Pete's Programme (Single Digit to Tour Player)

[Nosevi]

Mentioned it on a different thread so may as well chat about it here. I spent 4 hours in the swing studio this afternoon working on both a slightly less open club face at the top (ie less of a cup in the left wrist as @layup pointed out) as well as trying to stop the ball going left as a result of closing the club face off a tad. I totally understand what Erik is saying about just not rotating your left forearm into impact as much (am I right that's what you are saying @iacas ? ) but I just don't feel as if I'm committing to the shot when I don't. The best way to describe it. Erik, is I feel like I'm hitting controlled blocks rather than committed shots with a full release. I guess everyone if different though and we'll see what slow motion video shows I'm actually doing rather than what I feel I'm doing - the two are rarely the same.

With my swing these days I hit a draw. If I don't it'll start a few yards right of target and stay there and if I mess it up entirely the draw becomes a hook (which is my destructive shot). One thing it doesn't do is slice or fade in a big way. In fact I have to try pretty hard to get the ball to fade at all but it is something I practice now and then as it's a shot you must have on my home course. I guess this is the result of the fact that I pretty aggressively rotate my left forearm into impact and having spent weeks in the swing studio my swing path is pretty much nailed to be a tad in to out. The snag is that with a slightly more closed club face at the top the tendency to hook or pull-hook the ball left is definitely pronounced and it happens more often.

Rather than go down the route of not feeling like I commit to the shot as much by holding off my release what I was working on today was getting more body rotation through the ball. Whenever I hit a really bad hook on camera, especially with the driver, you can bet that on the playback you can see my body stop and my hands take over and roll over the ball too much hooking it left. What I was doing today was a drill where I do practice swings feeling like I'm just using the rotation of my body and not using my arms at all. All in one motion I'd do one like this, two like this then on the third swing, swing with my arms as well (which for me is a rotation of the forearms into impact. Actually felt like it helped my rhythm quite a bit. The main aim though was to eliminate (or lessen) the hook and it did that pretty convincingly.

I'm not sure if I've eliminated one 'flaw' in the open club face at the top and by ensuring I rotate through the ball I'm eliminating the compensation I was making (ie having to flip at the ball with my hands to close the club face from this open position) but a combo of a more neutral club face at the top and more rotation through the ball to take the hands out of the shot a little seemed to work pretty well today. Early days but seems to be a direction I can go in.

So looking forward to the iphone 6 arriving in a couple of days. It records video at 240 fps rather than the pitiful 30 fps my iphone 4 manages making the blurred images I'm working from now pretty much crystal clear. Got to be a good thing although I may see things in my swing I could live without knowing .......

[Faksakes]

Great post Pete and looking forward to seeing that video as well. It's pretty interesting for a 14 cap to see what someone in your situation works on. Really appreciate the detail you put into your posts and I'm sure that we all get a lot out of it.

[Nosevi]

Great post Pete and looking forward to seeing that video as well. It's pretty interesting for a 14 cap to see what someone in your situation works on. Really appreciate the detail you put into your posts and I'm sure that we all get a lot out of it.

Thanks. Not sure if it'll be that helpful but it might if you're struggling with a ball going left due to a lack of rotation (or at least by what seems to be a lack of rotation). Be interesting to see that in super slow mo and see if the hypothesis of body stopping and hands taking over is right.

As an aside the drill I was doing for irons is actually what I've started to do on the tee with a driver and has definitely helped me hit more fairways.

[Fungolfer]

Hey Pete, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. I am in a similar situation where I have pretty much eliminated my slice but often pull or hook.i think my grip is probably strong. What specific drills you suggest can help cure it to hit it more straight. All the best in achieving your goals.

[Nosevi]

Hey Pete, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. I am in a similar situation where I have pretty much eliminated my slice but often pull or hook.i think my grip is probably strong. What specific drills you suggest can help cure it to hit it more straight. All the best in achieving your goals.

Hi there. While there are obviously more experienced guys on here to help with some ideas I can tell you what worked for me. When I can get in front of a camera I can show you (and iphone 6 arrived today so could show you in ultra high res or super slow mo which is even more impressive than I thought it would be!) but for now hopefully I can explain in text.

First thing to note is that as far as swing path is concerned a pull can have the same swing path as a slice ie out to in through the ball. A slice has the club face open to the swing path, a straight pull has it square to the swing path with the swing path going out to in (say if you don't know what I mean by "out to in") but essentially both are caused by a swing going to the left of the target line (for a right hander). If your hook starts left and goes further left it can still be an out to in swing path. What you may have done is cure the club face being open in your initial slice but not addressed the swing path being out to in.

