Progressive sets or flow sets with irons

[JP golf]

We have seen it both ways with combo sets irons/hybrids and with the irons that go from muscle back/partial cavity/full cavity.  I have been considering getting new clubs and was wondering what were some thoughts on better player clubs and mixed sets like this.

Examples:  Cobra s3 pro, Cobra amped cell pro etc. - I've heard of some people going Callaway Apex, and Apex pro combo...

Does anyone play mixed sets/progressive/flow sets and what are the pros and cons?  I love the idea, but not sure I've seen the right mix yet.

[David L Yskes]

I have the Titleist 735cms, and love them...  it gives what i like to call the best of both worlds..

the 3 thu 7 irons are cb, and 8 - pw is mb...

the only thing that i wish was different is to have the 6 and 7 iron a MB too...

but i find that the 8 thru pw in the mb is actually very easy to hit...

i've seen some of the newer combo sets, where its only 3 or 4 in a cb or 3 thru 5 in a cb and everything else is mb or blade...

but i do feel the combo sets are becoming a lot more poplular

[JP golf]

I have the Titleist 735cms, and love them...  it gives what i like to call the best of both worlds..

the 3 thu 7 irons are cb, and 8 - pw is mb...

I think that's what I'm looking for.  My thing is I want to be able to flight the ball lower and have better control over my trajectory.  I'm not worried about working the ball so much left to right.  Forgiveness in everything 6 and lower and maybe the 7-PW I want more control over height and be able to knock it down a little easier.

[trickyputt]

I like the idea of progressives myself. I suspect the very reason irons are offered in mb, mc, and cb in players designs is so that one may chose at will for a completely custom group of irons. Distance variations can occur, but to me seem less worrisome than a loss of workability in a cb head.

[JP golf]

I'm looking at a couple different options for new clubs...

Ping s55

Titleist CB 714 or 712

AP 2

I've looked at the Cobra amp cell pro and Callaway apex pro... but I'm not sure...

[trickyputt]

I know its not normally done, but are there any decent FORGED cbs out there?

[Ernest Jones]

I know its not normally done, but are there any decent FORGED cbs out there?

Yes. There are tons. Mizuno and Titleist have many forged CB models. As does MacGregor and likely lots of other OEMS. Lots of forged CB component heads out there as well.

[trickyputt]

These are the mc style or do they have that full lip on the rear more like a gi?

[Ernest Jones]

These are the mc style or do they have that full lip on the rear more like a gi?

Just google and image search Titleist CB, you'll see tons of different models. Same with mizzy. Lots of Tour pros play CB and "forged" doesn't mean shit anyway. The only legitimate reason I can see for wanting forged is so that you can easily tweak loft and lie. The other side of that coin is that the loft and lie will get out of whack every 100 rounds or so.

[trickyputt]

Yeah well you guessed my point. It means a lot to me to have the handle in the same place when I swing right now. I also understand the makers of clubs trying to please people, but I dont do as well with some clubs that are 1/2 degree or less lie apart as I prefer a certain smoothness in my lies from putter through driver. And thats what really hurts, them tucking a club up under us where when we reach out to swing properly the face is pointing left. I can have my custom shaft lengths/lies well spaced if the friggin heads will bend a bit.

[JP golf]

I know its not normally done, but are there any decent FORGED cbs out there?

Forged are preferred for their feel.... @Ernest Jones pretty much nailed it.   There are plenty of forged CB's...  Many of the main manufacturers offer this style iron now days.  I actually like the Ping s55 right now, but they are cast and not forged (they looked like forged players clubs though)...

The idea behind forged clubs is that they provide more consistent yardages because of the tolerances.  They provide more feel, and generally are aimed at lower handicap golfers looking for workability...  That doesn't mean they don't have any forgiveness though.

[Ernest Jones]

Forged are preferred for their feel.... @Ernest Jones pretty much nailed it.   There are plenty of forged CB's...  Many of the main manufacturers offer this style iron now days.  I actually like the Ping s55 right now, but they are cast and not forged (they looked like forged players clubs though)... The idea behind forged clubs is that they provide more consistent yardages because of the tolerances.  They provide more feel, and generally are aimed at lower handicap golfers looking for workability...  That doesn't mean they don't have any forgiveness though.

That's all myth really, even the feel part. The tighter dispersions are due to the design of the club head, not the process used to shape the metal. As far as feel, it has a lot more to do with how your ears perceive impact than it does your hands. Pretty sure there's a master "forged vs cast" thread here somewhere that demolishes pretty much all of the forge mystique. Or I can page @Shorty to come yell at you. Lol. :-P All in good fun, not trying to troll or flame, just sharing some good info. :beer:

[JP golf]

That's all myth really, even the feel part. The tighter dispersions are due to the design of the club head, not the process used to shape the metal. As far as feel, it has a lot more to do with how your ears perceive impact than it does your hands. Pretty sure there's a master "forged vs cast" thread here somewhere that demolishes pretty much all of the forge mystique. Or I can page @Shorty to come yell at you. Lol.

All in good fun, not trying to troll or flame, just sharing some good info.

