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19HI-New Home Simulator-How Much Improvement?


NeedAJoker
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I have been lurking here all year and figured with all the great things I have learned, I should contribute to the forum and join up. Β I am in a semi familiarΒ spot, where I am just wrapping up my first real year of golf after a decade of playing 3-5 times a year and never breaking 100. Β This was the year I decided I was going to take golf seriously, and over the course of the season, I was able to play about 30Β rounds, hit the driving range 4-5 days mostΒ weeks, establish a handicap, take 8 lessons, and bring my scores down to where I am just on the edge of breaking 90. Β It certainly hasn't come easy, and even though I wasn't playing much in those 10 years, I had developed a ton of bad habits and breaking some of them has been a tough task, that I believe will only continue getting tougher.

This similar story hasΒ been written about on here numerous times by noob golfers in the same spot as me, early 30's(I'm 31) and just now having the time and resources to begin taking the game seriously. Β Where I expect my story to differ, is I am trying to determine the answer to the common statement I hear in my group of friends: "If I just had a golf simulator at home, I bet I could knock XX strokes off my handicap in a single off-season.."

Tonight the final(mostly) pieces of my DIY Home Simulator build arrive, and with any luck, I should have my first session ever on a simulator tonight/this weekend. Β Up to this point, the only time I have hit on anything similar to a simulator would be when buying clubs at the local golf store, but even when I did that for my new set of clubs this year, I was still so bad that I was getting 160 yd slices and almost missing the target net when testing out drivers, so I just went with what I thought I could grow into. Β As far as time on a Trackman or Flightscope, I have never hit a single ball orΒ had anything measured. Β It was a bit of a jump to decide to take 1/3 of my garage and make it into something that I had never even used before and isn't cheap, but I got so addicted to golf this year, the thought of 6-months during the winter where there isn't an open golf course for 150+ miles was too much to consider, so the sim build started 2 weeks ago and with the help of my wife, it is looking pretty damn good. Β As mentioned, the SkyTrak arrives today, and although my projector and screen arent up yet, the cage is built and I will be able to run the driving range and challenges off my iPad. Β As soon as the Sim software is launched(hopefully this month) I will complete everything with a new gaming computer and hopefully can play with some of you guys in the virtual world this winter. Β There are a few "tours" that some other forums put on so if I can even remotely hold my own, I will try to get involved there as well.

So to the main point of my post, how many strokes do you think I could cut off my game over the course of this off-season without ever stepping foot on a grass tee box? Β Now obviously this is super subjective and there really is no way of you allΒ making a truly educated guess without seeing my swing, physique, current skill level, current strengths and weaknesses, so I am just curious of peoples "fun" guesses. Β If anyone is seriously interested in my progress, I don't mind posting some videos of where I started the year, where I ended, and throughout the winter, but obviously I don't intend this to become a "Member Swing" thread. Β I have done a few trip report and forum blog type posts before for other hobbies, and I like the accountability of "followers" or others that are interested in maybe doing the same thing. Β I am not really too sure how interesting it would be, and since I have never been on a Sim before, I am not sure what I would be showing, and if for instance I play Pebble Beach this month on the Sim and shoot a 110, and then by April I shoot a 95 on there, what will that really translate to the course? Β Anything? Nothing?Β 

My Guess: This is totally a shot in the dark, but based on what I know about my game, I think I will come out and my first round in 2016 will be sub 90's, and then I think I will shoot an 85 in the first month after courses open. Β I know I am not going to be able to practice some of the most important shots such as bunker play, putting, and inconsistent lies, but currently my biggest weakness is off the tee, and approach accuracy >100yds. Β A current round for me usually has 2-3 "3 off the tee" holes, a lost ball or maybe two, and usually a few 3-putts due to lower putting skill and long distance from the hole on my approach shots. Β If I average lets just say 250 swings with my driver per week over the winter, that should be 5000+ swings, and I can't imagine with my determination that I am not able to be putting the ball in play consistently, which should be the lone difference in me breaking 90 right off the bat. Β Add in that I hopefully should have a closer dispersion on my approach shots, which should take some pressure off my putting and hopefully mask a few of my inconsistencies there before I start getting some touch back after the first few rounds of the year.

