When ball on path, can i choose 'nearest point of relief'?

[Dormie1360]

24-2b/3.5

 

Player Unable Physically to Determine Nearest Point of Relief

Q.In proceeding under Rule 24-2b(i) or Rule 25-1b(i), the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" provides that to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used from the original position had the obstruction or condition not been there. What is the procedure if a player is unable physically to determine the nearest point of relief because, for example, that point is within the trunk of a tree or a boundary fence prevents the player from adopting the required address position?

A.The nearest point of relief in both cases must be estimated and the player must drop the ball within one club-length of the estimated point, not nearer the hole.                      

It's always best to determine your NPR before you lift the ball.  Once you lift the ball you are committed to what may be a lousy place to drop the ball.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Dormie1360

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, Dormie1360 said:

It's always best to determine your NPR before you lift the ball.  Once you lift the ball you are committed to what may be a lousy place to drop the ball.

Excellent advice!  Never touch a ball unless you know what you're going to do with it.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Dormie1360 said:

24-2b/3.5

 

Player Unable Physically to Determine Nearest Point of Relief

Q.In proceeding under Rule 24-2b(i) or Rule 25-1b(i), the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" provides that to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used from the original position had the obstruction or condition not been there. What is the procedure if a player is unable physically to determine the nearest point of relief because, for example, that point is within the trunk of a tree or a boundary fence prevents the player from adopting the required address position?

A.The nearest point of relief in both cases must be estimated and the player must drop the ball within one club-length of the estimated point, not nearer the hole.                      

It's always best to determine your NPR before you lift the ball.  Once you lift the ball you are committed to what may be a lousy place to drop the ball.

Or you may replace the ball and add one penalty stroke for lifting it when not proceeding under a rule which allows lifting.

[Dormie1360]

11 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Or you may replace the ball and add one penalty stroke for lifting it when not proceeding under a rule which allows lifting.

True, should have said you are committed to the drop unless you want a penalty.

Once lifted you can also drop the ball in the lousy lie and then proceed under the Unplayable Ball Rule for 1PS.

[DrvFrShow]

2 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

Ran into this the last time I played and I am not sure about what I did..  If the NPR is an a bushy area that I can't physically walk into is it still the NPR?  

What are my options really?  

sorry for bad picture.. Red is bushy area that I can't walk into, is my only real option to play off the cart path?  Or do I have other things in not seeing here?

Player Unable Physically to Determine Nearest Point of Relief

Q.In proceeding under Rule 24-2b(i) or Rule 25-1b(i), the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" provides that to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used from the original position had the obstruction or condition not been there. What is the procedure if a player is unable physically to determine the nearest point of relief because, for example, that point is within the trunk of a tree or a boundary fence prevents the player from adopting the required address position?

A.The nearest point of relief in both cases must be estimated and the player must drop the ball within one club-length of the estimated point, not nearer the hole.

 

 

 

If you are right handed, your nearest point of relief no nearer the hole is on the opposite side of the cart path because dropping between the cart path and the bushes is nearer the hole.

If you are left handed, your nearest point of relief no nearer the hole is on the opposite side of the cart path.

Then follow the procedures regarding the one club length of the estimated point. 

Also if when you place your ball at the NPR if you are still standing on the cart path, the NPR can be on the opposite side if that is no nearer the hole.

I would really only worry about playing this to the letter except in a tournament for some decent prize money. I'm not wrecking my clubs playing off a paved cart path.

[Abu3baid]

21 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

 

If you are right handed, your nearest point of relief no nearer the hole is on the opposite side of the cart path because dropping between the cart path and the bushes is nearer the hole.

If you are left handed, your nearest point of relief no nearer the hole is on the opposite side of the cart path.

Then follow the procedures regarding the one club length of the estimated point. 

Also if when you place your ball at the NPR if you are still standing on the cart path, the NPR can be on the opposite side if that is no nearer the hole.

I would really only worry about playing this to the letter except in a tournament for some decent prize money. I'm not wrecking my clubs playing off a paved cart path.

Are you sure about that?  The hole is on a diagonal from where I am, so on either side of the path would be the same distance to the hole no?

it might not seem that way, but that's what it seems like to me..  

