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Husband and Wife Relations


Duff McGee
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I think this is well said but is really just touching the surface of the larger dynamic. These are symptoms of a healthy relationship, but what makes the relationship healthy goes much deeper and is more complicated as @Duff McGee has pointed out.

This is about making yourself as the main focus in your life. You do what you want and others follow your lead. You just get it, you use common sense like skipping golf to take your wife out on her birthday, watch your kids' game, etc. Normal functioning men will understand where the line is an not cross it, they also don't need to be told by their wives what the priority needs to be, they just know.

Too man men are afraid to lead their own lives. They hand decision making over to their wives thinking it will "make them happy." Wrong. It does just the opposite. A woman does not want to make all of the decisions for her and her husband. She will resent that role and it will destroy the marriage. Make a decision. You say "honey, FYI, I'm gonna golf Saturday morning with my friends, do we have any conflicts." You are not asking for permission, you are using simple courtesy to inform the person you share a household with what your plans are and to make sure you haven't missed anything that may conflict with them.

If you "get it" and live a life of your own she will respect you. If you love your wife and enjoy spending time with her you will make plenty of quality time to spend with her that doesn't take away from golf. It isn't hard.

I have been divorced and pay child support, I've been there. I now have a two-year relationship based on a completely different dynamic. I've seen both sides.

Couldn't agree more. Exactly my point this whole time. Apparently I'm presumptuous though. At least someone who's divorced agrees with me. The bottom line is if you're a man you make your own decisions. Those decisions involve respecting and taking care of your girl. If you do that and she has an issue then she is not right because she has her own issues. If you aren't man enough to stand up for yourself that's just as big of a problem.

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Couldn't agree more. Exactly my point this whole time. Apparently I'm presumptuous though. At least someone who's divorced agrees with me. The bottom line is if you're a man you make your own decisions. Those decisions involve respecting and taking care of your girl. If you do that and she has an issue then she is not right because she has her own issues. If you aren't man enough to stand up for yourself that's just as big of a problem.

I've now said multiple times that I agree with you in principle but you can't just give people these pieces of over generalized advice without knowing their personal story is what I'm trying to say. hoe many times have you seen someone making grandiose generalized "I know the right way" type of comments on Facebook and it actually is something you are dealing with and can't believe how ignorant that person is for presuming to know what's best? I didn't tell my whole story. I am divorced, yes,but now am married to a woman that is extremely loving, respectful, and fun. It was incompatibility that did me in on my first marriage. And yes I do advise people that are in trouble to not consider outside things and to try to do what is best for making them happy. Yet each situation is different and can't be rolled up into a nice, neat bow.

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I think this is well said but is really just touching the surface of the larger dynamic. These are symptoms of a healthy relationship, but what makes the relationship healthy goes much deeper and is more complicated as @Duff McGee has pointed out.

This is about making yourself as the main focus in your life. You do what you want and others follow your lead. You just get it, you use common sense like skipping golf to take your wife out on her birthday, watch your kids' game, etc. Normal functioning men will understand where the line is an not cross it, they also don't need to be told by their wives what the priority needs to be, they just know.

Too man men are afraid to lead their own lives. They hand decision making over to their wives thinking it will "make them happy." Wrong. It does just the opposite. A woman does not want to make all of the decisions for her and her husband. She will resent that role and it will destroy the marriage. Make a decision. You say "honey, FYI, I'm gonna golf Saturday morning with my friends, do we have any conflicts." You are not asking for permission, you are using simple courtesy to inform the person you share a household with what your plans are and to make sure you haven't missed anything that may conflict with them.

If you "get it" and live a life of your own she will respect you. If you love your wife and enjoy spending time with her you will make plenty of quality time to spend with her that doesn't take away from golf. It isn't hard.

I have been divorced and pay child support, I've been there. I now have a two-year relationship based on a completely different dynamic. I've seen both sides.

Great post!  If you're spouse or significant other doesn't make your happiness one of their top priorities then you're with the wrong person or you need couples counseling.

Where it gets complicated is that people settle or enter into a relationship thinking the person will change and it's not until a one or more kids later they figure out that the person isn't changing, but that still doesn't change the fact they married the wrong person.

