Fitting Question

[TheFabs]

Got fitted for S55's back in May. Been playing them since June.  Just figuring out in last few days that they aren't the standard length they were supposed to be but approx 1" longer.  (yeah I know I should have picked up on this sooner, that's on me)

The fitter blames it on factory, I have the fitting slip and is does list length as standard.  Regardless the fitter is going to cut them down the 1" for me and regrip at no cost.  My question is will this shortening to standard effect the lie angle?    The fitter tells me it will not however at this point I want to be sure and not just have the fitter get me in and out.

Any help, advice, opions appreciated.

[mailman]

So this is a total newby question but why not just grip your bats an inch further down the shaft instead of lopping bits of them? Surely that's a safer bet because once a bits cut off that's it? Regards Mailman

[David in FL]

Got fitted for S55's back in May. Been playing them since June.  Just figuring out in last few days that they aren't the standard length they were supposed to be but approx 1" longer.  (yeah I know I should have picked up on this sooner, that's on me)  The fitter blames it on factory, I have the fitting slip and is does list length as standard.  Regardless the fitter is going to cut them down the 1" for me and regrip at no cost.  My question is will this shortening to standard effect the lie angle?    The fitter tells me it will not however at this point I want to be sure and not just have the fitter get me in and out. Any help, advice, opions appreciated.

Calling @Mr. Desmond and @WUTiger ......

[Golfingdad]

Got fitted for S55's back in May. Been playing them since June.  Just figuring out in last few days that they aren't the standard length they were supposed to be but approx 1" longer.  (yeah I know I should have picked up on this sooner, that's on me)

The fitter blames it on factory, I have the fitting slip and is does list length as standard.  Regardless the fitter is going to cut them down the 1" for me and regrip at no cost.  My question is will this shortening to standard effect the lie angle?    The fitter tells me it will not however at this point I want to be sure and not just have the fitter get me in and out.

Any help, advice, opions appreciated.

No, it won't, but make sure he confirms that the lie angles all match what you were fitted for.  The lie angle is simply the relationship between the sole of the club and the shaft.  (Well, I guess, technically it's the "supplementary" of that)  Doesn't matter how much he cuts off of the shaft, the angles are going to remain the same.  The way it rests on the ground will change if your stance doesn't change, but that's a different issue.

So, let's say that you were fitted for a 6 iron with a 62* lie angle and a 37.25" shaft.  All you have to do is have the fitter confirm that the lie angle is, in fact, 62*.  Once he cuts the 1" off and gets it down to the right length, then you'll be good to go.

[trey3d]

The lie won't change but your setup will. That will change where the lie should be, talking from experience as it did for me.

[TheFabs]

Thanks fellas, I'm perfectly ok with my setup changing...in fact I should have noticed it changed when I started using these irons but shamefully I didn't.  I'm hoping the swing weight isn't a big change now either.   I guess I'll find out in the first fairway tomorrow when I play my next 18..or shortly before at the range before my round.

I appreciate all the feedback.  If anyone wants to chime in on swing weight I'm all ears.

[jmanbooyaa]

Just out of curiosity why not send them back to Ping for the correct specs

[vangator]

Hold the phone. I've built many clubs over the years and changing the length of a club can definitely change how the club lies on the ground. Since your hands will be the same height from the ground, with a shorter club the toe may drag. Imagine if the club were a foot longer, the head would be resting on the hosel. If the club were much shorter, the club would be more on the toe. I for one like the clubs cut to the proper length. I have too many swing thoughts as it is. I don't need to be thinking about choking up too. Also, swing weight comes into play. To check if the club has the proper lie on the ground, put a couple of pieces of masking tape on the bottom of your club (5 iron). In your driveway with street shoes, take your normal swing striking a hitting board. I use a thin piece of luan. I use two pieces of tape so the wood doesn't scratch the iron. If the mark on the tape is in the center of the bottom of the club, you're good. If the mark is on the heel, you're too upright. Towards the toe, you're too flat. If the lie was centered before, shortening the club may cause it to be too upright. You can also tell by your divots. They should be uniform on both the hosel and toe sides of the divot. Also, shortening the club by an inch will reduce the current swing weight by 6 points. That's a lot. For guys, somewhere around D0-D2 is good. I think your fitter screwed the pooch. But they can be made right. He just has to do the extra to get it right for you. Good luck. Let us know how it comes out.

[Club Rat]

So this is a total newby question but why not just grip your bats an inch further down the shaft instead of lopping bits of them? Surely that's a safer bet because once a bits cut off that's it?

Regards

Mailman

@mailman b (grip a club, 1" or 1&1/2") from the grip end, creates very active hands in a swing.

