Major Cheating and Personally Interpreting the Rules

[No Mulligans]

Dear Mr No Mulligans,

If you read the posts you'd see that we all agree about people who just want to go out and have fun and this post is not about that.

Your comments are way out of context. Go back and read the posts and you'll see this is about cheating during competition, whether

it's friendly competition or the US Open. Fun for people who are out for just that is not the subject of this post unless you think

cheating and then bragging about beating others who were playing by the rules is "fun".

So since you had to make a comment about the rest of us "needing to get some perspective", when in fact you are the one that needs it,

I'll add more; If you are going to be so lazy as to not check what or who you are shooting at, then someday you will shoot a loved one.

Let this be a lesson to you. Look before you leap (and if you don't want to look, then don't leap).

"Dear Mr No Mulligans," "Let this be a lesson to you"

lol, a bit patronizing and passive aggressive.

[HonestyPolicy]

"Dear Mr No Mulligans," "Let this be a lesson to you"

lol, a bit patronizing and passive aggressive.

Oh but it's fine for you to tell us all that we're not trying to cure cancer or stop world hunger and to get some perspective isn't it?

No apology for being totally wrong, just more hypocritical elitist arrogance.

Try being thorough for a change and maybe you'll actually contribute instead of wasting everyone's time.

[No Mulligans]

@HonestyPolicy ,

I never intended that my 1st post to be directed at you or for that matter everyone that posted on this thread.  It was directed specifically at the comment from shorty that I quoted and I quoted his entire post.  His post was written in a pretty black and white way.

I'm not sure how to apologize since my post wasn't directed at you.  I'll just apologize that I wrote it in a way that could be interpreted that it was directed at you.

Shorty is the one that deserves my apology.  I'm pretty sure I took what he said too far.

[HonestyPolicy]

@NoMulligans

Although you may have quoted shorty, and his black and white comments as you call them, his comments were entirely within the context of the original post and the discussion that ensued. The discussion had already covered your points with regard to fun so that we all were assured that we were not going to be talked down to for not covering it, and they all were covered more thoroughly than your post did in my opinion. Yet you couldn't help yourself, you had to talk down to shorty and to the rest of us. Your first thought when you joined the discussion should not have been, "no one thought of this, so let me post it", your first thought should have been "I wonder if anyone thought of this" and then you should have checked. If you still decided to comment you might have even quoted the posts that did make the points about having fun so as to join in or reiterate them instead of acting as if no one thought of them or as if shorty hadn't already acknowledged them prior to his posting. Worse, when you make comments such as "we're not trying to cure cancer or solve world hunger", and to "get some perspective" you demonstrate that you obviously thought you had uncovered something shorty and the the rest of us idiots involved in this discussion hadn't thought about. Well you didn't, you're wrong, and you should apologize to everyone involved in the discussion, not just me or shorty.

As far as your passive aggressive comments about me, I've been called worse and have broad shoulders. I might be new to this forum, but I'm not new to forums, or golf, or comments like yours. Unfortunately there are too many people out there like you who need to act as if they've thought of something the rest of us never considered and they are so much better than us for it. Had you just brought it up without the cancer, world hunger, and perspective comments I would have been much easier on you, but you showed your true colors when you added them.

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and an even bigger one to apologize to the group for your out of line comments. I hope in the future you check the discussion posts thoroughly before you act as if the rest of us are all thinking small and you need to enlighten us because you're are just such a better person than the rest of us are. That's crap and you were out of line.

[Lihu]

@NoMulligans

Although you may have quoted shorty, and his black and white comments as you call them, his comments were entirely within the context of the original post and the discussion that ensued. The discussion had already covered your points with regard to fun so that we all were assured that we were not going to be talked down to for not covering it, and they all were covered more thoroughly than your post did in my opinion. Yet you couldn't help yourself, you had to talk down to shorty and to the rest of us. Your first thought when you joined the discussion should not have been, "no one thought of this, so let me post it", your first thought should have been "I wonder if anyone thought of this" and then you should have checked. If you still decided to comment you might have even quoted the posts that did make the points about having fun so as to join in or reiterate them instead of acting as if no one thought of them or as if shorty hadn't already acknowledged them prior to his posting. Worse, when you make comments such as "we're not trying to cure cancer or solve world hunger", and to "get some perspective" you demonstrate that you obviously thought you had uncovered something shorty and the the rest of us idiots involved in this discussion hadn't thought about. Well you didn't, you're wrong, and you should apologize to everyone involved in the discussion, not just me or shorty.

