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Provisional-2nd provisional and found ball question


Elmer
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We walk 10 yards up and he plays his next shot  up the fairway.

As we begin walking up the fairway I look to my left and just past the ladies/senior tees is a ball.

I inform my opponent of a ball, he does not care continues walking. I inspect further it is his original ball.

He then comes back and plays it. Now he is lying 1 hitting 2 instead of lying 7 after 2 lost balls.???

I'm reading they go 10 yards and a shot was played. (I believe he describes it being the second provisional ball)

Then they walk towards the hole and the first ball was found.

Seems only one ball was lost, which is irrelevant, original ball was found and player did not play provisional from spot beyond where the first ball was found.

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

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I'm reading they go 10 yards and a shot was played. (I believe he describes it being the second provisional ball) Then they walk towards the hole and the first ball was found. Seems only one ball was lost, which is irrelevant, original ball was found and player did not play provisional from spot beyond where the first ball was found.

The rule reads where the ball is likely to be...it is more likely the ball was in the woods as that is where they last saw it, so the way I interpret the rule is the likely spot for his ball to be is 10 yards to the right in the woods...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Club Rat

I'm reading they go 10 yards and a shot was played. (I believe he describes it being the second provisional ball)

Then they walk towards the hole and the first ball was found.

Seems only one ball was lost, which is irrelevant, original ball was found and player did not play provisional from spot beyond where the first ball was found.

The rule reads where the ball is likely to be...it is more likely the ball was in the woods as that is where they last saw it, so the way I interpret the rule is the likely spot for his ball to be is 10 yards to the right in the woods...

This.  If the provisional ball was played from where the original ball was likely to be, then it is the ball in play.  Makes no difference if the ball took an odd bounce and turns out not to be where it was likely to be.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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The rule reads where the ball is likely to be...it is more likely the ball was in the woods as that is where they last saw it, so the way I interpret the rule is the likely spot for his ball to be is 10 yards to the right in the woods...

Hmm. Could you post the ruling.

I'm having a difficult time grasping "Likey" having precedence over the spot where ball is "actual" since it was found.

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

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Hmm. Could you post the ruling. I'm having a difficult time grasping "Likey" having precedence over the spot where ball is "actual" since it was found.

It's because you get to play the provisional up to the point where you want to go looking for the ball to save time so you don't have to go back to play your provisional after you didn't find the original ball. Once you get your ball to where you thought your original was, you're not saving any time by hitting the provisional and are just getting a free practice shot if you hit the provisional and then find and play your original around there. If the ball isn't where you thought it'd be, you either keep looking for the original and leave the provisional alone or you give up on the original and decide to play out the provisional. If you subsequently find it where you didn't think it was, that's beyond what the rules allow with the provisional. There needs to be a cut off and this is it. At least that's how I've understood if.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

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Hmm. Could you post the ruling. I'm having a difficult time grasping "Likey" having precedence over the spot where ball is "actual" since it was found.

Don't you read the entire post before commenting??? I think 3 people above have posted the entire ruling and decision...

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To save time, Rule 27-2 allows you to play a Provisional Ball when the ball might be OB or lost outside a water hazard. But there are some requirements you must meet to use this Rule:

You must play the provisional before going forward to search.

You must declare that it is a provisional to your opponent, marker or fellow-competitor before playing it. Be specific; say, “This is a provisional,” not “I’d better hit another.”

You may NOT hit a provisional if the ONLY place the ball could be lost is in a water hazard.

If you violate these restrictions, the ball is not a provisional. It becomes your ball in play and the original may not be played.

The provisional becomes your ball in play when:

The original is out of bounds;

You have searched for five minutes without finding the original;

You play the provisional from a place where the original is likely to be or somewhere nearer the hole than that.

The provisional must be abandoned when:

You find the original ball in-bounds inside five minutes;

I find this confusing and contradictory to the ruling.

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

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To save time, [URL=http://usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid;=14306#27-2]Rule 27-2[/URL] allows you to play a Provisional Ball when the ball might be OB or lost outside a water hazard. But there are some requirements you must meet to use this Rule:  You must play the provisional before going forward to search.  You must declare that it is a provisional to your opponent, marker or fellow-competitor before playing it. Be specific; say, “This is a provisional,” not “I’d better hit another.”  You may NOT hit a provisional if the ONLY place the ball could be lost is in a water hazard.  If you violate these restrictions, the ball is not a provisional. It becomes your ball in play and the original may not be played.  [COLOR=00FF00]The provisional becomes your ball in play when: [/COLOR] The original is out of bounds;  You have searched for five minutes without finding the original;  [COLOR=00FF00]You play the provisional from a place where the original is likely to be or somewhere nearer the hole than that. [/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]The provisional must be abandoned when:[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000] You find the original ball in-bounds inside five minutes;[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]I find this confusing and contradictory to the ruling.[/COLOR]

I find this post very festively colored, haha.

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Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

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To save time, Rule 27-2 allows you to play a Provisional Ball when the ball might be OB or lost outside a water hazard. But there are some requirements you must meet to use this Rule:

You must play the provisional before going forward to search.

You must declare that it is a provisional to your opponent, marker or fellow-competitor before playing it. Be specific; say, “This is a provisional,” not “I’d better hit another.”

You may NOT hit a provisional if the ONLY place the ball could be lost is in a water hazard.

If you violate these restrictions, the ball is not a provisional. It becomes your ball in play and the original may not be played.

The provisional becomes your ball in play when:

The original is out of bounds;

You have searched for five minutes without finding the original;

You play the provisional from a place where the original is likely to be or somewhere nearer the hole than that.

The provisional must be abandoned when:

You find the original ball in-bounds inside five minutes;

I find this confusing and contradictory to the ruling.