I attached a image of my handicap rounds this year, which were rounds that I either played solo, or with friends that are serious golfers. Β I make the determination before the round if I will count it or not, and try to stick to it as best I can, in efforts to get to a point next year where I am counting each and every round to really determine a true HI. Β The rounds I didn't count were all the others where I played with my normal group with whom nobody is below a 25HI, and they were all just for enjoyment with quite a few adult beverages consumed. Β I think that is one of my favorite things about golf, the fact that one day I can be out having a blast with my friends, and the next day I can be walking the front 9 by myself, playing 3 balls, and working on my game.

Other Considerations: Β I still have about another month or so where I can play, so there is a chance I may break 90 before the year is out, but I realistically will only have 3 or 4 more rounds in me this season. Β Secondly, I signed up for an indoor winter series with my instructor which I believe is 13 lessons on a Flightscope spread Nov-Apr. Β I signed up knowing the Sim was coming so I can have a second set of data to back up what I am seeing at home, and to have the ability to truly go home and work on what I learned in the lesson instead of just trying to remember it all in anticipation of the 2016 season.

Long story long, I think this could be fun to see and if anyone else is interested, just let me know so I can keep this going, or let it die off and just follow up in the spring.

Kevin

2015 Rounds.PNG

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Welcome to the forum @NeedAJoker

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Welcome @MeetaJoker. A simulator is a great tool but the key to improvement is not necessarily more practice but the right kind off practice. Unless you are monitoring your swing with video, lessons, etc, home practice may only ingrain the flaws in your swing. I recommend you start a MySwing thread and regularly tape your swing so you know exactly what you need to work on while hitting balls at home.

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I suppose since I have a few of them posted on YouTube I may as well link a few swing videos that I uploaded in June. Β Obviously since then a lot has changed, but I am shooting similar scores so it should be a fairly accurate baseline.

FO:

DTL:

Thanks,

Kevin

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Welcome @MeetaJoker. A simulator is a great tool but the key to improvement is not necessarily more practice but the right kind off practice. Unless you are monitoring your swing with video, lessons, etc, home practice may only ingrain the flaws in your swing. I recommend you start a MySwing thread and regularly tape your swing so you know exactly what you need to work on while hitting balls at home.

I replied to this a little bit ago, not sure where the post went. Β Pretty much stated that I am veryΒ cognizantΒ of this right now, and as I have been videoing my swing over the course of this season to be able to compare and contrast my swing changes, I can't see any reason why I wont continue to do that over the winter, likely even more since setting up a camera at home and taking numerous videos is much easier than at a full range.

Secondly, due to the fact that I will have those 13 lessons over the winter, hopefully if I get going down the wrong path, myΒ instructorΒ should be able to get me straightened out fairly quickly before I groove theΒ wrong swing.

Lastly, I have already noticed just based on my practice swings in the sim that I am not confident with swinging full yet. Β I know for a fact that I can't physically hit the wall or ceiling even with my longest clubs, but even knowing that, i still find myself having a bit of a "sawed off" follow through. Β I have combated this by using a Jason Day Style eye close before I hit a shot to imagine I am outside on the range, lol. Β Hopefully the need for this goes away as I get more confident indoors and I will keep a close eye on it to make sure it isn't messing with my swing long term.

Thanks for the input!

Kevin

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  • 1 month later...

I'll follow you. Β This is exactly the route in trying to take, Β but I'm trying to get down to scratch from a 10 handicap by my two year mark. Β I'm even going to purchase the skytrak. Don't have a good pro around here though so that's where you have meΒ beaten.