As far as your passive aggressive comments about me, I've been called worse and have broad shoulders. I might be new to this forum, but I'm not new to forums, or golf, or comments like yours. Unfortunately there are too many people out there like you who need to act as if they've thought of something the rest of us never considered and they are so much better than us for it. Had you just brought it up without the cancer, world hunger, and perspective comments I would have been much easier on you, but you showed your true colors when you added them.

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and an even bigger one to apologize to the group for your out of line comments. I hope in the future you check the discussion posts thoroughly before you act as if the rest of us are all thinking small and you need to enlighten us because you're are just such a better person than the rest of us are. That's crap and you were out of line.

Although, I agree 100% with your content. . .

This is a forum and people should be free to discuss their opinions without being chastised for it . I think @No Mulligans was simply bringing up a point about letting his wife or whoever else play the way they can. This speeds up pace of play, which is more important to many other posters.

We should probably just get back on the topic of cheaters and self interpretation of rules that makes this game, more "interesting***" for many of us. Cheers.

***Or incensed. . .

[HonestyPolicy]

Although, I agree 100% with your content. . .

This is a forum and people should be free to discuss their opinions without being chastised for it. I think @No Mulligans was simply bringing up a point about letting his wife or whoever else play the way they can. This speeds up pace of play, which is more important to many other posters.

We should probably just get back on the topic of cheaters and self interpretation of rules that makes this game, more "interesting***" for many of us. Cheers.

***Or incensed. . .

Lihu,

Had Mr No Mulligans not talked down to us by referring to curing cancer, or solving world hunger, and telling us to get some perspective, we never would have left topic.

Fun is fun and we covered it. We already had perspective. He started it, I just gave him what he deserved.

I think this post has probably ran it's course and the majority of the group seems to agree that fun is fun but you shouldn't cheat if you are playing for bragging rights

or more. Still these low life's exist on the golf course and I guess they always will.......curing cancer, and solving world hunger aside.

[dkolo]

Lihu,

Had Mr No Mulligans not talked down to us by referring to curing cancer, or solving world hunger, and telling us to get some perspective, we never would have left topic.

Fun is fun and we covered it. We already had perspective. He started it, I just gave him what he deserved.

I think this post has probably ran it's course and the majority of the group seems to agree that fun is fun but you shouldn't cheat if you are playing for bragging rights

or more. Still these low life's exist on the golf course and I guess they always will.......curing cancer, and solving world hunger aside.

Yes, let's all move on, but in the future, please don't immediately jump to taking so aggressively to perceived slights. It's easy to misinterpret people's tone online with only written text to rely on, so give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when you're new and don't know folks here very well. TST tends to foster productive discussion and virtually everyone here should get the benefit of the doubt, so please take that into consideration.

Also, it's helpful to make sure the @ reply to someo ne attaches properly so that they see they're being mentioned. On the desktop version of the site, typing " @" and the first few letters of someone's username will bring up a drop down menu to select their name from. On the mobile versions of the site, you might need to use the " @" button on the taskbar above posts. Thank you.

[Elmer]

These people are, without exception, awful people.

You can't be a nice person and a blatant golf cheat.

People who cheat at golf are dishonest. Period. They are dishonest and deceitful in others aspects of their lives.

This person is treating you with total disrespect.

It's about character and golf reveals it in the same way that litter bugs are always nasty people. They don't care what others think and enjoy frustrating other people with their entitled attitude.

I would not go as far as to generalize and label all cheaters on the golf course as "awful People"!

Every Pro football player will tell you that they try to get away with as much as possible. So do Baseball players, but many of them to charitable work.

I think the root of the issue is this, and it is solely my opinion based on doing absolutely no research.

Most of us golfers are weekend, recreational golfers. Most of the weekend warriors learned to play golf by going out and playing casual rounds with their buddies after work or on weekends.

I assume most these golfers playing casual rounds skirt the rules, because there is not alot on the line.

This becomes a learned behavior and this behavior strokes the ego!

Some of us rise above and beyond this learned behavior and seek out how it should be, some remain comfortable knowing that they are "good" in the comfort of their casual round with their beer buddies.

Some of us can admit defeat and see it as a challenge to work on an aspect of your game.
Some refuse to spend their money to be defeated by rules they dont think is "fair"

I think when the world of "competitive or strict"  golf and "casual" golf meet it is a bruise to the ego of those who can not handle a beating, especially infornt of others.