Easiest way to spot it is to post a video taken down the target line or look at a video and look at the club plane on the down swing vs the backswing. If the club is way steeper on the downswing than the backswing you are basically coming what is termed 'over the top' and the result is a slice with an open club face and a pull with a closed club face. My guess from what you've said is this could be what you see. The fix is relatively simple and something I had to do early on as I was very over the top in my swing but it's best to see if that's the case before I go too much into detail about how I corrected it. Essentially I was going back inside and down outside  and you have to reverse that loop (or neutralise it) but let's see if that's what you're doing first.

Either post a vid or if you're a little coy just look at one yourself and see if the backswing is flat and the downswing steep. If it is (and I'd guess from what you've said it is) let me know and I'll tell you how I corrected it

[Fungolfer]

Okay mate, let me try what you have said by taking the video. I feel my swing is inside out. I will post a video later for your feedback.

[Nosevi]

Okay mate, let me try what you have said by taking the video. I feel my swing is inside out. I will post a video later for your feedback.

Look forward to seeing it. If you ever straight pull the ball the swing path has to be out to in through the ball with the club face square to that swing path, there's no other way to get the ball to go left of the target (for a righty) without any side spin. If you were talking a pull hook above (starts left and goes further left) then that could be an in to out swing path through the ball, just with a closed club face. Let's see what the vid shows

[Nosevi]

Right, been playing with the iphone 6 to get some high speed video of my swing as @iacas asked for. I was obviously in the swing studio and although it'll be better in direct sunlight you can see so much more with this than my old standard speed cam........... too much in fact. In some ways I'm surprised the ball goes as well as it does; I'm doing a bunch of things quite well but there's so much room for improvement and these high speed videos show it. I've included the shot data below each so you can see the result of the shot. Sorry it's a little close in, especially on the face on, I'll be able to get further back outside some time but it gives a pretty good idea and shows some of the things I was wanting to see (such as a slightly scoopy action at the bottom, just a little......)

Both shots with an 8 iron.

Did launch this one a shade higher as you can see from the numbers but I'm guessing a slight cupping of the left wrist at impact is there in the DTL shot as well, just a little less perhaps.

Right, open to the floor. It's not the most complex swing ever but it seems to be working ok and there's not that much that can go wrong. Comments welcome

Edit: if you watch it on Youtube rather than in the forum you can select up to HD

[garybbq]

Thanks for posting that Pete, just curious if you happen to have any video of when you first started?

I would be really interested to see the changes you have made so far as well as when you get further along in the process. it would be interesting to always compare back to your "first" swing.

BTW, thanks for updating this thread, I enjoy reading it. Good Luck.

[Nosevi]

Thanks for posting that Pete, just curious if you happen to have any video of when you first started?

I would be really interested to see the changes you have made so far as well as when you get further along in the process. it would be interesting to always compare back to your "first" swing.

BTW, thanks for updating this thread, I enjoy reading it. Good Luck.

Thanks @garybbq . I lost a lot of my swings as I had them on my phone in V1, I updated the app and it lost the lot. Pretty annoying to be honest. Over time I've downloaded the odd one for one reason or another and this is the earliest I can find - kind of looks like a squid being electrocuted, doesn't it? All I have from the early days is practice swings now I'm afraid but I'm pretty sure my actual swing was even worse. Fair to say I worked hard on lower body stability (and on staying centred...... and on just about everything else). Couldn't give you an exact date but it was obviously before I got my handicap a year ago as this isn't the swing of a 5 handicapper

Just for comparison this is the DTL and FO swing from today in full speed:

Stumbled on something else at the same time. When I started I wasn't in the position financially that I am now. Long story and maybe when I know you guys better I'll tell you it, but I didn't have a swing studio or Gucci launch monitor or even the building it's in. I stumbled on a video of me practising late at night in 'Swing Studio Mk1'. I was just as determined to get better at golf but with a full time job in the military which included 2 1/2 hours driving each day, young kids etc my practice time was often like this - late at night in a tiny garage with just the boiler for company.

Fast forward a couple of years or so, and we're here: I have the facilities and finances to have a crack at this, you can just see the edge of the Ferrari in her bubble on the left and I'm off out for a practice round tomorrow with a pretty blond tour pro. You never quite know how things are going to turn out, do you?

[garybbq]

Thanks, yah quite the change so far I can defiantly see what you mean about your lower body. Nice work.

