Jump to content
IGNORED

Wedges: Scor v Vokey v 588 Rtx v MacDaddy 2...Best?


tnull
Note: This thread is 3494 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I currently carry 52-10*, 56-16*, 60-12*. I play in So Cal, firm dry courses. I am a sweeper, not a digger. Probably too much bounce. Current clubs have no texture on the faces, only grooves. They play ok, but not much spin. Head shape most like the 588. I use them all for full shots, half shots, pitches and chips. Any advice is appreciated.

Taylormade SLDR S Driver, 3w, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6h
Taylormade RSI 2 7i, 8i, 9i
Cleveland 46w, 52w, 56w, 60w
Acer CB2 putter
Ogio Chamber cart bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I currently carry 52-10*, 56-16*, 60-12*. I play in So Cal, firm dry courses. I am a sweeper, not a digger. Probably too much bounce. Current clubs have no texture on the faces, only grooves. They play ok, but not much spin. Head shape most like the 588. I use them all for full shots, half shots, pitches and chips. Any advice is appreciated.

Texture on the face does nothing to affect spin.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I currently have the Vokey wedges, and I need to replace my 54*. I saw the Edel video, and looked at their website, and although they cost a tad more than off the rack clubs, imho they are well worth the extra $$. Here's a video of Edel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Hi Shorty, If you check the scientific research, the surface between the grooves creates the most friction. So a rougher surface creates greater friction. The top edge of the grooves that contact the ball add to this friction. So a smooth surface with grooves will not have as much friction as a rougher surface with the same grooves. See Tom Wishon's article on wedge spin. That being said, I was asking for experience in spin between the different wedges and their different surfaces. Thanks for your input, do you have experience with any of these wedges?

Taylormade SLDR S Driver, 3w, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6h
Taylormade RSI 2 7i, 8i, 9i
Cleveland 46w, 52w, 56w, 60w
Acer CB2 putter
Ogio Chamber cart bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

If you check the scientific research, the surface between the grooves creates the most friction. So a rougher surface creates greater friction. The top edge of the grooves that contact the ball add to this friction. So a smooth surface with grooves will not have as much friction as a rougher surface with the same grooves. See Tom Wishon's article on wedge spin.

That being said, I was asking for experience in spin between the different wedges and their different surfaces.

http://sinclairgolf.com/research/83-which-wedge-spins-the-most

The scientific research is ongoing, and the more credible and larger number of studies seem to point towards face texture having little to nothing to do with spin.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Then what do you say creates spin? Physics would suggest that contact outside the axis of the ball, thus creating a force outside the center, as well as speed of the clubhead, creating the speed of the force outside the center and friction to apply the force to the ball all combine to create spin. Are you saying that a smooth face creates as much friction as a rough face? It does not make sense to me, but if you want to direct me to the studies I would love to read them. Thanks!

Taylormade SLDR S Driver, 3w, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6h
Taylormade RSI 2 7i, 8i, 9i
Cleveland 46w, 52w, 56w, 60w
Acer CB2 putter
Ogio Chamber cart bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Then what do you say creates spin?

Friction. But friction exists on smooth milled faces, smooth cast faces, rougher milled faces, etc.

The USGA regulates surface texture and the regulations are so tight that you can't create the "sharp edges" necessary to create additional spin.

Are you saying that a smooth face creates as much friction as a rough face? It does not make sense to me, but if you want to direct me to the studies I would love to read them. Thanks!

I gave you a link to one of them. There are others.

You seem to be overstating how "rough" a surface texture is allowed to be. You can't make steel 20-grit sandpaper textures on your wedge faces and expect it to pass the USGA guidelines/requirements on surface texture. :)

Furthermore, as a 20 index, you have a lot of other things to worry about before you get into the surface texture of your wedges.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
I thought the milling on the face of golf clubs was to make them flatter (because it's easier to manufacture a flat surface by milling as opposed to casting or grinding)?

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
I thought the milling on the face of golf clubs was to make them flatter (because it's easier to manufacture a flat surface by milling as opposed to casting or grinding)?


Pretty much, yes. Milling is primarily used to create uniformly flat surfaces. Some companies "hide" the milling marks, other companies let them show.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Looked at the link, did not see it before. I believe they are saying that milling did nit seem to increasefiction, but that a rougher surface would increase friction. So the issue is if the surface of any of the wedges has a rough enough surface to increaee friction or is it all groove driven.

Taylormade SLDR S Driver, 3w, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6h
Taylormade RSI 2 7i, 8i, 9i
Cleveland 46w, 52w, 56w, 60w
Acer CB2 putter
Ogio Chamber cart bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Looked at the link, did not see it before. I believe they are saying that milling did nit seem to increasefiction, but that a rougher surface would increase friction. So the issue is if the surface of any of the wedges has a rough enough surface to increaee friction or is it all groove driven.


And such a rougher surface is not allowed under the Rules for equipment. The manufacturers have taken surface texture as far as it can go. Until you could create "edges" that "bit" into the ball more, friction won't be increased. Current results suggest that the legal amount of milling and "surface texture" has virtually no effect on spin.

Remember, friction is a function of materials and surface area. Increasing texture (without increasing it so much it's actually "rough" - which again is illegal) reduces surface area. The total friction is roughly the same - it's increased on any specific point of contact, but there are less points of contact (surface area).