People run red lights, cheat on their taxes, lie about being 5 minutes late to work, does this  make them horrible human beings?

Without getting into to much psycho-babble it is a character flaw that we all have, call it pride or ego, and we all try to stroke it in different ways!

[Shorty]

I would not go as far as to generalize and label all cheaters on the golf course as "awful People"!

Every Pro football player will tell you that they try to get away with as much as possible. So do Baseball players, but many of them to charitable work.

I think the root of the issue is this, and it is solely my opinion based on doing absolutely no research.

Most of us golfers are weekend, recreational golfers. Most of the weekend warriors learned to play golf by going out and playing casual rounds with their buddies after work or on weekends.

I assume most these golfers playing casual rounds skirt the rules, because there is not alot on the line.

This becomes a learned behavior and this behavior strokes the ego!

Some of us rise above and beyond this learned behavior and seek out how it should be, some remain comfortable knowing that they are "good" in the comfort of their casual round with their beer buddies.

Some of us can admit defeat and see it as a challenge to work on an aspect of your game.

Some refuse to spend their money to be defeated by rules they dont think is "fair"

I think when the world of "competitive or strict"  golf and "casual" golf meet it is a bruise to the ego of those who can not handle a beating, especially infornt of others.

People run red lights, cheat on their taxes, lie about being 5 minutes late to work, does this  make them horrible human beings?

Without getting into to much psycho-babble it is a character flaw that we all have, call it pride or ego, and we all try to stroke it in different ways!

I am not talking about little white lies and things that don't impact upon others.

I'm talking about deliberately deceiving and robbing people and then lying about it. And then getting their back up when challenged.

Show me a person who habitually throws rubbish out of the window beyond the age of 18 and I'll show you a horrible person.

Any person who mistreats animals is a horrible person.

The correlation between certain behaviours and being a nasty human is 100%.

I'm not talking about someone playing on his own and not hitting a provisional.

[HonestyPolicy]

I am not talking about little white lies and things that don't impact upon others.

I'm talking about deliberately deceiving and robbing people and then lying about it. And then getting their back up when challenged.

Show me a person who habitually throws rubbish out of the window beyond the age of 18 and I'll show you a horrible person.

Any person who mistreats animals is a horrible person.

The correlation between certain behaviours and being a nasty human is 100%.

I'm not talking about someone playing on his own and not hitting a provisional.

I'm with you shorty,

This post was originally about understanding the latitude the rules give when it comes to course conditions and more accurately how far a course can go when it comes to declaring pick, clean, and place. For those of you who are reading this thread for the first time, the answer is that a committee can declare pick, clean, and place "through the green" but that the USGA does not recommend it and conditions should be almost unplayable to declare it (in other words, there needs to be a good reason). The decision to declare pick, clean, and place is also suppose to be one that is made for a temporary amount of time, but there are some committees and courses that have made this a permanent condition causing some people to think it's OK to play this way all the time. Now again if you are not playing in competition, and you're not going to post your score, then do what ever you want, have fun. I'm not talking about fun, I'm talking about competition and the handicap manual when it comes to posting scores.

And I do not accept that "fun" is taunting your playing partners afterwards when you didn't play by the rules. If you do that then your ego clearly did play in a competition for bragging rights against your buddies and since you didn't follow the rules, now you are just being an @ss. So in this case, yes I'm not calling you a horrible person just yet, I mean using shorty's definition you didn't rob anyone, you didn't lie about it, and even though you might have gotten your back up when you were challenged, you didn't hurt anyone, so I'd just say you're an @ss.

But to shorty's point if you are playing for "something" what ever that might be, you are not the winner if you did not follow the rules, even if you rationalize that "others are doing it so I'm going to". If others are "doing it" then have a backbone and call them on it" if you saw them, but if you didn't see them then you must assume they didn't and not rationalize your way into "doing it" yourself. If you cheat in competition, regardless of if others did or not, I agree with shorty, you are a horrible person. Most times when we play in competition we tend play with our friends for a beer, or a few bucks, or something minor......so it's not the end of the world when you lose. But if you are cheating then you are cheating your friends and you'll eventually lose big if that's the case!

Unlike basketball, baseball, football, and other games, golf is one of a few games that does not have an official employed specifically and constantly there for the sole purpose of enforcing the rules. Again, have fun and play golf. Play by what ever rules you want to for your own fun. But if you brag afterwards when there was not agreement about competition and you didn't follow the rules then you are being an @ss. If you do the same in competition then yes, you are a horrible person.