Joe Paradiso

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I think there are too many posts that are well intentioned but miss many points of a relationship.  The point of a relationship when you are married is not about just living your own life and expecting the other person to follow.  Interestingly enough, if each of you did that what is going to happen?  A person can't do both, lead their lives and follow the other person who is doing the same thing.  That is faulty logic.  I understand what most of the intent is, but a marriage is a union, and it is about compromising.  My wife and I compromise.  Yes, when I want to get my way, I am going to get my way, and we both know that.  But we also both know that I am usually not going to fight for something fervently unless I truly believe it is absolutely necessary and in our best interests.  We don't fight much, we snip at each other sometimes but in good fun.  I love my wife, I love spending time with my wife.  I cherish that I have a wife who wants to spend time with me, otherwise, what would have been the point of getting married?!

That being said, I firmly believe that elements of a healthy relationship includes not giving up all of your individuality.  And that should go both ways and apply equally to both individuals.

If you are a married man who saunters over in his best John Wayne walk to tell the lil lady the way it is going to be every Tuesday and Thursday evening, and every Saturday morning and also on Mon and Fri evenings (driving range time) then why bother being married anyway?  Yesterday we were sitting under the big oak watching golfers play drinking some margaritas, I got an itch because the weather wound up holding, turned said to my wife: "I knew I should have gone golfing, if I can get in a few holes of twilight are you okay with that?"  And she was.  But I didn't have too pull my buckle up, lower my voice and tell her the way it is.  I make a lot of the decisions (most in fact) because my wife just prefers it that way but important decisions are always discussed, and our time and how we use it is one of the most important things we can make decisions about.  There is time for both my wife, my children and my own interests, its called balance, not "Let me show by leading my own life".

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I've now said multiple times that I agree with you in principle but you can't just give people these pieces of over generalized advice without knowing their personal story is what I'm trying to say. hoe many times have you seen someone making grandiose generalized "I know the right way" type of comments on Facebook and it actually is something you are dealing with and can't believe how ignorant that person is for presuming to know what's best?

I didn't tell my whole story. I am divorced, yes,but now am married to a woman that is extremely loving, respectful, and fun. It was incompatibility that did me in on my first marriage. And yes I do advise people that are in trouble to not consider outside things and to try to do what is best for making them happy.

Yet each situation is different and can't be rolled up into a nice, neat bow.

I apologize. I am not trying to give anyone advice on anything. I am simply stating my opinion on it. I don't have facebook but I could see how that would be annoying. In my opinion however I do think that if you're someone who legitimately has to ask yourself the question that is in the title of this thread, there are some deeper issues already there in your relationship. I am glad that your new marriage is going well and hope everybody can find something like that. Then we can all golf our asses off and have women who support it.

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I apologize. I am not trying to give anyone advice on anything. I am simply stating my opinion on it. I don't have facebook but I could see how that would be annoying. In my opinion however I do think that if you're someone who legitimately has to ask yourself the question that is in the title of this thread, there are some deeper issues already there in your relationship. I am glad that your new marriage is going well and hope everybody can find something like that. Then we can all golf our asses off and have women who support it.

I respectfully disagree.  That "deeper issue" may have been that you HAVE been playing too much golf and don't spend time with your wife!!  Not everyone is married to a golfing enthusiast.  Not everyone began golfing (or whatever said interest) before they got married and had the foresight to only marry someone who was going to understand their passion for golf.  That type of a view is naive at best.

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I think this is well said but is really just touching the surface of the larger dynamic. These are symptoms of a healthy relationship, but what makes the relationship healthy goes much deeper and is more complicated as @Duff McGee has pointed out.

This is about making yourself as the main focus in your life. You do what you want and others follow your lead. You just get it, you use common sense like skipping golf to take your wife out on her birthday, watch your kids' game, etc. Normal functioning men will understand where the line is an not cross it, they also don't need to be told by their wives what the priority needs to be, they just know.

Too man men are afraid to lead their own lives. They hand decision making over to their wives thinking it will "make them happy." Wrong. It does just the opposite. A woman does not want to make all of the decisions for her and her husband. She will resent that role and it will destroy the marriage. Make a decision. You say "honey, FYI, I'm gonna golf Saturday morning with my friends, do we have any conflicts." You are not asking for permission, you are using simple courtesy to inform the person you share a household with what your plans are and to make sure you haven't missed anything that may conflict with them.

If you "get it" and live a life of your own she will respect you. If you love your wife and enjoy spending time with her you will make plenty of quality time to spend with her that doesn't take away from golf. It isn't hard.

I have been divorced and pay child support, I've been there. I now have a two-year relationship based on a completely different dynamic. I've seen both sides.