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On 10/2/2015, 10:49:37, NeedAJoker said:

Β 

Lastly, I have already noticed just based on my practice swings in the sim that I am not confident with swinging full yet. Β I know for a fact that I can't physically hit the wall or ceiling even with my longest clubs, but even knowing that, i still find myself having a bit of a "sawed off" follow through.Β 

That's a pitfall for practicing full swing indoors.Β Β  I have a narrow strip of hallway/living room area where I practice iron swing.Β  After a few accidents, my swing tempo slowed down and I didn't even know it.Β Β Β  Now, I practice control swings, and do anti-flipping and other swing drills instead of full swings.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

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On 10/2/2015, 10:01:39, NeedAJoker said:

So to the main point of my post, how many strokes do you think I could cut off my game over the course of this off-season without ever stepping foot on a grass tee box? Β Now obviously this is super subjective and there really is no way of you allΒ making a truly educated guess without seeing my swing, physique, current skill level, current strengths and weaknesses, so I am just curious of peoples "fun" guesses. Β If anyone is seriously interested in my progress, I don't mind posting some videos of where I started the year, where I ended, and throughout the winter, but obviously I don't intend this to become a "Member Swing" thread. Β I have done a few trip report and forum blog type posts before for other hobbies, and I like the accountability of "followers" or others that are interested in maybe doing the same thing. Β I am not really too sure how interesting it would be, and since I have never been on a Sim before, I am not sure what I would be showing, and if for instance I play Pebble Beach this month on the Sim and shoot a 110, and then by April I shoot a 95 on there, what will that really translate to the course? Β Anything? Nothing?Β 

My Guess: This is totally a shot in the dark, but based on what I know about my game, I think I will come out and my first round in 2016 will be sub 90's, and then I think I will shoot an 85 in the first month after courses open. Β I know I am not going to be able to practice some of the most important shots such as bunker play, putting, and inconsistent lies, but currently my biggest weakness is off the tee, and approach accuracy >100yds. Β A current round for me usually has 2-3 "3 off the tee" holes, a lost ball or maybe two, and usually a few 3-putts due to lower putting skill and long distance from the hole on my approach shots. Β If I average lets just say 250 swings with my driver per week over the winter, that should be 5000+ swings, and I can't imagine with my determination that I am not able to be putting the ball in play consistently, which should be the lone difference in me breaking 90 right off the bat. Β Add in that I hopefully should have a closer dispersion on my approach shots, which should take some pressure off my putting and hopefully mask a few of my inconsistencies there before I start getting some touch back after the first few rounds of the year.

Β 

Β 

I'd guess that the difference is really hitting off grass and unpredictable lies? For me, that's at least a couple strokes between hitting off a mat and grass. So, if you improve by 15 strokes on the simulator you might improve a bit less on real grass? It's really hard to say because 95 still gives you a lot of room for error, and it seems like you should be able to shoot 95 at Pebble assuming your putting and chipping are reasonable?

Shooting 85 takes a little more skill. You need to be pretty close to the greens with two more strokes remaining for par. Not sure if hitting off a mat is going to correlate directly to hitting accurately on the course. Of course, you need to be able to do that on a mat at a very minimum.

In short, I think it will help a lot to do this, but don't expect to shoot 85 your first day out. Maybe after several rounds? 85 off the bat would be pretty sweet, though.

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One thing that hitting off a flat mat doesn't duplicate is hitting off a lie where your ball is higher (a hook lie) or lower (a slice lie) than your feet. It is still easy to push the ball right from the hook lie or pull the ball left from the slice lie. You need practice hitting from them, and you don't get these anywhere but on the golf course unless you build yourself a wedge on which to stand and place the ball. It shouldn't be too extreme otherwise the ball will roll. This of course will lower the ceiling even more. Or hitting off a lie where the fairway slopes up or down. You could use this for that purpose as well.

I have 8' ceilings so I don't practice anything indoors. "You should do mirror work." Well I don't have room for that either. People don't understand. I have a very small house. If the piano wasn't in the room I'd have room to do it. But there's a piano in the room.

Julia

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Similarly, I just started playing three years ago at the age of 32 after a ten year hiatus. My first year (three months in that year due to injury) I spent all my time at the range playing only one round.Β Β The second year I only played three rounds (in about three months, again due to injury) . Each year I spent at lest 3-4 days at the range when I was healthy. All that to say that when I finally started playing regularly my biggest problem was uneven lies. It did not even have to be a bad lie, I was just so used to flat ground. Second, at the range, off of mats, I got away with fat shots. So, while you can improve with the simulator,there are other aspects you cannot practice (the lies you will face on a course. Not just bad lies either) that you will run into once you get out. Like someone said above, be intentional amd you will improve.Β 

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I was just frustrated that I figured out you were on the wrong side of the country, so I can't come over and use it too. I find simulators excellent and if you utilize them effectively, you can learn a lot about your swing and generate more power. Obvious issues is the lack of fat shots on mats can leave you with false confidence. Just run a strip of painters tape behind the behind the ball and make sure you don't catch it. I'll bet you can get 4-5 strokes off by spring if you work on form and accuracy.

