The grip and how it effects your release

[Ringer]

There are so many points to cover in this topic that I know I won't be able to cover all of them. But there are some things I think people should understand. I'm just going to talk about this from the right handers perspective and if you are left handed please excuse me for not being multi-cultured enough to include you. It just takes up so much dang time to flip it around.

First, the placement of the left thumb.

Why do I bring this up? Because so many people get it wrong that it's not even funny. I've even heard some golf instrutors get this wrong.

It is only natural to place the thumb close to the first knuckle of the index finger. It feels tighter on the grip, but this is 100% WRONG. It will encourage the bending of the left wrist AND SLICES! I will explain why in just a moment. The correct placement of the left thumb is just slightly to the side AWAY from the knuckle of the index finger.

The reason for this is because it acts as the ONLY pressure point that the left hand has on the back end of the shaft. Think about this for a moment here. When you get to impact, where do you want the pressure you are applying to be?? On TOP of the shaft pushing DOWN, or BEHIND the shaft pushing FORWARD?

Your instict is to put that pressure point BEHIND the shaft and push it forward with your thumb. This is the "karate chop" motion. If you just make a backhand motion with your thumb on top of the shaft, you will feel weak and helpless to control the club. So your natural inclination is to rotate your left forearm so that the thumb is behind the club at impact. Well guess what that does to the clubface! It opens it up and there you have your push slices.

Also, look at the top of the backswing. Your left arm does not go straight up vertically, it goes at an angle accross your chest. So do this little experment for me.

Put just your left hand on the club with the thumb on top and lift your arm up accross your chest over your right shoulder. This puts your forearm at an angle. Now because of that angle, this is going to put your thumb to the SIDE of the shaft at the top where it cannot support the shaft. Your only option is to cup your left hand to get the thumb under the shaft.

So a left thumb on TOP of the shaft causes two things. A cup left wrist at the top, and promotes an open clubface at impact.


The other thing about the grip that I would like to mention is a simple thing that most people don't really think about too often.

The clubface angle (open or closed) rely's on the rotation of your forearms at the setup and their ability to reach that same rotation when you get to impact. If you take a strong grip, you have rotated your forearms clockwise slightly. You must reach this clockwise position when you get to impact. In order to do that, you must "hold off" any sort of natural rotation of the forearms or else you'll hook the shot. This is also known as blocking.

Your lead arm also has an inclination to hold the club at an angle between your left forearm and clubshaft. You NATURALLY want to hold the club shaft in an L shape to your forearm. This is commonly refered to as lag.

With a stronger grip, you will be less likely to release this angle for impact and have your hands much further in front of the ball than if you had a neutral grip. Now I'm all for the hands leading ahead of the clubhead for impact but often times this is exagerated to the point where the club is delofted by nearly 2 clubs. So your 8 iron becomes your 6. As a result I see a lot of people with strong grips try to hit the ball UP into the air and wreak all sorts of havoc. That's just aching for shanks and duck hooks.

Another result of a strong grip is what I call the "Left Side Twistaway". The left hip pulls hard away from the ball which pulls the left shoulder open and causes a big outside to in swing path with the HANDS. With a strong grip though the CLUBHEAD comes from the inside so what you have is and inside to out clubhead direction and an outside to in hand direction. If timed perfectly it can produce a straight shot, but if not then there will be dramatic changes in ball flight from swing to swing.

Probably the best golfer to date that has perfected the "Strong Grip With Left Side Twistaway" is Rory Sabatini.

Anyway, the point is that if you are looking for a proper release to get that awsome compression feeling, I suggest you look to your grip first... and be careful about some of the advice that's out there on the grip. A lot of people make observations about what everyone else is doing and not enough observations about why they're doing it.

[silliwilli]

this made my head hurt

[silliwilli]

though maybe thats why im 9 and your scratch

[Crate]

It looks too long to read right now, I just changed my grip up a slight bit. Instructor said it would best. Anyways now the only thing i can think about was my damn thumb. I had it everywhere. I finally found the spot he wanted me to place it.
All I can say I think I'm just gonna play learn a little bit at a time. between this forum, the range, the lessons, and all the tips I get, the golf channel, my head is going to simply fly off my body. It's too much. I am having so much fun right now but I can see how this could turn into something if you try to listen to everyone. I'm just gonna develop my swing and have fun.

[seppo]

Chapter One: The Grip, Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf, Ben Hogan... All that you wrote is right if you are more of a Pitcher than a Puncher... (Do these Terms exist in English?) What I mean with it, if you have a very step swing angle, your Grip should be the way you described it, but what about tiny, strong people with more of a sweeping swing? They dont want to push down I suppose

[Ringer]

this made my head hurt

Rats, now you know my secret. The more difficult I make it to follow the less likely someone will argue!

BRILLIANT!

[keb]

Thank for the effort you put into this post. I have been pushing to the right and more recently also slicing my drives. I am going to go with stronger grip tomorrow with left thumb more to the right. Your post may help problem which I have been struggling with for the last month. Thanks. I promise to report results on Wed.