[DrvFrShow]

Looking at the number two option. The second choice would be straight back 90 degrees across the path, not on the diagonal.

[Fourputt]

14 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Are you sure about that?  The hole is on a diagonal from where I am, so on either side of the path would be the same distance to the hole no?

it might not seem that way, but that's what it seems like to me..  

Yep.  From where that ball is theoretically spotted, I think that the NPR is in the red regardless of the angle.  A lot depends on the scale, but for a typical 7-8 foot wide cart path, the NPR is still closer on the near side.

2 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Looking at the number two option. The second choice would be straight back 90 degrees across the path, not on the diagonal.

There is no option.  The NPR is one spot and only one spot, except in rare cases of 2 points which are equidistant from where the ball lies.

[Rulesman]

The nearest point of relief (NPR) is in relation to where the ball lies. If your diagram is showing the ball at the blue square then you have to determine whether the upper star is nearer the square than the lower star. Both stars must be be not nearer the hole than the square.

Having determined which star is at the NPR (it looks like the upper), then you must drop within 1cl of that star not nearer the hole. 

[Missouri Swede]

1 minute ago, Rulesman said:

Having determined which star is at the NPR (it looks like the upper), then you must drop within 1cl of that star not nearer the hole. 

And the point the ball ends up must still give complete relief from the cartpath, correct?  (I.e., can't drop so the ball is off the cartpath, but stance is still on?)

[Fourputt]

2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

And the point the ball ends up must still give complete relief from the cartpath, correct?  (I.e., can't drop so the ball is off the cartpath, but stance is still on?)

Correct.

[DrvFrShow]

At which time you repeat the exercise on the opposite side of the cart path so you can drop where your feet are not on the cart path.

You don't get penalized for following logic and going there in the first place.

[Rulesman]

Just now, DrvFrShow said:

At which time you repeat the exercise on the opposite side of the cart path so you can drop where your feet are not on the cart path.

You don't get penalized for following logic and going there in the first place.

If the point on the opposite side of the path is further away than the point in the bush, it is not the nearest.

Remember, the rule require the 'nearest' not the 'nicest' point of relief.

[Fourputt]

3 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

At which time you repeat the exercise on the opposite side of the cart path so you can drop where your feet are not on the cart path.

You don't get penalized for following logic and going there in the first place.

You aren't getting the point.  The NPR is the NEAREST point to where the ball lies on the path which gives compete relief.  That is always going to be your reference point for dropping.  You must then drop on a point no more than one clublength from that point and not closer to the hole which still gives complete relief.  If the ball rolls back into a point of interference, then the player must drop a second time.  If the same thing happens again, then he places the ball on the spot where it first touched the course when dropped.  Since that point is required to be out of the interference zone, there is no option to go to the other side of the cart path and drop some more.

[DrvFrShow]

So in this case his best choice is to putt the ball down the cart path out around the bush and hopefully off the cart path nearer the hole or somewhere off the cart path to a better lie.

[Rulesman]

4 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

So in this case his best choice is to putt the ball down the cart path out around the bush and hopefully off the cart path nearer the hole or somewhere off the cart path to a better lie.

Possibly, providing he can get it to a better position than declaring it unplayable and taking a penalty drop using one of the 3 options available.

[Dormie1360]

19 hours ago, Fourputt said:

You aren't getting the point.  The NPR is the NEAREST point to where the ball lies on the path which gives compete relief.  That is always going to be your reference point for dropping.  You must then drop on a point no more than one clublength from that point and not closer to the hole which still gives complete relief.  If the ball rolls back into a point of interference, then the player must drop a second time.  If the same thing happens again, then he places the ball on the spot where it first touched the course when dropped the second time.  Since that point is required to be out of the interference zone, there is no option to go to the other side of the cart path and drop some more.

Added fro clarity.

[Martyn W]

22 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Also if when you place your ball at the NPR if you are still standing on the cart path, the NPR can be on the opposite side if that is no nearer the hole.

You don't place the ball at the NPR, you drop it within 1 cl of that point no nearer the hole. Moreover, it is not the NPR by definition if your feet would be on the path.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Martyn W