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2015 NFL Football Thread


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18 hours ago, boogielicious said:

It was a different game back then. Put Lynn Swann on Pitt today and he would have Antonio Brown numbers. He was an excellent receiver.

That's a fair point but I could say that if Calvin Johnson was on those Steelers teams he would've been equally as awesome.  But If not for the Superbowl wins, does Lynn Swann make the HOF?  He's 222nd in receiving yards, behind such luminaries as Jerry Smith, Chris Burford and Ray Renfro (221, 220 & 219 respectively).  And he's not even in the top 250 for total receptions, Rob Gronkowski is #250.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HOF, he was awesome in Superbwol X (which is still  #1 for most receiving yards in the Superbowl), and has 4 rings, but someone could make the argument that he does't belong based on his individual stats.  There are plenty of people with multiple rings, Cliff Branch has 3 for one, who has far better stats than Swann and will probably not get in the HOF.  

Branch finished his 14 NFL seasons with 501 receptions for 8,685 yards and 67 touchdowns.  When Branch retired he led the NFL in post season receptions (73) and yards (1289) for an average of 17.7 yards per catch, Scoring 5 TD's.  He also had a year in 1976 where he had 46 receptions for 1,111 yds, a 24.2 Avg and 12 TD's.

Calvin has over 11,000 yards and plays on a horrible team.  I don't think Calvin's a HOF'er but Swann should tread lightly when calling out other WR's for the HOF.

 

 

-Jerry

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20 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

 

That's a fair point but I could say that if Calvin Johnson was on those Steelers teams he would've been equally as awesome.  But If not for the Superbowl wins, does Lynn Swann make the HOF?  He's 222nd in receiving yards, behind such luminaries as Jerry Smith, Chris Burford and Ray Renfro (221, 220 & 219 respectively).  And he's not even in the top 250 for total receptions, Rob Gronkowski is #250.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HOF, he was awesome in Superbwol X (which is still  #1 for most receiving yards in the Superbowl), and has 4 rings, but someone could make the argument that he does't belong based on his individual stats.  There are plenty of people with multiple rings, Cliff Branch has 3 for one, who has far better stats than Swann and will probably not get in the HOF. 

Branch finished his 14 NFL seasons with 501 receptions for 8,685 yards and 67 touchdowns.  When Branch retired he led the NFL in post season receptions (73) and yards (1289) for an average of 17.7 yards per catch, Scoring 5 TD's.  He also had a year in 1976 where he had 46 receptions for 1,111 yds, a 24.2 Avg and 12 TD's.

Calvin has over 11,000 yards and plays on a horrible team.  I don't think Calvin's a HOF'er but Swann should tread lightly when calling out other WR's for the HOF.

 

 

You can't look at his numbers based on the stats of today.  Where was he ranked in 2001 when he was inducted into the HOF?

Joe Paradiso

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39 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You can't look at his numbers based on the stats of today.  Where was he ranked in 2001 when he was inducted into the HOF?

Doesn't make it into the top 150 on receiving yards. Even If you take out every receiver in the list that started their career after Swann retired, he still only makes it into the top 85.

78 Mac Speedie 5,602  1946-1952 
79 John Taylor 5,598  1987-1995 
80 Rich Caster 5,515  1970-1982 
81 Ray Renfro 5,508  1952-1963 
82 Chris Burford 5,505  1960-1967 
83 Jerry Smith 5,496  1965-1977 
84 Lynn Swann+ 5,462  1974-1982 

In receptions, if you take out everyone who started after 1982, not sure he cracks the Top 75 in receptions, here are 5 guys that are still ahead of him.  

  Elroy Hirsch+ 387  1946-1957 
  Dante Lavelli+ 386  1946-1956 
  Gene Washington 385  1969-1979 
  Tony Nathan 383  1979-1987 
  John Gilliam 382  1967-1977 

Again, i'm not saying he shouldn't be in, but someone could sure make a case that his individual stats don't merit being in.  His playoff performances were spectacular.  

I'm not a Cowboy's fan, but I could make the case that Drew Pearson, who isn't in the HOF, should be in before Swann.  Better stats than Swan, but has only 1 ring.  He was, like Swann and Stallworth, awesome.  489 Receptions, 7822 Yds and 48 TD's.  His problem is Dallas lost two close games to those great Steelers teams and the 49er's in the Championship round in 1981.

 

-Jerry

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22 hours ago, boogielicious said:

It was a different game back then. Put Lynn Swann on Pitt today and he would have Antonio Brown numbers. He was an excellent receiver.

Nonsense.  Antonio Brown's numbers tower above most WRs.  Not so Swann.  And do not tell me about it being a different game back then, as Swann isn't even among the leaders on yards receiving even among those who played before and during his career.  He was a very good receiver but the reason h is in the HOF is that he played on a team that had the most dominant defense of its time.  

He had a very good career, but a very good career surrounded by HOFers is not more worthy of the HOF, IMO, than a great career, just because THAT guy was surrounded by the Keystone Kops.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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1 minute ago, turtleback said:

Nonsense.  Antonio Brown's numbers tower above most WRs.  Not so Swann.  And do not tell me about it being a different game back then, as Swann isn't even among the leaders on yards receiving even among those who played before and during his career.  He was a very good receiver but the reason h is in the HOF is that he played on a team that had the most dominant defense of its time.  

