Jump to content
IGNORED

Any good rules of thumb for putting?


Moppy
Note: This thread is 3485 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I've mentioned this before but I try to keep my backswing distance and the distance I swing through the ball about the same.  It seems to keep me from crushing the ball past the hole or leaving it extremely short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I got one from a friend, who said he read it in Lefty's book, that if there is a ridge in the line, the putt will break another couple of inches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Might as well link to this: [CONTENTEMBED=/t/77086/3-keys-to-better-putting layout=block][/CONTENTEMBED]

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1. Read the break and distance

2. Align stance and putter face to fall line with eyes over ball

3. Swing through along line using shoulders pivoting on sternum notch

Simple, huh? :-\

Craig

:wilsonstaff: - FG Tour F5
:wilsonstaff: - Fybrid 3W 15*, FY 19.5*, 4H 24*
:wilsonstaff: - FG 51 Tour Blade 4-9
:wilson: - Harmonized 50, 55, 60
Old Master - TZ Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I have been trying to work it out myself, working on accuracy on a putting mat, and working on putting on a practice green near my house.

I have come up with a couple.

I always walk the putt down to the hole and do a half circle from the high side, trying to feel the slope with my feet. I figure out the "fall line" but I don't know how to figure it in.

I always crouch and look for any ridges etc behind the ball.

I try to keep my lower body still.

I try to keep my wrists firm on impact. (this is big for me.)

I figure that break is a function of slope and distance, so the longer the putt, the bigger the break.

I dont have any good way to translate how a slope on the green feels and looks into an estimate of the break.

Aimpoint is out of the question. There are none anywhere close to me, and I would think I would need to be more skilled in the first place to benefit.

One thing in your list strikes me as likely to induce extra error "...the longer the putt, the bigger the break."

As I understand it the impact from gravity that torques the ball in the direction of the downslope is greater the slower the ball is moving. Longer putts have to be hit harder to reach the hole, so they are naturally travelling faster than a shorter putt. This is why pros prefer uphill putts...hitting it harder to get it to the hole on an upslope means the putt takes less break over its length. Downhill putts are hit softer and travel slower to allow for the constant pull of gravity so they break more.

A long putt because it is travelling faster will take less break in the first 2/3 of its travel than a shorter putt across the same slope. Toward the last 1/3 of the putt (the 'decay phase') the ball will tend to take it's maximum break as it slows down. So a shorter putt may actually have the same break as a longer one, even less break than a shorter one on the same line if it is uphill.

Take with appropriate grain of salt as I'm still a dub in skill, but I've done a lot of research as I've built my swing so I think my info is good.

  • Upvote 1

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


One thing in your list strikes me as likely to induce extra error "...the longer the putt, the bigger the break." As I understand it the impact from gravity that torques the ball in the direction of the downslope is greater the slower the ball is moving. Longer putts have to be hit harder to reach the hole, so they are naturally travelling faster than a shorter putt. This is why pros prefer uphill putts...hitting it harder to get it to the hole on an upslope means the putt takes less break over its length. Downhill putts are hit softer and travel slower to allow for the constant pull of gravity so they break more. A long putt because it is travelling faster will take less break in the first 2/3 of its travel than a shorter putt across the same slope. Toward the last 1/3 of the putt (the 'decay phase') the ball will tend to take it's maximum break as it slows down. So a shorter putt may actually have the same break as a longer one, even less break than a shorter one on the same line if it is uphill. ​Take with appropriate grain of salt as I'm still a dub in skill, but I've done a lot of research as I've built my swing so I think my info is good.

Sort of. A better way to think of it is TIME. The more time the ball has to travel, the more time it has to break. So a down hill putt will break more than an uphill putt of the same length because it has more time to break. Likewise if two putts are hit on the same slope whichever one takes longer to get to the hole will break more regardless of speed. Typically that would be the longer putt but you could manipulate that by hitting the longer putt hard enough that it takes less TIME than the shorter putt. Of course, it won't go in if you do that though. ;-) Generally speaking and in real world application, you're fine to think of it in terms of speed but it's really a question of time.

  • Upvote 1

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
As I understand it the impact from gravity that torques the ball in the direction of the downslope is greater the slower the ball is moving. Longer putts have to be hit harder to reach the hole, so they are naturally travelling faster than a shorter putt. This is why pros prefer uphill putts...hitting it harder to get it to the hole on an upslope means the putt takes less break over its length. Downhill putts are hit softer and travel slower to allow for the constant pull of gravity so they break more.

A long putt because it is travelling faster will take less break in the first 2/3 of its travel than a shorter putt across the same slope. Toward the last 1/3 of the putt (the 'decay phase') the ball will tend to take it's maximum break as it slows down. So a shorter putt may actually have the same break as a longer one, even less break than a shorter one on the same line if it is uphill.

Take with appropriate grain of salt as I'm still a dub in skill, but I've done a lot of research as I've built my swing so I think my info is good.

Jason already said it, but imagine a 10 foot putt and a 19-foot putt on the same line.

The 19-foot putt will break the same amount from ten feet out as the 10-foot putt will… plus the break during the extra nine feet it takes to get there.

Longer putts on the same slope break a lot more. Plus, their angle to the slope changes throughout, so they can often break quite a bit more.