The whole not asking for permission but informing thing, well, your spouse may see it differently and you may be missing a larger part of what is behind just informing someone.  It is one thing to inform my wife I am going to go swimming in the pool or watch a movie.  It is another thing to inform my wife I am going to go pay for and play golf.  There may be financial implications, etc as well.

I can't help but wonder if that type of thinking is a large part of why your first marriage ended in divorce.  I certainly don't know anything about you besides the fabulous relationship advice you have posted here but it does make one think maybe that was the problem to begin with.

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I feel things are a little different when kids are involved and their ages.  My wife is a stay at home mom with a 1 year old and a 6 year old.  She has the kids from 6 AM to 5:30 PM.  If I were to "inform" her several times a week that I am going golfing after work, there would be issues and I understand it.  She knows I have a standard Sat AM and Tuesday after work tee times.  Anything outside of that, I do ask her.  I never know if she has had a rough day with the kids and needs a break.

The ones here that are saying it doesn't matter if kids are involved have teenagers that are gone all day anyway.  Your wife isn't responsible for keeping them alive every minute of the day.  Some of you just plain sound like a-holes with your stomp your foot and tell her how it is ways.  Everyone's situations are different.

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I can't help but wonder if that type of thinking is a large part of why your first marriage ended in divorce.  I certainly don't know anything about you besides the fabulous relationship advice you have posted here but it does make one think maybe that was the problem to begin with.

First of all, what is with people speculating as to the cause of someone's divorce based on a few internet forum posts?

Secondly, it was NOT using this type of thinking that led to my divorce, and using it has led to a high-quality relationship with my gf. Being a supplicating p**** led to my divorce. Pandering to her every need, trying to make her happy, asking her permission to live my life all led to her losing all attraction for me and ultimately the end of my marriage. You cannot negotiate attraction. No amount of compromise or "communicating" will lead to respect in a marriage.

- Mark

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First of all, what is with people speculating as to the cause of someone's divorce based on a few internet forum posts?

Secondly, it was NOT using this type of thinking that led to my divorce, and using it has led to a high-quality relationship with my gf. Being a supplicating p**** led to my divorce. Pandering to her every need, trying to make her happy, asking her permission to live my life all led to her losing all attraction for me and ultimately the end of my marriage. You cannot negotiate attraction. No amount of compromise or "communicating" will lead to respect in a marriage.

That is easy, it is because you represented yourself as a pretty self involved person (even displaying at a minimum some mild sexism) who thinks that his opinion in a relationship environment is more important than the other persons.  Thats also why I said I don't know anything about you besides what you have posted here but can't help but wonder.  Even though I am reasonably confident your attitude towards relationships may have something to do with it, I don't know all of the dynamics so I only commented with speculation and on what was observable in your post.

I am going to refrain from saying things that may be highly insulting, but I in all honesty and without any offense really do think that you could benefit from some counseling.  You obviously have scars from your divorce and feel that going the opposite direction is the correct path now, it isn't.

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The whole not asking for permission but informing thing, well, your spouse may see it differently and you may be missing a larger part of what is behind just informing someone.  It is one thing to inform my wife I am going to go swimming in the pool or watch a movie.  It is another thing to inform my wife I am going to go pay for and play golf.  There may be financial implications, etc as well.

I can't help but wonder if that type of thinking is a large part of why your first marriage ended in divorce.  I certainly don't know anything about you besides the fabulous relationship advice you have posted here but it does make one think maybe that was the problem to begin with.


Yep, everything is a negotiation. I don't think "you" is the primary focus when you enter into a marriage. By entering marriage, you agree to a relationship that limits "what you are going to do" to a certain extent. You negotiate both of your needs for the good of each other and the relationship. You are taking leadership.

It's a negotiation -- you both have needs. When or if I do it again, I will sit down with her on a weekly (also discuss monthly and yearly plans) basis, and say "These are my plans for the week, before I finalize them, let's talk about your plans, our priorities, and how we can both get what we want. Same thing with a budget.

If you don't confront these issues head-on, then someone will get passive-aggressive, and there goes the marriage. Been there...

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I could never imagine being in a relationship where the other person told me what I could or couldn't do, and when I could or couldn't do it. I'm a grown man. Which in and of itself means I understand what's important and whether or not it's interfering with something. A girl who says, "You can't do this because you do it too much and I want you to do X" is not someone who you want to be in a relationship with. The one who understands the things you enjoy and that make you happy and encourages you to do those things is the type of person we all should be with. That being said, you don't act braindead and schedule a tee time when her parents are coming over. It's just common sense, and you do that because you actually care about her. If you don't, then you probably shouldn't be in the relationship to begin with. But if you're with a woman who tells you that you can't do something just because she doesn't like it or thinks that you do it too much? Uhh yeah...no.