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

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Hey everyone, sorry for not updating the thread, I checked back for a few weeks after posting and didn't have any comments so I figured I would let the thread die. Β I will provide a bit of an update:

I have now had the Sim setup for 6+ weeks, and have been going out there to swing almost every day a couple dozen balls as I read a tip on here, in Golf Digest, or on TV and want to emulate the feel. Β I also usually try to go out and do a full practice round (100-200 balls) every other day as my back allows. Β I still cannot believe how sore my back gets even after swinging a club 5+ daysΒ a week for the past 8 months now. Β I expected it at the beginning, but thought it would wear off as I kept swinging. Β The soreness has lightened up a bit, but it really isΒ holding me back. Β I am 31 and in pretty decent shape, but I am realizing that isn't good enough, so part of what I am going to do over the winter is work on a solid golf-oriented work-out plan to hopefully increase my flexibility and reduce my soreness. Β I am sure it 1000% has to do with swing errors that I have and the whole idea of "swing easy let the club do the work" is still foreign and I feel like I am still "hitting" the ball rather than swinging the club through. Β The last few days I read a tip regarding feeling like my shoulders are staying behind just a bit more and initially it is seeming to reduce my flip and increase my lag. Β We will see if it pans out.

Another reason for slower progress than I want is the fact that I was still golfing outdoors a bit up until last week since the weather was decent. Β It is very apparent that while the changes I have made are beneficial, they have led to an inability to have much consistency and I have yet to "groove" anything that is repeatable. Β 

Since it seems there may be a few people interested, I will roll with this thread a bit longer and provide some real updates. Β I am going to put in a session today out there to set some baselines for everyone to see so we have measurable data points through the winter. Β I will likely do 10 consecutiveΒ shots with a 9i, 6i, 4i and just for laughs I will do tenΒ with Driver as well, even though it will be embarrassing but that is what will keep me working hard at it and it is where I undoubatly will see the biggest results over the winter, especially since it will reflect the closest to "real" conditions considering the ball teed up on a mat is the same as a ball teed up on grass(not considering a possible stance slope or uneven tee box).

Thanks for the comments and I will provide a solid post today at some point.

Kevin

On 11/10/2015, 4:14:15, Valleygolfer said:

I was just frustrated that I figured out you were on the wrong side of the country, so I can't come over and use it too. I find simulators excellent and if you utilize them effectively, you can learn a lot about your swing and generate more power. Obvious issues is the lack of fat shots on mats can leave you with false confidence. Just run a strip of painters tape behind the behind the ball and make sure you don't catch it. I'll bet you can get 4-5 strokes off by spring if you work on form and accuracy.

I was VERY concerned that hitting off the mat would mask my fat shots and give me a unrealistic idea of where my game really is, but I quickly noticed with the mat I bought, it is nothing like a typical range mat where your club will still slide to decent impact. Β My mat grabs my club and even though the ball flight might stay straight, it definitely confirms the "fat" feel when the ball goes 50-60 yards shorter than a pure(by my standards) strike. Β Some of the fat shots still go 100 yards or such, when I know in real life my club would have dug and the ball wouldn't have gone more than 30 yards, but that doesn't matter much, I just know I need to remove the fat shots all together.