For example, from AimPoint charts, putts on the same line on the same green:

10' - Breaks 11"

20' - Breaks 25"

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

My rule of thumb on say a 15 footer, your stoke should be 1/3 back and 2/3 forward. You want to roll the ball to the cup, not just strike the ball. On a 15 footer there is a chance you'll make it, a greater chance you will 2 putt, but for the dreaded 3 putt, you will have likely left it 4 feet short or 6 feet past and onbviously missed these putts. it is not likely you were 4 feet wide of the hole. Therefore consistency of distance is paramount and the way you control it accurately is rolling the ball to the hole, by using 1/3 back and 2/3 forward, the tendency is to excelerate thru the ball at contact. The putter face contacts the ball under the equator of the ball and finishes contact pushing/rolling the ball, rather than having the ball " rebound" at the instant contact is made. My 2 euros, works for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Therefore consistency of distance is paramount and the way you control it accurately is rolling the ball to the hole, by using 1/3 back and 2/3 forward, the tendency is to excelerate thru the ball at contact. The putter face contacts the ball under the equator of the ball and finishes contact pushing/rolling the ball, rather than having the ball " rebound" at the instant contact is made.

Can you clarify 1/3 back and 2/3 forward? Particularly in light of the "do not accelerate" mention and this thread: ?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Sort of. A better way to think of it is TIME. The more time the ball has to travel, the more time it has to break. So a down hill putt will break more than an uphill putt of the same length because it has more time to break. Likewise if two putts are hit on the same slope whichever one takes longer to get to the hole will break more regardless of speed. Typically that would be the longer putt but you could manipulate that by hitting the longer putt hard enough that it takes less TIME than the shorter putt. Of course, it won't go in if you do that though.

Generally speaking and in real world application, you're fine to think of it in terms of speed but it's really a question of time.

Excellent clarification, thanks!

Before reading Vector Putting I had also thought that longer putts broke a lot more and aimed too high, not realizing that a putt hit harder to reach the hole will give gravity less time to torque it down slope. It was surprising to me the relatively small (compared to my initial assumption) adjustment in break I had to make for a sidehill or downhill breaker versus a putt closer in on the same line. That's why I chimed in.

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Jason already said it, but imagine a 10 foot putt and a 19-foot putt on the same line.

The 19-foot putt will break the same amount from ten feet out as the 10-foot putt will… plus the break during the extra nine feet it takes to get there.

Longer putts on the same slope break a lot more. Plus, their angle to the slope changes throughout, so they can often break quite a bit more.

For example, from AimPoint charts, putts on the same line on the same green:

10' - Breaks 11"

20' - Breaks 25"

Whoops. I'm glad I added a caveat to my original comment. Helpful to better understand what's happening. Thanks. Sorry for the incorrect and potentially unhelpful statement.

I guess where I was coming from was that my perception of break allowed in feel (target line aim angle relative to the cup) felt significantly less high above the hole relative to a closer putt due to the distance. The trajectory flattens somewhat with longer putts so it feels like I am allowing for less break (aiming less away from the hole) than if I was closer in even if it results in a longer break.

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Besides all the help at TST,

I think one is looking for consistency ... if you've found it, great. If not,

I think a neutral setup with your body setup square to your line will offer consistency - square feet, hips, shoulders. Hold putter in front of you and get putter to ball. Is ball behind putter? You've not neutral.

Most people I've seen will try to set up square, but their hips and shoulders will be open. Check them out before your stroke.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

A simple tip:

Last thought before letting the putt go...

Speed

Of course, you've thought about speed when reading the putt, but when you're taking that last look at the hole, think speed, take a breath, let it go.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Can you clarify 1/3 back and 2/3 forward? Particularly in light of the "do not accelerate" mention and this thread: [CONTENTEMBED=/t/74295/putting-do-not-accelerate-through-the-ball layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED] ?

I would be happy to, could you clarify your question first though. Take it back 1/3+\_ and follow thru the putting stoke almost twice as much as your back swing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

I would be happy to, could you clarify your question first though.

Take it back 1/3+\_ and follow thru the putting stoke almost twice as much as your back swing.

Sounds like you might be accelerating through the putt, not something you want to do.

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

I would be happy to, could you clarify your question first though.

Take it back 1/3+\_ and follow thru the putting stoke almost twice as much as your back swing.

I'm not sure what's to clarify. You said the tendency was to accelerate through the putt. Do you think that's a good thing? Did you read the thread to which I linked? I agree with @mvmac - it seems like you accelerate through the putt. That's probably bad (if you actually are).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 3485 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Thanks for the feedback. @StuM, we are a "club without real estate" so no facilities or pro. We have a membership of around 185 players and we only play together as a group at our tournaments, which are held at public access courses. A group of us setup the tournaments, collect the money and dole out the prizes.
    • In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.
    • If it's not broken don't fix it. If you want to add grooves to it just because of looks that's your choice of course. Grooves are cut into putter faces to reduce skid, the roll faced putter is designed to do the same thing. I'm no expert but it seems counter productive to add grooves to the roll face. Maybe you can have it sand-blasted or something to clean up the face. Take a look at Tigers putter, its beat to hell but he still uses it.     
    • I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway? Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play). My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways. Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole. None of us want to damage clubs.
    • Hello, I've been playing a Teardrop td17 F.C. putter for many years and love it. It still putts and feels as good or  better than any of the new putters I've tried and it's in excellent condition except the face has dings in it ever since I bought it used that kind of bother me. I was just wondering if it's possible to have some really shallow horizontal grooves milled into the face on a "roll face" putter. I think I would rather spend some money on it instead of trying to get used to a new putter.  Thanks
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...