Many individuals who are short in height (less than 5'7" tall) learn to play using that method.

They usually have a compact, smooth swing, and make great contact and have shorter fingers to grip the club on the narrow area of the grip.

But, for taller individuals, longer fingers, need to grip a club around the thick butt end for a proper grip.

Club lengths affect posture at address and hand/arm position.

If clubs are too long, posture can become too upright and hands/arms too close to the body.

Also, it changes other aspects of he swing.

Some individuals can make adjustments without hindering their swing, while others may struggle.

@TheFabs the shafts shouldn't change the "lie angle" or "swing weight" or "shaft flex" significantly enough to hinder the performance of the clubs

.

Club Rat

[WUTiger]

Here's an explanation of the interaction of shaft length change and lie angle. The explanation comes courtesy of Ralph Maltby's 2011 book, The Complete Book of Golf Club Fitting & Performance, p. 226 :

Lie Angle. As a general rule, for the same golfer, the longer a golf club from its standard length, the flatter the lie angle must be; the shorter the club is from its standard length, the more upright the lie angle required. (color text emphasis added). For a rule of thumb, use 1/2° more upright for every 1/2" the club is made shorter, and 1/2° flatter for every 1/2" the club is lengthened. However, and I will keep reiterating this; we need to remember that for almost any height golfer, any length of clubs, whether longer or shorter than standard, can be made to fit properly through an adjustment of lie angles.

So, in the case of the S55 irons, trimming 1" off per iron would call for a lie angle 1° more upright. BUT, the proper sequence would be to trim the shafts by 1", regrip, and then find out what the lie angle is. If the factory didn't change the lie angle to account for the longer shaft, the you might not need to change it.

After trimming of shafts and regripping, use a test with sole tape and lie board to see what the golfer actually needs to get proper lie angle at impact. Do this with each iron.

Also be aware that trimming 1/2" off the shaft will lower the swingweight by about 3 points. (1" trim = - 6 swingweights). Due to this, I would strongly advise you to negotiate a trade-in and replacement of these irons with S55s made to your specs. The irons were made by Ping, so chances are they would be cooperative.

Edit added info on swingweight change. W

[Mr. Desmond]

Send them back to Ping!

Do not have your fitter cut them.

I'm more concerned about the balance of the club - swing weight - after the cutting than the lie angle, although I would also check lie angle.

One inch will also affect flex.

I know that Ping measures clubs differently than everyone else.

Seriously -- get on the phone with Ping. Do not have your fitter start cutting them up. I can see your warranty going downhill. Anyone else screws with those clubs and Ping voids your warranty.

Send the build slip to Ping with your clubs and see what they say.

[mailman]

Cheers club rat. You learn something new every day hey :) Regards Mailman

[TheFabs]

Thanks guys.  I'm going to play with them today they have already been cut.   If things don't go well I'll be calling the fitter and subsequently calling Ping if the fitter doesn't fix what is wrong.

Reason I haven't sent them back to Ping is that I have a 4 ball this weekend and a regional qualifier on Tuesday.  So I would rather give these a go instead of abandoning a partner and doing a WD on Tuesday.  I'll let you all know how today and the upcoming days play out.  I truly appreciate the help and insight.  As much as I understand golf swing mechanics I equally don't understand the science of club fitting.

[TheFabs]

hit a bucket little while ago...didn't have as many mishits, didn't lose distance and its easier to work the ball. Divots were looking better as well.  I'll wait until I have 18 under my belt to say anymore

[Club Rat]

As much as I understand golf swing mechanics I equally don't understand the science of club fitting.

@TheFabs seeing you are a low handicap player, you know how clubs should feel.

(some are all right and some don't feel right)

To take club fitting to a top level, there are many aspects which can benefit a person.

It's still a personal preference of what feels and works for you.

Club fitting done at a higher level than manufactures suggestions, detail more than lie, flex, length, grips.

It's really very cool technology and understanding how each club works and preforms for various golfers.

In the end, it is still you swinging the clubs to make he shots which you are capable of making.

Good luck with your events and play well.

Club Rat

[TheFabs]

Thank you again to all. My hcp is the highest its been in five years mainly because I was missing more greens than prior years.   Shot 73 today with 35 putts.  Didnt miss a lot of greens, my yardages didnt change and the irons actually felt more solid and compressed the ball much better than they had the prior months that I had them.   Maybe I should be worried about the swing weights and lie of my putter...because clearly that isnt working the way it should.  Or its the guy holding the putter.

All joking aside thank you for all your insight and knowledge, like I said before I don't know as much as I should about club fitting and the technology behind it, I have always trusted the fit and swung freely.  This was educational for me.