Again, as a 20, I'd recommend spending your time elsewhere for now.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks for the reply. That makes sense now. You keep referring to me spending my time elsewhere...lol! Yes, I am not a scratch golfer, or close at this point. I have been taking lessons for a year now. My swing is pretty good now, or so my instructor says. I am not focused on this, just curious. A little background: I have a degree in Kinesiology. I coached high school track. I am extremely analytical. I am a self taught woodworker, make furniture as a hobby. Worked as a bike mechanic during college. I tend to dissect anything I get involved with. So when I began looking for new wedges, I poured over all the info I could find. Not obsessively, but to know as much as I reasonably could about them to make an informed decision. I do the same for all important purchases. I know that new wedges will not make me Phil with these clubs. I recently purchased new woods, hybrids and irons. A consistent swing has made golf enjoyable and I look forward to improving my consistency and course management. Short game is also on the list. Hence the desire to purchase new wedges. My main area of improvement will be to reduce the bounce, as it is probably too much for my local conditions. I just was curious about spin as well. Again, thanks for your comments.

Taylormade SLDR S Driver, 3w, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6h
Taylormade RSI 2 7i, 8i, 9i
Cleveland 46w, 52w, 56w, 60w
Acer CB2 putter
Ogio Chamber cart bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Totally anecdotal but I just picked up a new Vokey 60 degree. After the hitting the range and playing one round I really am feeling good about this club. Not saying too much as the stick it replaced was an ancient Spaldling.

Respectfully,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

IMO, difference between the wedges you specified is not about the face or spin as @iacas and @Shorty stated but about the grinds and bounce.  Callaway has introduced more grinds with the newest "Tour Grinds" release but overall I think Vokey and Edel still offer the greatest number of grind and bounce options and both can create custom wedges for you if you don't find a combo you like off the shelf.

Once you determine what the best grind and bounce would be for the courses you play, you can limit your choices and try out the wedges that best match what you need.

Joe Paradiso

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Totally anecdotal but I just picked up a new Vokey 60 degree. After the hitting the range and playing one round I really am feeling good about this club. Not saying too much as the stick it replaced was an ancient Spaldling.

A lot of that may just be new grooves on the Vokey. The same Vokey after a few years of playing will feel a lot different than a copy of it you take out of plastic wrap a few years from now to compare because of the effect the fresh grooves will have. Notwithstanding that, the new Vokey wedges are wonderful products.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I had 50, 54 and 60 Vokeys in Oil Can.  I decided to upgrade, and went with, 52 Hopkins, 56 Vokey Indigo, and 60 Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour Grind.    I've had great results with these, and while I prefer to go with the same brand on all my wedges, I'm quite happy w/ the spin and control of my wedges.  The Callaway and Vokey are great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Like Nomo, all my wedges aren't the same brand. My 52 and 56 are Vokeys, and my 60 is a Cleveland 588. I go with what works. All the wedges noted in this thread are great, you just need to find what works best for your game. The most important factor to consider in my opinion is bounce... Give yourself the most options for different conditions and lies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3494 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • I run tournaments and want to put in a local rule that allows relief from tree roots and rocks that are not loose impediments. We have some really terrible lies in some of our courses in my area and nobody is getting paid enough to break clubs. Let me know if you think the verbage for this rule makes sense. Local Rule Roots and Rocks You may move your ball from a tree root or buried rock one club length for free relief no closer to the hole. However you may not use this rule to get relief from a tree, bush, boulder, or other foliage hindering your swing. Your only option here is to play it as it lies or take an unplayable for a one stroke penalty.
    • Makes sense.  Like I said, I wouldn't have been upset at their original offer either, and based on the fine print it seems like they've held up their end of the deal.  
    • If you've only had to adjust retroactively one time in 8 years and have around 5 people each year without handicaps, that's like 40-50 people total so it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job. I think your questions give enough to go off of. This might be a good way to get new people to actually post a few scores during the 6 weeks leading into the first event. Something like "New members will be eligible for tournament money once they have at least 3 posted rounds in GHIN" or something like that. If they can get 3 rounds in prior to their first event, then they're eligible. If not, they'll soon become eligible after an event or two assuming they play a little bit outside of events.
    • This is a loooooong winded narrative so if you don't like long stories, move on. 😉 Our senior club typically gets about 25 new members each year. We lose about 25 members each year for various reasons (moved to FL/AZ, disabled, dead, too expensive). Of the new members, usually 20 have an active GHIN handicap. About 5 each year do not have a GHIN handicap. When they join our club, we give each member a state association membership that includes GHIN handicapping services. We play a series of handicapped tournaments over the summer. When we sign up a new member who does not have a GHIN handicap, we attempt to give them an estimated index until they have sufficient scores posted to have an actual GHIN index.  Our first event typically is around May 15 so, in theory, a new member has about 6 weeks to post a few scores. Posting season in the Mitten starts April 1. Inevitably, several of the unhandicapped individuals seem  to either not play until the first tournament or can't figure out how to enter scores (hey, they are seniors). That situation then leads to my contacting the new member and asking a series of questions: a. Did you ever have a GHIN handicap? If yes, which State and do you recall what it was? b. Do you have an alternate handicap through a non-GHIN handicap service or a league? c. What do you think your average score was last year (for 9 or 18) d. What was your best score last year? Where did you play and which tee was used? e. What do you consider a very good score for yourself? Based on their responses I attempt to give them an index that makes them competitive in the first couple events BUT does not allow them to win their flight in the first couple events. We don't want the new members to finish last and at the same time, we don't want someone with a "20" playing handicap to win the third flight with a net 57. In the event some new member did shoot a net 57, we also advise everyone that we can and will adjust handicaps retroactively when it is clear to us that a member's handicap does not accurately reflect their potential. We don't like to adjust things retroactively and in the 8 years I have chaired the Handicap Committee, we have only done it once. So here are the questions to the mob: Any ideas how to do this better? Any questions one might ask an unhandicapped individual to better estimate their index/handicap? Would it be reasonable to have a new player play once (or more?) without being eligible to place in the money?
    • Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟨 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...