Like a Girl

[newtogolf]

Perhaps that's because we were all raised with some kind of male dominance in our cultural backgrounds, so we tend to value more "masculine" traits and achievements? Even now, women are trying to prove their equality with men by exhibiting traits that men hold in high esteem and becoming successful in things men typically do.

In contrast, my wife is a stay at home mother (who is better educated than me, BTW). She is far more nurturing than I am and much more capable of raising our kids than I could ever dream to be. Why would I be "better," just because my skills are more marketable? I'd say she is better at her primary role (raising the kids) than I am at mine (making money). Therefore, I would argue that she is superior to myself.

Yea, I'm taller, stronger, faster, better at sports, etc., but what do those traits really mean to me?

I was going to avoid the thread, not because I disagree with any of it, but because I think it will take time for people to adjust to our new way of thinking.  I'm 49, so as a child the male / female roles were pretty well defined.  Men went to work, women had kids and took care of the family.

We're now at a point where we encourage our daughters to do anything a man can, we're more tolerant of boys that prefer to play with dolls instead of trucks but there's still a long way to go.

What concerns me is that in this attempt to blur all the lines in the name of equality we don't lose sight of the fact that there are differences.  I still expect my daughters boyfriend to treat her with respect and as a lady, not as he would his buddies.

[Moxie Dawn]

What concerns me is that in this attempt to blur all the lines in the name of equality we don't lose sight of the fact that there are differences.  I still expect my daughters boyfriend to treat her with respect and as a lady, not as he would his buddies.

That's always the trouble, isn't it? There is something in us that thinks if we want to change some things, everything has to go. I don't think that's the case. Above your post, I outlined many of the "guy" things my parents taught me to do by myself and for myself. What wasn't on the list? I've never changed my own tire. Not once have I had a flat that a man didn't stop to change it for me. I always assure them that I can do it, but when they say no, I stand aside and let them be the gentleman/hero they are.

[Lihu]

I'll start off with my feeling that it's unfair for girls to be excluded from certain things because of their gender.

I will also say that the Victorian (named after Queen Victoria) era had many great women writers, poets, composers, artists and scientists like Madame Curie to name a few. For someone to accept that women were not as worldly as men of the time is avoiding the truth. Facts are hard to deny, and it's up to everyone to make sure they understand history before making any sweeping statements.

If someone is skilled at something, they should be allowed to explore that skill regardless of gender.

I do agree with the statements that both genders do have different roles, in general. This should not stop individuals from pursuing things that make them successful.

That's always the trouble, isn't it? There is something in us that thinks if we want to change some things, everything has to go. I don't think that's the case. Above your post, I outlined many of the "guy" things my parents taught me to do by myself and for myself. What wasn't on the list? I've never changed my own tire. Not once have I had a flat that a man didn't stop to change it for me. I always assure them that I can do it, but when they say no, I stand aside and let them be the gentleman/hero they are.

Agreed, that if someone is doing something just to be rebellious, it does not make for a very happy life in general. There are always exceptions, and very successful ones.

I might even be one of those volunteering to change your tire.

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I know I am/was guilty of this type of thinking.  I also have 3 beautiful daughters that I love more than just about anything.

Seriously?

What do you prefer? :-)

I'll bite...  (thanks for the smiley BTW)

I also have 3 fine sons and a beautiful wife.  Can't say I love the daughters more than them can I......

[iacas]

This list appeared in the paper today  - "20 words we only use to describe women": It's worth thinking about.

Abrasive

Ambitious

Bossy

Emotional

Feisty

Headstrong

Hysterical

Pushy

Whingeing

Maybe it's Australia or whatever, but those words are used to describe men fairly frequently here as well.

Heck, I'm abrasive, ambitious, bossy, headstrong, hysterical (funny/hilarious) at times, and pushy. :D

I've seen Ian Poulter and other Brits tell guys to stop "whinging."

Bolshie

That one I don't know what it is. :)

[RJH999]

I've automatically replaced "throws like a girl" with "throws like Christian Ponder". It comes naturally for me.

[Lihu]

That one I don't know what it is. :)

Bolshie: (of a person or attitude) deliberately combative or uncooperative.

"police men with bolshie attitudes"

[Shorty]

I've seen Ian Poulter and other Brits tell guys to stop "whinging."

That one I don't know what it is. :)

That's a funny one because Australians call Brits "Whingeing Poms".

Bolshie as in Bolshevik (not like admins )

The line is basically that if a woman is ambitious it's a negative. Weird, I know.

[mchepp]

This is a very good thread. Certainly I have used the phrase throw like a girl. I have not yet had the chance to use it with my daughter and now I will know not too.

I can remember a few years ago (10 or so) there was a revolt in my town about whether or not it was polite to hold a door open for a women. That it somehow meant that she couldn't hold the door open herself. Luckily all this died down and people came to their senses to realize that chivalry did not have to die in order for women to be treated equally.

[joekelly]

If i'm not mistaken, the only word on Shorty's list that truly belongs to females only  is  hysterical.  See word origin below, from online dictionary.

Word Origin and History for hysterical

adj.

1610s, from Latin hystericus "of the womb," fromGreek hysterikos "of the  womb, suffering in the womb," from hystera "womb" (see uterus ).Originally defined as a neurotic condition peculiar to women and thought to be caused by a dysfunction of the uterus. Meaning "very funny"(by 1939) is from the notion of uncontrollable fits of laughter. Related: Hysterically .