[Diggitydog]

I need pictures to understand what you mean.

[fusioncal]

I'm totally lost. This is so much like the math class I took at college which I didn't follow at all and the instructor kept going and going until the end of the class. And I thought the instructor was using a different language.

I think if you put pictures and the instructions below them will help us a lot understanding what you're saying. I believe you have a point here about the placement of the left thumb and I'd like very much to listen to you.

[Ringer]

Sorry that it wasn't written as well as I had it in mind.

Bottom line, you should set up with the left thumb slightly to the right of the grip.

The reason is two fold.

1) When you swing forward, you need pressure on the BACK side of the shaft to push the club forward. Your thumb is that pressure point. If you start off with the thumb on top of the shaft, then you must rotate the clubface open to put the thumb on the backside of the shaft when you swing forward.

2) At the top of the backswing the left thumb needs to be directly under the shaft in order to keep it from comming loose. If you put the thumb ON TOP of the shaft at the setup then you must cup your left hand when you reach the top.

[Diggitydog]

Now that is clear!

I'll check it out on my swing. I put my thumb on the top of the shaft currently.

On point 2) why does the club really need to be directly under? Are you saying that naturally the wrist will cup so that the thumb ends up under the shaft or that if you don't cup your wrist and your thumb isn't under the shaft at the top you'll have a problem?

[Ringer]

Now that is clear!

What will hold the club up if not your thumb? Your only other option is the right hand. Well if you're trying to swing at all with your left arm, you've just blown that.

Here, just a quick demonstration. Grab a cup with your left hand and hold onto it tightly. Now with your right hand, try to pull it out of your left hand. You can ONLY pull it out of your left hand through the gap between your fingers and thumb... right? Essentially there is no pressure on that part of the cup to resist your pull. No matter how tight you hold the cup, you can pull it out if you go that direction. Now put your left hand on the club with your thumb snug up against your index finger so that it's on top of the shaft. Notice that you can pull the club in the same direction out of your hand that you pulled the cup? But if you put your thumb slightly to the side, that gap between your fingers and thumb is closed and you can no longer pull it out that direction.

[Ghetto P]

You don't want the clubhead square at the point of compression. You want it slightly open but closing (releasing). Otherwise you'll hit a hook.

Thanks for the tidbits though. Grip is the most important fundamental.

[Ringer]

You don't want the clubhead square at the point of compression. You want it slightly open but closing (releasing). Otherwise you'll hit a hook.

This deserves another thread....

[Mr. Writing Desk]

I think this is excellent advice, even though it's a little hard to describe without pictures. I've had problems with my left wrist breaking down at the top, resulting in a constant fade, and also a rather ugly Furyk type loop at the beginning of my downswing in an effort to get the face back in a respectable position from being wide open at the top.

Ringer , I'm wondering what you might think of this description. If one makes a karate chop type of position with one's hand, the thumb will be pressed against the knuckle at the base of the index finger -- this I believe is what you mean by a thumb position that leads to an open clubface.

But if one makes an "ok" sign (with the index finger and the thumb, there will be roughly a 3/4 inch space between the thumb and that same knuckle. As you look at the ok sign, drawing line from the center of the thumbnail straight down the thumb to the wrist, and at the wrist, there's a tendon that runs toward the center of the inside of one's elbow.

I feel like I get my left hand correctly placed on the club if I maintain that line from the tip of my thumb, down through the tendon at the wrist, all the way to the elbow. From there, I simply need to straighten my thumb a bit, line up all my fingers (in a slightly staggered position so that the tips of my fingers are pretty much parallel to the lifeline on my palm) and rotate them slightly away from the thumb in order to get my left hand in the right position to grip the club. Keeping that line at setup means I've set my thumb in the right position to keep my left wrist flat at the top (even with the wrist cock), and, even better, it keeps my fingers in a good position to keep the grip in my fingers, rather than choking it in my palm.

I'd be curious if you think this "ok" hand sign helps illustrate the concept you're talking about, rather than over-rotating the thumb so that it would be closer to the ring finger during the grip. I just came up with this on my own and it seems to work for me. My left wrist is much flatter at the top now, and my swing has improved immensely.

[silliwilli]

Sorry that it wasn't written as well as I had it in mind.

perfect, my head no longer hurts and I am able to agree with you! definatly do not be getting your thumb on top of the shaft!!

[Ringer]

I think this is excellent advice, even though it's a little hard to describe without pictures. I've had problems with my left wrist breaking down at the top, resulting in a constant fade, and also a rather ugly Furyk type loop at the beginning of my downswing in an effort to get the face back in a respectable position from being wide open at the top.

Hmm, i'm not sure about the "ok" sign, but keeping the thumb in line with the top of the forerarm (or tendon as you pointed out) is fantastic. I hadn't even noticed that alignment.

[doublesuited77]

great thread... one mental thought i tend to use is remembering to "lift the tray" at the top of the backswing. This ensure that you keep your thumb under the club and will enable proper rotation on the downswing.