neighbor's house. Result: He killed his neighbor and is facing life...

[David in FL]

Well, there was this guy in Houston who decided to take his gun with him when he complained to his neighbor that there was too much noise at a birthday party at his neighbor's house. Result: He killed his neighbor and is facing life...

Good.  People need to be held accountable for their actions.

[mdl]

The most dangerous thing I've seen a golf course where I live these days (southern US) was a water moccasin.

Haha.  You can get a gun for that!  We have tons of rattlesnakes where I live.  Live on a property with a couple DIY houses built by our landlord.  Good friend neighbor lives in one that has a big open area underneath where rats love to nest.  Of course that attracts rattlers interested in easy meals!  He has a bunch of shovels around but was started dating this girl, and one of the first times she came over for the night one of the rattlers camped out right outside his porch door.  Ended up killing it with a shovel, but apparently it was kinda harrowing, so he looked into the gun options and it turns out you can get specific snake guns.  Of course, a regular shotgun would do the job, but that would sorta be overkill and you can get a specific snake gun that's basically a tiny gauge stockless shotgun.  They also make what are essentially shotgun shells for 9mm handguns, sold as snake bullets.

He's not a gun guy and was just investigating online.  Went to a gun store to get some more questions answered.  The guys working there sort of sneered at him and said, "You've heard of a shovel, right?"

[mdl]

skeptical that somebody was so enraged that deadly force was justified and yet a friend stopped him.

Says to me that the guy was just putting on a show and wasn't going to hit anybody with anything.

This is basically my beef with concealed carry.  My feeling is that while it may be more humiliating, most of the kinds of situations people reference as motivation for carrying would have wildly less risk of anyone dying (you or the person/people you feel endangered by) if the CC permit holder simply put their ego aside and tried to assuage the situation.

A drunk guy with serious problems threatening you with a 9i?  99.9% of the time nothing happens if you simply put up your hands, look sincerely apologetic, and insist you're sorry, you waited on the tee and never saw them, really sorry, etc.  You may think the guy's a crazy ******* and deserves punishment and feel weak, but is your pride really worth reaching for your gun and getting into a situation where either you draw quick enough and injure/kill the the guy or he's too fast and is suddenly seriously motivated to inflict as much damage as he can with his 9i?

And even in the robbery situation it's true.  Armed robbers of random strangers on golf courses who are in it to kill someone without a perceived threat exist only in horror movies.  An armed robber robbing a stranger on a golf course just wants some money from a guy he presumes is rich cause he's golfing.  He doesn't want to kill anyone.  Suck up your pride, give him your wallet and phone and whatever, and end the day with no one having been killed.

[Dave2512]

Yep usually the first person running their mouth is the last person to take it to the next level.

[newtogolf]

Fixed it for you.....

Thanks

[Topper]

I don't blame you for carrying. Last year, I regularly played a 9-hole round with a gentlemen who was about 60 years old. I believe he worked in the finance department for a local municipality. Our schedules were similar and we often arrived at the same time.  One day I show up as usual and found out that he was mugged and severely beaten the previous day by a couple of city youths who apparently needed some pocket change. He's never been back....and I don't blame him.  I wish he had a gun with him.

At about the same time, a group of 5 or 6 city youths ranging in age from maybe 12-16 cut across the golf course on their way back from the public pool located nearby.  One of them walks onto a green and picks up this guy's ball and refused to give it back.  He looked like he was 12 or 13 and shouted a long string of obscenities and challenged the guy to get his ball back.  The only thing that finally drove them from the course was a couple of us pulling out our cell phone cameras.  The act of taking the ball was an act of aggression and defiance, but what was more disturbing and fearful was that they were effectively acting like a "pack".  Had they elected to escalate the situation, I'm not sure what we could have done.  I suppose I could have used a golf club as a weapon if I had to....but I'd prefer a gun in that situation.  I am glad the cell phone camera worked.

This year at a local park (not golf course) 4 city youths probably in their late teens (3 male and 1 female) were observed by members of our local park preservation society torturing and ultimately killing a baby duck with their bare hands.  They tried to get good photos but only got them on camera from behind.  Persons who are capable of torturing animals are mentally prepared to inflict harm on people.  These individuals deserve to be shot as a community service.