[Faksakes]

Thanks. Not sure if it'll be that helpful but it might if you're struggling with a ball going left due to a lack of rotation (or at least by what seems to be a lack of rotation). Be interesting to see that in super slow mo and see if the hypothesis of body stopping and hands taking over is right.

As an aside the drill I was doing for irons is actually what I've started to do on the tee with a driver and has definitely helped me hit more fairways.

Yeah absolutely this is my miss so I'm going to experiment with it. Cheers!

[Nosevi]

Learned (or rather re-learned) an important lesson today - never try to change your swing on the course. My playing partner bailed (we're practising together all day tomorrow instead) so after a bit of short game practice I hit the course to try and play with a slightly less open club face at the top due to a slightly flatter left wrist. Was pretty concious of not pulling it left due to the new position.

For the first few holes I really struggled more than usual. I hit half the fairways, hit a few greens, scrambled for most of the missed ones, but at the end of the day I was struggling. Coming into the last 5 holes I just stopped trying to hit it differently and shot 5 regulation pars from the middle of the fairway with 3 pretty good looks at birdie. Thing was my ball flight was lower than it has been previously which I think is more than likely the result of getting a slightly flatter left wrist ......... but I wasn't trying to do it and I think that was key to me hitting better shots.

It's one of those things I think we all know - trying to work on your swing on the course is generally a bad move - but it's nice to get confirmation once in a while even if that's in the form of a practice round that's pretty hard going until you twig that you just need to hit the ball and stop thinking about mechanics on the course.

[iacas]

I'm planning to make a short video, but these aren't positions I love by any stretch…

[Phil McGleno]

I'm planning to make a short video, but these aren't positions I love by any stretch…

That stuff is scratch golf ceiling stuff right there. This is not good.-I know you feel it probably is Peter but it has gotten you to where you are now and probably will not take you much farther. Big changes needed.

[mvmac]

Nice practice set-up you got there @Nosevi .

@iacas is going to have some great stuff for you to work on. If you practice what he says properly you'll be able to change those impact alignments. Good luck!

[Nosevi]

I'm planning to make a short video, but these aren't positions I love by any stretch…

Cheers Erik. Look forward to seeing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm planning to make a short video, but these aren't positions I love by any stretch…

That stuff is scratch golf ceiling stuff right there. This is not good.-I know you feel it probably is Peter but it has gotten you to where you are now and probably will not take you much farther.

Big changes needed.

Hi @Phil McGleno . Don't worry, as far as I'm concerned I'm at the beginning of this journey, no where near the end of it, and that goes for the swing as well as the any other part of the game. I get the ball to go more or less where I want 'despite' quite a few things in my swing rather than because of them. I square the club face pretty much all the time through having a little talent rather than a good swing, and I get it to go a fairly long way (carry a shade over 150 yards with an 8 iron and about 270-280 yards carry with a driver these days) due to strength rather than technique. I look forward to seeing where I can go with both.

Nice practice set-up you got there @Nosevi.

@iacas is going to have some great stuff for you to work on. If you practice what he says properly you'll be able to change those impact alignments. Good luck!

Thanks @mvmac . I'm very much looking forward to seeing the directions Erik would like to see me go in. I sort of know where I want to end up with my swing it's the how to get there that I'm looking forward to working on. One thing I can say is I've got time, I'll give whatever Erik gives me my best shot and I'm not afraid of a bit of hard graft.

I do think I'll have to make the decision right here and now that the rest of this summer and through the winter is about getting my swing in the right place rather than scoring well on the course - to fix these things properly I'm going to have to take a major step back before going forwards - do you think that's fair to say? With the new camera at home at least I can see what I'm actually doing rather than what I think I'm doing.

For what it's worth, Brian (Tour pro I practice with) was practically kicking my right foot forwards in the sim the other day, I naturally set up closed and always have. He says it's effecting all sorts of things including properly clearing my hips through impact so I think I know where Erik is going with that photo.

I have a fairly good idea where I need to go, that was one reason I practice with the guys I practice with and looking at that earlier swing above I think it's fair to say I've already come forward quite a bit, long way to go though. Sure he won't mind but this is Brian's swing at similar times in the swing to the shots Erik has pulled - I know the end goal, look forward to the challenge of getting there

[b101]

Looking forward to seeing how things progress - Erik, Mike and the rest of the evolvr team are great so I'm sure it can only benefit you in the long term. Incidentally, your immediately positive reaction to this shows just how far away from (and better than) the Dan Plan you are! It certainly makes it much more interesting and useful for us to follow your progress