The order of the listing is the order of precedence.   If you haven't searched for 5 minutes, but you then play the provisional ball from the area near where you were searching (or closer to the hole than that - it's assumed that you were searching in the area where the ball was likely to be), then it becomes the ball in play, regardless of whether you subsequently find the original ball within the 5 minutes that would have been allowed for searching.  By playing the next stroke at the provisional, you have abandoned the original ball and that cannot be rescinded.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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To save time, [URL=http://usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid;=14306#27-2]Rule 27-2[/URL] allows you to play a Provisional Ball when the ball might be OB or lost outside a water hazard. But there are some requirements you must meet to use this Rule:  You must play the provisional before going forward to search.  You must declare that it is a provisional to your opponent, marker or fellow-competitor before playing it. Be specific; say, “This is a provisional,” not “I’d better hit another.”  You may NOT hit a provisional if the ONLY place the ball could be lost is in a water hazard.  If you violate these restrictions, the ball is not a provisional. It becomes your ball in play and the original may not be played.  [COLOR=00FF00]The provisional becomes your ball in play when: [/COLOR] The original is out of bounds;  You have searched for five minutes without finding the original;  [COLOR=00FF00]You play the provisional from a place where the original is likely to be or somewhere nearer the hole than that. [/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]The provisional must be abandoned when:[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000] You find the original ball in-bounds inside five minutes;[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]I find this confusing and contradictory to the ruling.[/COLOR]

Yes, this was posted above a couple times...so what are you saying?!

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Hmm. Could you post the ruling.

I'm having a difficult time grasping "Likey" having precedence over the spot where ball is "actual" since it was found.

When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be . If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1 ).

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You're all incorrect. Under match play, when he played the wrong ball he lost the hole.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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You're all incorrect. Under match play, when he played the wrong ball he lost the hole.

I'm not sure that anyone has given a stroke ruling yet...so I'm not sure that your assessment of all of us being incorrect is accurate...of course if he played the wrong ball in match play the hole is lost, but he was asking if the guy was okay with not playing the original ball instead of the provisional....any way you look at this the guy should have lost the hole, either by strokes or by playing the wrong ball...

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When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

where the original ball is likely to be.

This is the part of the ruling which I'm having difficulty with.

How can a rule with "LIKELY TO BE" have merit to any certainly?

I'm good with the player searching in the area where they deem the ball was hit, then after 5 minutes of searching, they then play the provisional.

I guess I'm creating a scenario when a player hits a couple of shots to the same area, finds the second shot, hits it, believes the first shot is lost, walks forward towards the hole and then finds the first ball.

Rules, rules, rules, who wrote these damn rules.....

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

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But in the event of this: I hit my drive. I looked where I thought the ball was in the rough. It wasn't there. I declared the ball lost, and I took the walk of shame. hit another shorter drive I hit my second shot off that drive and put it dead on the green about 5' from the hole. On the way to the green about 30 yds further than where I thought my original drive had gone (I really got hold of it) I found my original ball. I was sure it was my ball because of the unique marking. I was obligated under the rules of golf to play that ball, which I skulled over the green and onto the hillside off the dike road, hit a lousy pitch short, chipped on, three putted, and turned what would have been a bogey into a triple bogey.

A gallery of fans and TV cameras would have saved the time.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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But in the event of this: I hit my drive. I looked where I thought the ball was in the rough. It wasn't there. I declared the ball lost, and I took the walk of shame. hit another shorter drive I hit my second shot off that drive and put it dead on the green about 5' from the hole. On the way to the green about 30 yds further than where I thought my original drive had gone (I really got hold of it) I found my original ball. I was sure it was my ball because of the unique marking. I was obligated under the rules of golf to play that ball, which I skulled over the green and onto the hillside off the dike road, hit a lousy pitch short, chipped on, three putted, and turned what would have been a bogey into a triple bogey.

A gallery of fans and TV cameras would have saved the time.

I'm confused by the pronouns: did you finish the hole with your original drive or your ball that it sounds like you went back to the tee to rehit?

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

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But in the event of this: I hit my drive. I looked where I thought the ball was in the rough. It wasn't there. I declared the ball lost, and I took the walk of shame. hit another shorter drive I hit my second shot off that drive and put it dead on the green about 5' from the hole. On the way to the green about 30 yds further than where I thought my original drive had gone (I really got hold of it) I found my original ball. I was sure it was my ball because of the unique marking. I was obligated under the rules of golf to play that ball, which I skulled over the green and onto the hillside off the dike road, hit a lousy pitch short, chipped on, three putted, and turned what would have been a bogey into a triple bogey.

A gallery of fans and TV cameras would have saved the time.

You were wrong.  After returning to the tee to play a second ball, that ball was the ball in play.  It doesn't matter where your original ball turns up unless it's in the hole (if the ball is holed, then you have finished the hole and playing a second ball is irrelevant unless it is deemed to be practice).  When you continued play with your original ball you played a wrong ball and were required to correct the mistake.  In not doing so, you are disqualified.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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So even though the ball was way further down than I could have thought to have looked - which would have been about the entire length of the hole since I nearly drove the green, but couldn't see that side of the fairway from the tee. So what do you do? Hit a provisional on every hole where you don't have a clear view of the fairway? I played the wrong ball. I should have taken my bogey putt and gone home. But you see, this is the way I was told to play it in my league. It wouldn't be the first time they were wrong about a rule.

See here's where the rules are really screwed up for us common folk who don't have TV cameras following the ball. The ball was lost on the edge of the first cut way the hell down near the green. I just couldn't see it. No one could see it. I don't hit a high drive - apparently I hit a low-mid low spin bullet that rolls a mile.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Note: This thread is 3143 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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