I identify these incidents as specifically related to city youths but these risks and behaviors are certainly not limited to the urban areas...but the risk for these types of encounters is probably greater in urban areas.  Paranoid or not....I'd consider carrying a gun if I had the option.  In NY, we can barely by ammunition for guns much less the guns themselves.  Except the criminals who apparently don't obey gun laws.  And for the record, I don't own a gun but would (as I said) appreciate a real option to carry one if I wanted.....on or off the course.

[Patch]

Enough said...............

[ditchparrot19]

Guns on the Golf Course? I thought the G in Golf stood for Gentleman. No offense to anyone here or whatever but threads like this make me appreciate living here in Northern California. I cant even remember the last time I've even seen a real gun in person not on the waist of a cop.

Don't get the idea that all of Northern California is like that, and I'm very thankful that it's not. Where I live, it's a piece of cake to get a concealed carry permit, and that's pretty much the norm throughout the state once you get more than about 75 miles inland from the coast (where the majority of the liberals reside). We've got four gun shops in our town of 25,000 people.

California is a "may issue" state, which leaves the decision up to your local sheriff. Every sheriff around here for at least the past quarter-century has gone on record saying that he will not deny any applicant who passes the background checks.

As for carrying on a course, I've never done it, but the courses I play up here are among the most crime-free places on earth. If I were to play an inner-city course somewhere like Sacramento or Stockton, I'd consider packing. On second thought, I'd almost certainly do it in Stockton.

[EZPZ]

It would be ironical (in a whole lot of ways) if I came down on the anti-gun side of any argument but I don't believe in pulling a gun in the hopes of de-escalating a threat. If I ever pull a gun it will be because I feel either my life or somebody else's life is in imminent danger and the only course is to use deadly force. One guy pulls a gun and the other guy pulls his and then you have a worse situation than a guy with a 9 iron. So basically if I pull a gun I am going to shoot it. I'm also skeptical that somebody was so enraged that deadly force was justified and yet a friend stopped him. :hmm:   Says to me that the guy was just putting on a show and wasn't going to hit anybody with anything.

In retrospect thats probably right. Still came too close for comfort for me. Would i have actually busted him, probably not. Would I have drawn? About 2 more steps and it would have come out had i been armed and he wasnt stopped. When you're put in that situation, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of weighing probability like that. Its a reaction. It must be a reaction. The time you don 't react to a threat or play it down might be the time that threat gets you.

[Dave2512]

You are in for a long life of living in fear if that is all it takes to convince you a gun is needed to calm a situation like that. This thread is full of rediculous tales that I doubt ever happened as told. If golf is that intimidating you should consider a new hobby.

[EZPZ]

Then so be it. Maybe I'll sell my clubs and start getting a bug out bag and new AR together. Heck with all the money i'll save on golf, in a few years I'll be able to get an M82A1 and tax stamps for some really high speed stuff. I wonder if I can get a good deal on concrete for my bunker if i buy in bulk... :)

[ditchparrot19]

You are in for a long life of living in fear if that is all it takes to convince you a gun is needed to calm a situation like that. This thread is full of rediculous tales that I doubt ever happened as told. If golf is that intimidating you should consider a new hobby.

Being intimidated implies cowering in fear and doing nothing to try to neutralize would could be an immediate threat to life or limb. That's hardly the course that bshalcomb is advocating here.

It ain't golf that's scary, man. It's all the nutjobs running around out there who turn up and wreak havoc in the least-expected places.

[EZPZ]

Being intimidated implies cowering in fear and doing nothing to try to neutralize would could be an immediate threat to life or limb. That's hardly the course that bshalcomb is advocating here. It ain't golf that's scary, man. It's all the nutjobs running around out there who turn up and wreak havoc in the least-expected places.

Exactly

[Gary L]

We were past the point of apologies. I do feel like the guy was going to take a swing if given the opportunity.

Guy might take a swing at you, you're not sure, so you shoot him in a pre-active strike? Stay the hell away from me.