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Bunkers & Rough - The New Look - Thumbs Down

bkuehn1952

By bkuehn1952,
in Golf Courses and Architecture

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bkuehn1952 Super Member

bkuehn1952

This is not a discussion of Whistling Straights but rather a newer approach by some courses in SE Michigan.  The best (worst) example is the University of Michigan course.

This Alastair MacKenzie designed course has undergone a number of recent tweaks (tree removal, native grass areas, etc...).  Ostensibly these changes are in line with the original design.  Generally I find the changes to be very good.

One recent change, however, has me a bit irritated.  A significant number of bunkers have had the surrounding grass allowed to grow out.  It certainly looks cool seeing this mound & sand surrounded by 3 foot fescue stalks and 6 - 8 inch rough.  The problem is if one misses the bunker (a hazard) by 6 inches it is not inconceivable that one might have a lost ball.

I don't understand the design idea that hitting a bunker is better than missing the bunker.  I am not talking about missing the bunker by 10-20 yards.  Missing by a foot can leave your ball in gunch that is essentially unplayable, if you can even find it.  It just seems odd that a shot into a hazard is much better than missing the hazard.

Any thoughts?  Am I missing the point?

Brian Kuehn

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

I would tend to agree with you.  With so many courses going to that "look", it's really reducing playability and it can really have an adverse effect on pace of play.  It's like a course has an inferiority complex if it doesn't have 300 bunkers and 3 foot deep native grass.  Most players don't have the ability to really handle such a course, but that doesn't seem to make much of an impression on course architects.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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onkey Well Established Member

onkey

I truly hate this trend.  Not only is it frustrating for the golfer who hits into that stuff, it can slow the pace of play dramatically for all.  The benefit to the course is saving money on gas, wages, water and upkeep of the mowers--without a huge turnaround in the state of the game, I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Randal

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MSchott Great Member

MSchott

This is not a discussion of Whistling Straights but rather a newer approach by some courses in SE Michigan.  The best (worst) example is the University of Michigan course.

This Alastair MacKenzie designed course has undergone a number of recent tweaks (tree removal, native grass areas, etc...).  Ostensibly these changes are in line with the original design.  Generally I find the changes to be very good.

One recent change, however, has me a bit irritated.  A significant number of bunkers have had the surrounding grass allowed to grow out.  It certainly looks cool seeing this mound & sand surrounded by 3 foot fescue stalks and 6 - 8 inch rough.  The problem is if one misses the bunker (a hazard) by 6 inches it is not inconceivable that one might have a lost ball.

I don't understand the design idea that hitting a bunker is better than missing the bunker.  I am not talking about missing the bunker by 10-20 yards.  Missing by a foot can leave your ball in gunch that is essentially unplayable, if you can even find it.  It just seems odd that a shot into a hazard is much better than missing the hazard.

Any thoughts?  Am I missing the point?

Do you have any pictures of this? My impression is that the U of M course is trying to go to fescue in some areas to conserve water but I did not know they were doing this around the bunkers which makes no sense. I did not notice this when I played there last summer.

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No Mulligans Great Member

No Mulligans

I truly enjoyed watching the PGA at Whistling Straits but I would never want to play that course.  Usually a 'near green in regulation' is good, but not there, missing those greens by just a little bit can be so punitive.

That course may be fine for really good golfers, but for us high handicappers, definitely not a course to play.

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MSchott Great Member

MSchott

I will try to get some tomorrow when I play there.  Some photos might better show the problem, as I see it.

Thanks.

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dkolo Great Member

dkolo

I truly enjoyed watching the PGA at Whistling Straits but I would never want to play that course.  Usually a 'near green in regulation' is good, but not there, missing those greens by just a little bit can be so punitive.

That course may be fine for really good golfers, but for us high handicappers, definitely not a course to play.

Amen. I was watching it on TV and thinking, "Why would anyone worse than a scratch want to play there?" No thank you.

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bkuehn1952 Super Member

bkuehn1952

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Greenside bunker.  If you are a bit short & right of the green, you land in the hay.  A bit longer and the bunker.

Depending on where the ball lands, one could have a hard time finding the sphere.  One's approach shot is typically from a swale so you can not see the ball come to rest.

Not the best photos but we were in a bit of a rush.  Maybe next week I get a better view from the distance.

Brian Kuehn

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Greenside bunker.  If you are a bit short & right of the green, you land in the hay.  A bit longer and the bunker.

Depending on where the ball lands, one could have a hard time finding the sphere.  One's approach shot is typically from a swale so you can not see the ball come to rest.

Not the best photos but we were in a bit of a rush.  Maybe next week I get a better view from the distance.

The photos are good enough to frighten me.  That's nasty stuff.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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WUTiger Incredible Member

WUTiger

The bushy look is something the greens crew might trot out at major tournament time.

The pros can handle it better than we can. If we hit into the hay , we don't have 400 people waiting in the roughline to help us find our ball.

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Duff McGee Great Member

Duff McGee

The bushy look is something the greens crew might trot out at major tournament time. The pros can handle it better than we can. If we hit into the hay , we don't have 400 people waiting in the roughline to help us find our ball.

Haha don't say this in the lost golf ball rule thread.

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Haha don't say this in the lost golf ball rule thread.

Why? People might respond logically and point out that your concept of "fairness" needs and adjustment? :-)

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Duff McGee Great Member

Duff McGee

Why? People might respond logically and point out that your concept of "fairness" needs and adjustment? :-)

One good thing about me is that I'm always open to being proven wrong. So it may very well change my mind. When you go through 3 years of hell (law school) you learn that ego and "being right" is not something to aspire to. The world is gray, not black and white. So as long as people are respectful, I am always open to being corrected.

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Why? People might respond logically and point out that your concept of "fairness" needs and adjustment?

One good thing about me is that I'm always open to being proven wrong. So it may very well change my mind. When you go through 3 years of hell (law school) you learn that ego and "being right" is not something to aspire to. The world is gray, not black and white. So as long as people are respectful, I am always open to being corrected.

Well stated. I would add that we should strive to separate the "problem" from the "person." Debate the topic and don't let your argument attack the opponent personally but the point of view.

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Scott

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MSchott Great Member

MSchott

Greenside bunker.  If you are a bit short & right of the green, you land in the hay.  A bit longer and the bunker.

Depending on where the ball lands, one could have a hard time finding the sphere.  One's approach shot is typically from a swale so you can not see the ball come to rest.

Not the best photos but we were in a bit of a rush.  Maybe next week I get a better view from the distance.

Thank you. This greenskeeping practice makes no sense. if you hit a ball near the hazard it should have a chance to enter that hazard. Second, rough that deep is far too penal for everyday play. I think Dr. MacKenzie would not approve.

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/130158/] Greenside bunker [/URL] Greenside bunker.  If you are a bit short & right of the green, you land in the hay.  A bit longer and the bunker. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/130159/] Close-up of ball [/URL] Depending on where the ball lands, one could have a hard time finding the sphere.  One's approach shot is typically from a swale so you can not see the ball come to rest. Not the best photos but we were in a bit of a rush.  Maybe next week I get a better view from the distance.

I haven't encountered anything like this by me, but that's ridiculous. It's gimmicky and I'd find somewhere else to play at.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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MSchott Great Member

MSchott

I haven't encountered anything like this by me, but that's ridiculous. It's gimmicky and I'd find somewhere else to play at.

I wouldn't go that far as the U of M course is one of the best courses in Michigan. Just stay away from the bunkers :-D .

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Note: This thread is 3166 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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