He had a very good career, but a very good career surrounded by HOFers is not more worthy of the HOF, IMO, than a great career, just because THAT guy was surrounded by the Keystone Kops.

Pitt was a running team. Swann was also an exceptional downfield blocker. I watched him play. He could do a lot of things that wide receivers are not asked to do today. I'm certain that Big Ben would have boosted Swann's numbers.

Scott

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41 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Pitt was a running team. Swann was also an exceptional downfield blocker. I watched him play. He could do a lot of things that wide receivers are not asked to do today. I'm certain that Big Ben would have boosted Swann's numbers.

 Which is great, but is that worthy of being a HOF-er.  Hines Ward was an awesome blocker as well as he caught over 1,000 receptions.  He's definitely worthy of the HOF, but I wonder if he will make it.  Just think, only six wide receivers with careers started since 1980 have made it,  Art Monk, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Jerry Rice, and now Marvin Harrison will be enshrined this year to make 7.  Which is amazing to me.  

-Jerry

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2 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

 Which is great, but is that worthy of being a HOF-er.  Hines Ward was an awesome blocker as well as he caught over 1,000 receptions.  He's definitely worthy of the HOF, but I wonder if he will make it.  Just think, only six wide receivers with careers started since 1980 have made it,  Art Monk, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Jerry Rice, and now Marvin Harrison will be enshrined this year to make 7.  Which is amazing to me.  

Randy Moss will be next. It is odd considering the HoF leaning toward offensive players. I think receivers have a harder time because the number of targets/touches per game is lower.

Scott

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2 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Randy Moss will be next. It is odd considering the HoF leaning toward offensive players. I think receivers have a harder time because the number of targets/touches per game is lower.

I don't think it should matter. You shouldn't compare between RB & WR or other offensive positions. If you are the top what ever in your position then you should be in the HOF. 

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3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I don't think it should matter. You shouldn't compare between RB & WR or other offensive positions. If you are the top what ever in your position then you should be in the HOF. 

Stop making sense. You have to think like a HoF voter, remember!

Scott

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18 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I don't think it should matter. You shouldn't compare between RB & WR or other offensive positions. If you are the top what ever in your position then you should be in the HOF. 

Do you think Devin Hester (as KR/PR) should be in the HOF?  How about Jason Hanson (most points scored in a single-team career)?

Also, can we rename the Hall of Fame?  Fame clearly isn't the deciding factor for being featured in it.

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Interesting article about player safety with regards to a pivotal play in the Super Bowl. I think Denver would have won regardless, but the author has a good point. A rule is a rule from the first pre-season game to the last game. What infuriates fans, players and coaches is the inconsistency of the calls, not necessarily the rules themselves.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/super-bowls-best-play-features-another-nfl-safety-rule-lie

Quote

imagejpg1455032776384.thumb.jpg.071939f6

By Matt Chatham

The NFL has painted itself into another corner.  A corner they pray you don't notice they are in.

In the biggest game of the year with the world watching, the day's best player and Super Bowl 50 MVP had his seminal moment, an awesome olé pass rush move and forced-fumble sack of league MVP Cam Newton.  This perfect football play by Broncos outside linebacker Von Millerallowed teammate Malik Jackson to scoop the fumble and score.  That defensive touchdown was the only non-field goal on the board for the eventual champs until the final moments of the game, obviously critical points to buoy a Denver offense that struggled throughout the day.

The only problem?  This play is against the NFL's precious rules.  Love it or loathe it, by rule you can't hit the QB's head.  Period.  

What should be a perpetually-shown highlight of what the Broncos accomplished and a celebrated football play is a clear abomination of the nonsense rules alter created by pearl-clutching, integrity-free automaton, NFL Commish Roger Goodell.

After a season overflowing with nonsensical calls that leave players, fans, and honest bipeds unsure what the hell might be called on any given play, Goodell used his Super Bowl press conference to brag on what he believes (or at least says) is a better version of the game now due to his super-awesome improvements.  He crowed on the "thirty-nine rule changes to promote player health and safety." He also added:

"There is no higher priority than player safety."

As the following video shows, if Goodell is to be believed (don't do that), head referee Clete Blakemanstared down what was ultimately the biggest play of Super Bowl 50 and ignored the league's highest priority.  To be fair, Case Keenum's health is also the "highest priority," so maybe Goodell is just inventing word meanings again...

 

Scott

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Scott, your Tom Brady fanboyism is showing.

Pretty sure you could go find a bunch of plays missed on both sides of the ball on both teams. Carolina lost. Peyton won (despite playing like poo). Tom Brady lost two weeks before.

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2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Interesting article about player safety with regards to a pivotal play in the Super Bowl. I think Denver would have won regardless, but the author has a good point. A rule is a rule from the first pre-season game to the last game. What infuriates fans, players and coaches is the inconsistency of the calls, not necessarily the rules themselves.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/super-bowls-best-play-features-another-nfl-safety-rule-lie

 

The hit was made with Miller's head up and his facemask made incidental contact with Newton's.  Hell, it wasn't really even a hit, not in the normal usage of that term in the NFL.  No foul, not even in the strictest sense of the rule.  If that contact is disallowed then they had best just say that nobody is allowed to rush the passer at all.  

Note that the writer of that article is an ex Patriot - 'nuff said.

Rick

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