I don't believe that is the point. I think, in most relationships, these parameters are usually decided early in the relationship but I think what can happen is that you can cross a line. If a decision about how you will manage your time going forward, particularly if there are kids involved, is a unilateral one by you, I think you are the one with the problem. Marriage is a team game.

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Bill M

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I apologize. I am not trying to give anyone advice on anything. I am simply stating my opinion on it. I don't have facebook but I could see how that would be annoying. In my opinion however I do think that if you're someone who legitimately has to ask yourself the question that is in the title of this thread, there are some deeper issues already there in your relationship. I am glad that your new marriage is going well and hope everybody can find something like that. Then we can all golf our asses off and have women who support it.

Thank you. I apologize for anything I said that offended you at all.

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It's funny, I never thought people really looked at me thinking I was such a golf enthusiast. But at my wedding, our guests would tell us their first impressions of us, and almost everyone thought I was overly obsessed with golf, which I probably am, but it's my job.  My wife already knew it obviously.  She married me knowing that I would easily wake up at 4am just to go play some nice course 3hrs away.  All I ever did was tell her I was going to this place to play, and she just said ok.  But, I am lucky in that I can play a lot during the week, and i devote my weekend (Saturday) to being with her. Our schedules just work out well.

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If you're a man who lets your wife tell you what to do and when to do it, you're not a man.

So, if you are a woman who lets your husband tell you what to do and when to do it, then are you not a woman? [quote name="united" url="/t/26545/how-much-golf-is-too-much-for-your-wife/100_100#post_1192546"] If you aren't man enough to stand up for yourself that's just as big of a problem.  [/quote] Were a woman not man enough to stand up for herself, is that just as big of a problem? As for me, I've never been married and have no kids. Generally speaking, we inform the other person of the things we want to do to make sure it won't conflict with something already going on that we may have forgotten. My gf knows there's a good chance I'm playing at least one round over a weekend and possibly two. She plays soccer 2-4 times during the week so it works out.

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Christian

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The whole not asking for permission but informing thing, well, your spouse may see it differently and you may be missing a larger part of what is behind just informing someone.  It is one thing to inform my wife I am going to go swimming in the pool or watch a movie.  It is another thing to inform my wife I am going to go pay for and play golf.  There may be financial implications, etc as well.

I can't help but wonder if that type of thinking is a large part of why your first marriage ended in divorce.  I certainly don't know anything about you besides the fabulous relationship advice you have posted here but it does make one think maybe that was the problem to begin with.

I think it's difficult to generalize on the dynamics of other peoples' relationships.  I have friends who don't dare make a move without asking permission from their wives.  If they're ok with that, that's up to them, but it's not how it works for me/us.  We've been married for over 25 years and I established the ground rules very early on in our relationship, when we were still dating and she had first moved in with me.  As I was walking out the door to go to work, I told her I'd be home late because I was going to go out with the guys and have a beer afterwards.  She replied "No, you're not", at which point I came back in, sat down and explained things to her.  I'm not your daddy and you're not my mommy, we're both grown-ups and we don't have to ask for permission to do things.  If you want to go out with your friends, cool - just let me know and give me an idea of when you'll be home so I don't worry about you.  If that doesn't work for you, we might as well end this relationship right now because we'll never be on the same page.

Over 25 years later, that arrangement has worked fine for both of us (we don't have kids, so that doesn't come into play).  We both have our hobbies/interests and are free to pursue them whenever we want, as long as we don't have something else planned.  We have our time together, but both of us are very independent and don't feel the need to cling to each other every waking moment.  I golf anywhere from 2-5 days a week and she has absolutely no problem with it.  We're very happily married and part of the happiness is that we're free to enjoy our hobbies and interests that aren't mutual between us.  I have no desire to go shopping or see 'chick flicks' with her and her mom, and she has no desire to play golf.  Works for us.

I feel sorry for my married friends who can't get a "hall pass" to go down the street and grab a cup of coffee for a half-hour, or to play golf even once a week - but it's their life and they've chosen it, so it's not for me to tell them they're wrong.  Not the life I'd want, but fortunately I don't have to live it.  No two relationships are the same.

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I'm on vacation next week and I'm going to try to find out what her limit is. :-) She has a list of honey-do's that doesn't end.

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