Where Would Golf Be...........

[Lihu]

Is that just what you think? Or do you have solid evidence/proof of it?

Everything I've read says there are not a lot more black people playing golf now than in 1995, and though Tiger IS half Thai, he's seen as "black" more than anything.

Only anecdotal evidence, but every Asian family that I know of relates more to Tiger than even to KJ. I relate more to KJ because he has a similar abdominal stature as myself.

My nephews are definitely in it for Tiger. Everything they own is Nike or something else he uses or wears.

However, you are probably correct for the majority of Asian players. Most of them are in it because they can't afford to play in Asia (300USD per round or more plus memberships), so when they come to the US they play, a lot.

As far as African-American golfers, I guess So. Cal. has only a moderate number of players.

I'm not too sure about the 2-3% figure for So. Cal., but it would be interesting to find out. We play year around, so maybe the number of rounds is fairly large, but the overall population is not that much higher percentage-wise?

[RJH999]

Only anecdotal evidence, but every Asian family that I know of relates more to Tiger than even to KJ. I relate more to KJ because he has a similar abdominal stature as myself. :-$ My nephews are definitely in it for Tiger. Everything they own is Nike or something else he uses or wears. :beer: However, you are probably correct for the majority of Asian players. Most of them are in it because they can't afford to play in Asia (300USD per round or more plus memberships), so when they come to the US they play, a lot. As far as African-American golfers, I guess So. Cal. has only a moderate number of players. I'm not too sure about the 2-3% figure for So. Cal., but it would be interesting to find out. We play year around, so maybe the number of rounds is fairly large, but the overall population is not that much higher percentage-wise?

I dunno. I think a lot of Asians relate to KJ. My dad certainly does lol(And He's Taiwanese).

[Lihu]

I dunno. I think a lot of Asians relate to KJ. My dad certainly does lol(And He's Taiwanese).

I'm half Taiwanese, and I do relate** more to KJ.

**Because of the stout Asian no figure torso.

[RJH999]

I'm half Taiwanese, and I do relate** more to KJ. :beer: **Because of the stout Asian no figure torso. :-$

Haha. I relate to Rickie Fowler. ;-) :dance: I do have some serious love for KJ though.

[Spitfisher]

I don't know that it's been proven that Tiger was responsible for much of anything. He may have just happened to come along at a time when golf was going to boom regardless. Minorities still don't play a lot more golf. I read a few articles a few years ago that talked about how, due to the boom in the economy and so on, golf would have boomed along with it whether Tiger had existed or not. So golf might be exactly where it is now.

I would have to agree with the above, he, Tiger grew viewership, prize money, sponsorships......but really did not grow the sport in "participation" for any color skin, gender or age. Its abig misconception for a lot people. Yes some people took up golf, but a fair amount gave it up. Where would golf be today, I believe we would be speaking about the same concerns we have today, with or with out him, decline participation, slow play, complexed rules and genrally a tough sport to get very good at. Much has changed since the year 2000, many of us and lots of kids want instant gratification be it success or being good at something. Golf I believe suffers from this mindset that it can be picked up immediatly and you'll shoot 80 the first year.

[Lihu]

I would have to agree with the above, he, Tiger grew viewership, prize money, sponsorships......but really did not grow the sport in "participation" for any color skin, gender or age. Its abig misconception for a lot people. Yes some people took up golf, but a fair amount gave it up.

Where would golf be today, I believe we would be speaking about the same concerns we have today, with or with out him, decline participation, slow play, complexed rules and genrally a tough sport to get very good at. Much has changed since the year 2000, many of us and lots of kids want instant gratification be it success or being good at something. Golf I believe suffers from this mindset that it can be picked up immediatly and you'll shoot 80 the first year.

It's also possible that the people with the strategy game mindset have many on line strategy games to keep them busy. Those games are actually pretty hard, and possibly as much effort as golf.

The problem is not the difficulty of the game, it's the difficulty in finding friendly places to play.

It was a pretty exclusive sport in this country. It seemed like only the privileged few could play. You had exclusive memberships to country clubs, which were designed to limit anyone from joining and playing. This attitude turned off a lot of people.

The First Tee program is getting a lot of young people exposed to the sport, and has the potential to build an entire generation of kids that will grow up and want to play golf. This is the foundation to a good future for golf, but only if they have nice and welcoming places to play.

It's not the difficulty of the game that turns people off, it's the popular history of exclusivity that makes many people not like it.

[billchao]

I came across this article that I thought was relevant to this discussion:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/been-here-finchem-asked-about-tigers-decline/

Quote:

“Lately with Tiger being injured more often the last three, four years, I'm getting the question again the other way: ‘OK, when Tiger's gone, how do you manage the sport?’ Well, fans like golf. They like to watch golf. They like to watch some players more than others, there's no question about that. And I think Tiger's got a long shelf life in terms of being a contributor because people like watching him play golf regardless of the records - even though the records are of keen interest to fans also.

“So I don't think you'll see a lot changing in the short term. But when it does, when he passes by, we will have other players, [like] Rory McIlroy .”

Fans and the media love their sports icons, but I think this needed to be said by someone who has been there. Golf didn't fade away because Jack did, and it won't because Tiger is. If Tiger wasn't Tiger, I think golf would still be about what it is today.

Other factors led to the increase in popularity of golf (mostly economic). I think Tiger is more a product of that, rather than the cause of.