On 11/9/2015, 8:16:28, JKolya said:

Similarly, I just started playing three years ago at the age of 32 after a ten year hiatus. My first year (three months in that year due to injury) I spent all my time at the range playing only one round.Β Β The second year I only played three rounds (in about three months, again due to injury) . Each year I spent at lest 3-4 days at the range when I was healthy. All that to say that when I finally started playing regularly my biggest problem was uneven lies. It did not even have to be a bad lie, I was just so used to flat ground. Second, at the range, off of mats, I got away with fat shots. So, while you can improve with the simulator,there are other aspects you cannot practice (the lies you will face on a course. Not just bad lies either) that you will run into once you get out. Like someone said above, be intentional amd you will improve.Β 

As I mentioned above I have been able to get out and play a few rounds since I got the simulator and what you say about uneven lies was apparent on my very first approach shot from the rough. Nothing indoors can simulate what is happening out there, even down to the mud on the balls you just don't get indoors. Β That will be my hardest obstacle to overcome in the Spring, but I know that a more fundamental swing in those situations will be 10x better than my current swing in those same conditions, so we should have some progress. Β I hope :-)Β Β 

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This is pretty cool.Β  Good luck, @NeedAJoker.

I think I would like to do this but I don't have the resources, space, or the free time from other interests I have as I think would be required to make it worthwhile.Β 

Christian

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On 11/9/2015, 8:16:28, JKolya said:

Second, at the range, off of mats, I got away with fat shots. Β 

This is what I do (see image). That is a bread bag clip behind the club. Β Most of the time that I'm practicing from a mat, I'm using something behind the club like this to indicate if I hit fat. Β It seems to have worked as I have seen a significant decrease in the number of shots I hit fat on the course.

20150707_112749.png

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3 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

This is what I do (see image). That is a bread bag clip behind the club. Β Most of the time that I'm practicing from a mat, I'm using something behind the club like this to indicate if I hit fat. Β It seems to have worked as I have seen a significant decrease in the number of shots I hit fat on the course.

I actually really like that. Β Besides the instant feedback, it also gives me a visual of something to "miss". Β Ill try this tonight.

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Thanks for the updates. Β  Β It is interesting. Β As I'm nearing retirement, this may be something for me on the horizon.

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.Β Β  I'm Denny

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Well obviously I didn't get my update in yesterday as we had the biggest wind storm in the HISTORY of my city and 140k of us are without power.Β  As soon as I am back up and running I will get up those stats and updates.

Kevin

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  • 2 weeks later...
(edited)

OK power is back and now that Thanksgiving is gone, I had a chance to finally fire up the Sim today and get some of those baseline stats. Β I have to say, after not swinging a club the past two weeks, I feel like I lost a lot very quickly. Β I really didn't feel good at all, but that is to be expected since I don't even have my swing "grooved" at all anyways so it changes daily. During the summer I never had a single 3 day gap where I didn't practice or play in some capacity, so this 2 weeks is the longest break I have taken since I started this year.

Now that I have properly prepped you with excuses as to why these numbers are going to suck, I will post the results from tonight. Β As promised, I hit 10 consecutive shots of 9, 6 and 4 Irons, followed by 5 shots of Driver. Β Before all I hit 20-30 8i to warm up, then I hit 3 practice shots with each club before starting the 10 shots. Β This is the method I want to use moving forward to keep stats as consistent as possible. Β I am posting pictures of the shot shape for each club, followed by the stats for each club. Β Since these are my first pictures, I apologize if these are giant or tiny, and will try to adjust for the next post.

First winter lesson is on Friday, manΒ do I need it.

PS: Looking at these for the first time and it looks like my alignment of the monitor tonight might have been off a degree or two, but it wouldn't affect much. Β I will have it permanently fixed to the ground soon so I won't have alignment variability between rounds, but for now, its "close".

Capture_zpsxr73n9kd.png

Capturee_zpsrpz6vyzl.png

CaptureC_zpsf7krce8b.png

CaptureCC_zpsmoz4vy4s.png

Capturep_zpsloslm15j.png

Capturepp_zpsvmvwfqng.png

Capturet_zpsmx2hso4n.png

Capturett_zps2gwuexgz.png

Β 

This is pretty close to real life. Β Lot of inconsistency, not a ton of pure shots. Β Driver was so LOL I could only do 5 before I quit. Β You can see the declineΒ of effort from shot 1 to shot 5 with it as I was giving up. Β Haha.

Kevin

Edited by NeedAJoker
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Note:Β This thread is 2818 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic.Β Thank you!

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