I can 100% believe that it's myth.  Especially the part with the ears and the sounds.  Mizuno actually had a video out some years back talking about there forging process and how it helps with distance control based off the impurities in the metals used to make the irons and how there are less impurities with their forging process compared to cast clubs...  of course... I understand a lot of that can be marketing...   I actually will go look for that thread... I'm always interested in learning more or even hearing different opinions (might not always agree, but I'm pretty open minded)

[trickyputt]

Dude....I have broken at least 5 cast heads bending them. Sure there are some feel issues in irons, but I dont care for most of those discussions because the only feel i like is a good shot. I have learned to get used to clubs. I am hitting progressive forged heads now. The softer feel comes from a different cushy head. I will put it this way. The best feel in a car suspension is not what you would want in a precise, performance suspension. I actually dont like the way my blades feel. They are tiny and precise. Their function describes their shape. Tiny to cut earth. Dense to mass metal behind the ball, and direct that mass in a fine path to influence shot shapes. My dream club is a GI head that has a tight dispersion. Something I would like to explore but havent found yet. I confess to being a searcher.

[saevel25]

I can 100% believe that it's myth.  Especially the part with the ears and the sounds.  Mizuno actually had a video out some years back talking about there forging process and how it helps with distance control based off the impurities in the metals used to make the irons and how there are less impurities with their forging process compared to cast clubs...  of course... I understand a lot of that can be marketing...   I actually will go look for that thread... I'm always interested in learning more or even hearing different opinions (might not always agree, but I'm pretty open minded)

I don't think the impurities matter much when it comes to distance control. I do think a more focused feel from a smaller sweet spot can help a person find it more often. I believe someone quoted a study once that showed, when a player hit the sweet spot on a better player iron, the dispersion was tighter than a game improvement iron. I believe the reasoning was that the sweet spot is larger on a game improvement iron, but there is still a difference between the exact sweet spot and the outer edges of the sweet spot zone. Yet they feel very similar. So when someone says they hit the sweet spot, they still might be a fraction off and that can cause the ball to end up farther away from target. When you have a tighter sweet spot and you can hit that mark, you will get more predictable results.

Majority of feel comes from sound. That is why Mizuno does their grain forged process. It is produce the sound characteristic they want. Titliest also has said the same thing about feel and how it is primarily sound.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="JP golf" url="/t/76918/progressive-sets-or-flow-sets-with-irons#post_1051417"]   I can 100% believe that it's myth.  Especially the part with the ears and the sounds.  Mizuno actually had a video out some years back talking about there forging process and how it helps with distance control based off the impurities in the metals used to make the irons and how there are less impurities with their forging process compared to cast clubs...  of course... I understand a lot of that can be marketing...   I actually will go look for that thread... I'm always interested in learning more or even hearing different opinions (might not always agree, but I'm pretty open minded)  :beer: [/QUOTE] I don't think the impurities matter much when it comes to distance control. I do think a more focused feel from a smaller sweet spot can help a person find it more often. I believe someone quoted a study once that showed, when a player hit the sweet spot on a better player iron, the dispersion was tighter than a game improvement iron. I believe the reasoning was that the sweet spot is larger on a game improvement iron, but there is still a difference between the exact sweet spot and the outer edges of the sweet spot zone. Yet they feel very similar. So when someone says they hit the sweet spot, they still might be a fraction off and that can cause the ball to end up farther away from target. When you have a tighter sweet spot and you can hit that mark, you will get more predictable results.  Majority of feel comes from sound. That is why Mizuno does their grain forged process. It is produce the sound characteristic they want. Titliest also has said the same thing about feel and how it is primarily sound.

I agree. Sound is vibration anyway. I have looked up the metals used in irons and kept finding common metal favored by industry for use in forming process like stamping. I even found one that was named as the metal in the head, I believe it was a putter, and it sourced back to the metal used in the buzz lightyear ship in the movie Toy Story.

[JP golf]

I don't think the impurities matter much when it comes to distance control. I do think a more focused feel from a smaller sweet spot can help a person find it more often. I believe someone quoted a study once that showed, when a player hit the sweet spot on a better player iron, the dispersion was tighter than a game improvement iron. I believe the reasoning was that the sweet spot is larger on a game improvement iron, but there is still a difference between the exact sweet spot and the outer edges of the sweet spot zone. Yet they feel very similar. So when someone says they hit the sweet spot, they still might be a fraction off and that can cause the ball to end up farther away from target. When you have a tighter sweet spot and you can hit that mark, you will get more predictable results.

Majority of feel comes from sound. That is why Mizuno does their grain forged process. It is produce the sound characteristic they want. Titliest also has said the same thing about feel and how it is primarily sound.

That makes a lot of sense.  On the impurities side- that was just what the Mizuno guy was saying, he was talking about air bubbles in casting etc. that you wouldn't get with the forging process.  He did go on to talk about the difference in a one piece forging and some of the other forging processes that can really be quit different even though they say "forged".

Regarding sweet spot and feel:  I was surprised on my current clubs the wear pattern that developed on my clubface and my inability to tell that I was really hitting the ball in that location (toward the toe).  My current clubs don't have the feedback that I want.  I have predictable results but didn't realize just how far off I've been with this set.  I hate the muted feel...  They have forgiveness but I have to miss pretty bad to tell when I'm off... Gift and a curse I guess... I would highly recommend my set for mid to high handicappers but at this point in my game, I need to go back to something that gives me more feel and the ability to flight the ball...