[BrownCoast]

If you look at golfers from way back...and I mean waaaaaaaay back in the day up until just before Tiger came along, how many were built like they are now? Sure theres still golfers on tour that may be closer to the bowling ball frame then the "athletic" frame but look at all that do look like pure athletes. Tiger, Rory, Keegan, A Scott, and Rickie just to name a few. Not to mention all the workouts that are geared towards golfers and ways to increase flexibility and power.

Its crazy to think Tiger did nothing for golf! His popularity attracted so much attention from fans, companies and sponsors. He single handedly raised the level of play for all current golfers. So I guess if we disregard ratings going up in tournaments he played in. Him getting paid to play in tournaments. The new breed of "athletic" golfer. Nike paying $250 million just for him to play and wear nike. Buick sponsoring him. EA sports using his name on their golf game for over a decade. Then yeah you can say he did nothing for golf...where would golf be? Well it would still be where it is today, it just wouldn't be as good as it is. The long hitters wouldn't be as many or as far, the prize money would still be huge but I don't think as huge. We probably wouldn't have the Tiger slam (or the name of someone else instead of Tiger) no discussions of "will he beat Jacks major record?"

I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not  a Tiger fan. Most of the time it seemed like he was acting like a little bi*ch on the course when he misses a putt or hits into trouble, but Tiger Woods is "THE MAM" when it comes to golf. I think now you see a lighter side of Tiger where he is joking more often but there was a long time when he always seemed way too serious.

All I can say for sure is thank God that Puma came along to do something about the awful fashion that took place for the past 400 years!

[Spitfisher]

It's also possible that the people with the strategy game mindset have many on line strategy games to keep them busy. Those games are actually pretty hard, and possibly as much effort as golf.

The problem is not the difficulty of the game, it's the difficulty in finding friendly places to play.

It was a pretty exclusive sport in this country. It seemed like only the privileged few could play. You had exclusive memberships to country clubs, which were designed to limit anyone from joining and playing. This attitude turned off a lot of people.

The First Tee program is getting a lot of young people exposed to the sport, and has the potential to build an entire generation of kids that will grow up and want to play golf. This is the foundation to a good future for golf, but only if they have nice and welcoming places to play.

It's not the difficulty of the game that turns people off, it's the popular history of exclusivity that makes many people not like it.

By some accounts the first tee  has not proven its goal. As an organization if they provide one kid with the desire to play golf and learn life skills, fine, great it worth it. . However the first tee is now 17+ years old during this tenure there are fewer entries into the game of golf as well as golfers now than decades earlier. Although well funded and has the several organizations behind the first tee it the real truth is, it has not worked.

and I disagree for most young adults and teens the number one reason is difficulty, boredum, complex rules etc I would venture to say a vast majority on this site were introduced to golf by a friend or relative on a MUNI course not a exclusive country club as you indicate. We learned how to play hockey on a neighborhood pond, basketball on a neighbors driveway or park- same with baseball.....golf is no different.

[inthehole]

Well, I started playing golf Before Tiger came along, so there you have it...

... and I started playing at 46 years old in 2010, couldn't have cared less when he came onto the scene in the early 90's, or for golf in general in those days. I actually remember saying while flipping through golf on tv back then it was like watching grass grow compared to the traditional action sports that I played.     Not many people got up one day in the early 90's and said to themselves, hmmmm, there's this young guy that can hit the crap out of a golf ball & I see is winning a lot of tournaments, maybe I'll go out and buy $500 worth of golf gear and give it a try.

I think you had to have some sort of  "in" to get into golf (company outing, family member or friend that golfs, etc), regardless of the era.

[inthehole]

to put the final thought on what I started ^ ... I think TIger definitely added a lot to the game by raising TV ratings, and making a lot of non-golfers interested in watching golf from a spectator point of view.     I just don't think he is responsible for getting people that had no previous disposition to want to play golf to start playing golf -. that almost always requires some sort of an "in" as I mentioned above ...

... same as fly fishing in that way - being successful at it is pretty technical & not a lot of guys start fly fishing out of the blue without somebody showing them the ropes.

[Lihu]

By some accounts the first tee  has not proven its goal. As an organization if they provide one kid with the desire to play golf and learn life skills, fine, great it worth it. . However the first tee is now 17+ years old during this tenure there are fewer entries into the game of golf as well as golfers now than decades earlier. Although well funded and has the several organizations behind the first tee it the real truth is, it has not worked.

and I disagree for most young adults and teens the number one reason is difficulty, boredum, complex rules etc I would venture to say a vast majority on this site were introduced to golf by a friend or relative on a MUNI course not a exclusive country club as you indicate. We learned how to play hockey on a neighborhood pond, basketball on a neighbors driveway or park- same with baseball.....golf is no different.

We don't really know that it didn't work, though. It's quite possible that the situation could be much more dire without it. Plus, I think the number of kids has grown almost exponentially in the last 5 years according to some of the kids.

Some of the kids that were there 15 years ago are now instructors in the program. One of them was even in the Canadian Tour. These "kids" mentioned to me that the program seemed to be growing really fast in the last few years.

If more D1 colleges accept kids into their schools to play on the golf teams even without scholarships, there would even more kids playing golf. Probably double or triple. To be honest that's the main reason many of the families around here are playing. Get them on the course for some other reason and many of them will get the bug, once they are hooked. . .