Rules 24-1 question on Movable Objects

[Dave325]

Strangely enough, I had this golf dream last night (I must be playing too much golf). Anyway, I had a shot in a round that landed near the next tee just to the side of a decorative planter. The object impeded my stance. Not knowing what the rule was, I asked another golfer that was waiting to tee off at that tee. He said that the planter could not be moved. So, I played it as it lies using an awkward stance. Unfortunately, I never saw the result of the shot. 

So, I would have completely discounted the dream, but curiousity got the better part of me. I looked up the ruling of movable objects (Rule 24-1). From what I see, it appears that objects deemed as movable can be moved without penalty (meaning,my friend in the dream was wrong). I noticed that this ruling under 24-1 extends to rakes, trash, etc. However, OB markers cannot be moved. So, now I am curious if this truly means that a course decoration or implement that CAN be moved is truly considered a movable object under rule  24-1. Thoughts from the rule experts?

[Dormie1360]

Obstructions

An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice, except:

a.

Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;

b.

Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and

c.

Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course.

An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction.

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovableobstruction

 

The flower boxes should qualify as obstructions and you would be able to obtain relief under R24.

Unless the club deemed the flower boxes to be immovable, you would be able to move them.  If the club deemed them immovable, or if they were by definition immovable (see above), you would still get relief, dropping your ball within one club length from the nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole.

On the odd chance the club deemed these boxes an integral part of the course, which is unlikely, you would not get relief.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Dormie1360

[DaveP043]

What @Dormie1360 has said looks correct to me.  Regarding the OB stakes, the by definition the stakes themselves are OB, as the "line" is measured from the inside edge of the stake.  You never get to move anything that's not within the boundary of the course, so you can't move the OB stake.  One possibly exception to this may be a gate in a fence, but I haven't looked that up for sure.  If you're interested, you can check in the online version of the rules and decisions.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

What @Dormie1360 has said looks correct to me.  Regarding the OB stakes, the by definition the stakes themselves are OB, as the "line" is measured from the inside edge of the stake.  You never get to move anything that's not within the boundary of the course, so you can't move the OB stake.  One possibly exception to this may be a gate in a fence, but I haven't looked that up for sure.  If you're interested, you can check in the online version of the rules and decisions.

Actually, you can move a movable object that lies out of bounds.  You cannot take relief without penalty from an immovable object that lies out of bounds.   By Definition, an artificial object is only an obstruction if it is located in bounds.

Pertinent Decision for movable object:

Quote

24-1/3

 

Movable Artificial Object Lying Out of Bounds

Q.A movable artificial object lying out of bounds interferes with a player's stance. May the player remove it?

A.Yes. Rule 24-1 applies.

 

[DaveP043]

I should know better than to write in the Rules forum without actually checking the rules and decisions first.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I should know better than to write in the Rules forum without actually checking the rules and decisions first.

Not to worry.  The best way to learn is to keep plugging.  I don't want you to take my comments or corrections as chastisements.  All I hope to do is help you to a better understanding of the rules.  I love it when some shows a real interest in learning instead of just griping.

[DrvFrShow]

Here's some of my course's local rules:

24-2 Immovable Obstruction rule applies to anthills, flower/shrub beds. 150 yd posts, and stones in bunkers are Movable Obstructions. Relief may be taken for Immovable Obstructions close to the putting green as provided in Appendix I-6.

So anthills. I know what kind of anthills they're talking about, but it's not specified. These are the type of anthills that under 24-2:

Not this - but the lack of clarification could make it apply:

[Dave325]

4 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Here's some of my course's local rules:

24-2 Immovable Obstruction rule applies to anthills, flower/shrub beds. 150 yd posts, and stones in bunkers are Movable Obstructions. Relief may be taken for Immovable Obstructions close to the putting green as provided in Appendix I-6.

So anthills. I know what kind of anthills they're talking about, but it's not specified. These are the type of anthills that under 24-2:

Wow, that's quite a mound. That looks like there could be something really bad over there. Anyway, I am surprised that they select the 150 yard marker as immovable. On my course, these are stakes in the middle of the fairway. Does that mean that I would get a penalty for having a ball near one of these that couldn't be hit properly?

[DrvFrShow]

They're black ants in that mound. Still I wouldn't want to bother them. Those mounds are pretty common up here.

I copied the local rule from the care. There's a period. The 150 yd markers are movable as are stones in bunkers on this course. You can pull the markers without penalty. The course is county owned and they don't want any lawsuits from stones flying and hitting someone.

[Rulesman]

11 minutes ago, Dave325 said:

. Anyway, I am surprised that they select the 150 yard marker as immovable. On my course, these are stakes in the middle of the fairway. Does that mean that I would get a penalty for having a ball near one of these that couldn't be hit properly?

As they are an immovable obstruction you would get free relief under 24-2.

Nearest point of full relief plus 1 cl.

[Fourputt]

How can an anthill be an obstruction?  It isn't a man made object.

[Rulesman]

8 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

How can an anthill be an obstruction?  It isn't a man made object.

Exactly.

23/5 

Q.Is an ant hill a loose impediment?

A.Yes. An ant hill is a cast or heap made by an insect. A player is entitled to remove an ant hill under Rule 23-1.

However:-

33-8/22  

Local Rule Treating Ant Hills as Ground Under Repair

Q.An ant hill is a loose impediment and may be removed, but there is no other relief without penalty. Some ant hills are conical in shape and hard, and removal is not possible, but relief under Rule 25-1b is not available since an ant is not a burrowing animal. If such ant hills interfere with the proper playing of the game, would a Local Rule providing relief be authorized?

A.Yes. A Local Rule stating that such ant hills are to be treated as ground under repair would be justified.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Rulesman

[DrvFrShow]

1 minute ago, Fourputt said:

How can an anthill be an obstruction?  It isn't a man made object.

They made it so by local rule. People can climb on them to hit a ball, slip, fall, and get injured. If they try to hit their ball over one and it goes into one, people do stupid things like try to dig it out, and they get bit by ants. Hence, immovable object. 

[Fourputt]

2 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

They made it so by local rule. People can climb on them to hit a ball, slip, fall, and get injured. If they try to hit their ball over one and it goes into one, people do stupid things like try to dig it out, and they get bit by ants. Hence, immovable object. 

That is not an authorized local rule.  Would not be recognized by anyone playing under the rules of golf.  It could be declared an area under protection, or an area out of play for safety reasons.

[DrvFrShow]

Just now, Fourputt said:

That is not an authorized local rule.  Would not be recognized by anyone playing under the rules of golf.

How do you know?

[Fourputt]

1 minute ago, DrvFrShow said:

How do you know?

Because no course is allowed to call anything they want an obstruction.  That is a term clearly defined in the rules as an object of artificial construction.  An anthill is a natural object, and thus does not qualify.

[Rulesman]

4 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

They made it so by local rule. People can climb on them to hit a ball, slip, fall, and get injured. If they try to hit their ball over one and it goes into one, people do stupid things like try to dig it out, and they get bit by ants. Hence, immovable object. 

They used an unapproved local rule. That is not permitted. They could however have declared it to be GUR with a legal local rule. See my post above. 

[Dormie1360]

I'm pretty sure "flower/shrub beds" are not obstructions either, as they are not artificial.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Dormie1360