[Moxie Dawn]

This is a very good thread. Certainly I have used the phrase throw like a girl. I have not yet had the chance to use it with my daughter and now I will know not too.

I can remember a few years ago (10 or so) there was a revolt in my town about whether or not it was polite to hold a door open for a women. That it somehow meant that she couldn't hold the door open herself. Luckily all this died down and people came to their senses to realize that chivalry did not have to die in order for women to be treated equally.

This whole door-holding question comes up now and again, and I don't get it. I've never been insulted in any way if a man holds the door for me. But that might be because I also return that courtesy to others, for example, a mother with children in tow, and especially my elders, male or female. I also say "sir" and "ma'am" to virtually everyone, regardless of their age. All this is called having good manners and treating people with kindness. It doesn't insinuate helplessness or anything else. People need to accept an act in the spirit in which it is offered.

Courtesy is never an insult. Being patronized is, and I think some people don't know the difference.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchepp

This is a very good thread. Certainly I have used the phrase throw like a girl. I have not yet had the chance to use it with my daughter and now I will know not too.

I can remember a few years ago (10 or so) there was a revolt in my town about whether or not it was polite to hold a door open for a women. That it somehow meant that she couldn't hold the door open herself. Luckily all this died down and people came to their senses to realize that chivalry did not have to die in order for women to be treated equally.

This whole door-holding question comes up now and again, and I don't get it. I've never been insulted in any way if a man holds the door for me. But that might be because I also return that courtesy to others, for example, a mother with children in tow, and especially my elders, male or female. I also say "sir" and "ma'am" to virtually everyone, regardless of their age. All this is called having good manners and treating people with kindness. It doesn't insinuate helplessness or anything else. People need to accept an act in the spirit in which it is offered.

Courtesy is never an insult. Being patronized is, and I think some people don't know the difference.

I hold the door for anyone behind me.

My wife quit her job as a chemical engineer in 1987 because her Naval Academy grad boss didn't think women should be engineers. Her workmate, Rhoda, also quit.  Six months later they fired the Navy guy because he was a) incompetent, B) caused his two best engineers to quit.  Doesn't say much for an Academy education does it.  My wife is brilliant and went on to Law School.

History is littered with examples of men underestimating, under-appreciating and under-crediting women for their intelligence, insight and accomplishments.  Even those who govern us fall squarely into this category. It is changing slowly, but it is changing.  Just think how much it has changed in the last 100 years.  When I went to engineering school in 1978, it was only six years from when the first woman was admitted to my school.  My wife was one of 66 women in our class (1/6th).  Now WPI is up to ~35%.  That is in just one generation.  It may not get to 50% by the next generation, but it is closing in.

I will also add that I coached a company women's softball team back in 1983 with a friend of mine.  They asked us to coach.  Some of the women had never been taught to throw correctly.  We went back to basics with the beginners and they picked it up pretty fast.  The experienced players were excellent players.  One we asked to play on our other company team as our shortstop.  She was a phenom.

[Moxie Dawn]

I'm glad we're all progressives here, except perhaps Abu. :)

I think one of our failings in understanding each other as men and women and as human beings in this modern era is that most of us do believe in equality and respect, but we're challenged by the fact that men and women, generally speaking, are different. And it isn't just cultural, it's biological. This whole discussion reminded me of a brain study I read about last year. Read this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently

There are plenty of other articles on the study out there, which you can google at your leisure. What's interesting to me, in relation to the whole idea of "throwing like a girl," is the findings about the cerebellum, where physical precision and coordination is established. Stronger in men. Further, that the hemispheres in a man's brain operate almost independelty, while the hemespheres in a woman's brain are connected by an elaborate web of neural pathways. Pros and cons to each. Men are greater at focus. Women are greater at multi-tasking.

My theory: I think this goes way back into evolutionary biology. Men were the hunters, and you better damn well focus or what you want to eat will eat you. Meantime, women are gathering, caring for children, keeping a hearth, etc. Multi-tasking. And culturally speaking, we have existed with those gender roles since we've been on the planet.

I'm just glad we're getting to the point that we can see these differences as strengths rather than weaknesses, and appreciate what each brings to the table.

[saevel25]

I'm glad we're all progressives here, except perhaps Abu. :)

Them are fighting words! I would never classify myself as a progressive.

---

Softball pitcher versus MLB prospect. He can hit a 95 mph fastball, but can hardly touch a softball.

[MS256]

I'm glad we're all progressives here,

Count me out.

I give everybody an equal shot but I don't owe anybody anything for any supposed past offenses.

[Lihu]

I'm just glad we're getting to the point that we can see these differences as strengths rather than weaknesses, and appreciate what each brings to the table.

+1 on this.

I have both a son and daughter, and hope that they live a fairer world than my parents.

[ditchparrot19]

Not all girls "throw like a girl." My daughter throws like Satchel Paige at age 5.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v602/ringneck19/IMG_1046_zps151ee6ce.mp4

[boogielicious]

Not all girls "throw like a girl." My daughter throws like Satchel Paige at age 5.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v602/ringneck19/IMG_1046_zps151ee6ce.mp4

Sweet!

Anyone can be taught to throw correctly.  Good job.