Hole by Hole or Total (ESC) score entry

[Rulesman]

In another thread I was asking what proportion of USGA handicap scores are entered by the two methods above.

I would be grateful for any information re the figures and/or the pros and cons.

Thanks

[Fourputt]

This is a capture of the GHIN site where I do my web posting.  Youcan see that there is no option shown for anything but just the adjusted total score.

 

 

I just probed deeper into the site and found that hole by hole is available if you set up a personal account.  That page looks like this:

If I turn on "Advanced Scoring" then I can enter stats too.

[Rulesman]

Many thanks.

Though the link to the HBH.JPG didn't work

[Golfingdad]

I enter total score only, just like @Fourputt, on a nearly identical looking webpage (of course, it's also affiliated with GHIN so that would be why). :)

(Never knew there even was a hole by hole option - and that just sounds unnecessarily tedious anyway, so I see no reason why I'd do it unless I had to)

[Dormie1360]

This is the online entry options page, under settings, for posting to a GHIN computer.  Under Score Entry Method the club/handicap committee can select Player, ESC Score, Hole by Hole, or Choice.  I'm not sure what the Player option does, as the club does not have access to this option.

At our club we use he GHIN online version which stores our database in the cloud as soon as we post.  A lot of clubs still use the older system where the program and database lies on the clubs computer.  The entry options are the same, however.

Most clubs that I am aware of, use the ESC Score method for entry.

When we run tournaments, we use TPP which is the USGA's Tournament Pairing Program.  We will often plug in hole by hole results when cards are returned in order to reduce addition errors, especially with variable best ball tournaments with handicaps.  TPP has the ability to then post all scores, (as Tournament Scores) directly to the server/cloud, posting gross scores with ESC.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dormie1360

[David in FL]

Total esc score.  

The only reason I can think for someone to enter hbh is that they don't understand esc and need the program to Make the adjustments for them.

[Dormie1360]

Hole by hole is probably more accurate, as it correctly does ESC.  I know golfers that screw that up.  That being said, ESC Score entry is a lot quicker.  Often when a foursome comes in, one guy has the card and posts his score.  Other's will just glance at the card to confirm their total and enter it.

I think if we switched to hole by hole at our club there would be a lot of grumbling.  The Choice option on my previous post gives the player the option on Total or Hole by Hole,  they can decide when posting.

I can ask my KGA contact in charge of the USGA's handicap service in Kentucky if she has information on what percentage does what.

Personally, I would probably like to do hole by hole for a summer in order to better determine the accuracy of our hole handicap allocations.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dormie1360

[Fourputt]

My men's club uses a tournament pairing program too, which necessitates hole by hole entry for tournament scoring, figuring skins, etc, but the only thing that goes to GHIN is the esc score which the software figures from the hole by hole entry.

[Dormie1360]

3 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

My men's club uses a tournament pairing program too, which necessitates hole by hole entry for tournament scoring, figuring skins, etc, but the only thing that goes to GHIN is the esc score which the software figures from the hole by hole entry.

Scoring options under TPP are Individual Total Scores, Individual Front9/Back9 Scores, and Individual Hole by Hole Scores.  Once you select one of these options, when you then go to Tournament Scoring, it will give you the required fields for entering.  Hole by Hole is the most common for tournaments, however.  Figuring out skins with a large field would be challenging to say the least. 

There are also options, for teams, variable best ball, Stableford, etc.

 

[bkuehn1952]

Golf Association of Michigan (GAM) operates our handicap reporting on behalf of the USGA.  We may report scores "hole by hole" or just the total adjusted for ESC.  If one selects "hole by hole" one may also capture data like FIR, GIR, etc...

I personally think the "hole by hole" is better since probably in excess of 50% of the handicapped golfing public has no idea how to how to adjust their scores.

[Rulesman]

7 hours ago, Dormie1360 said:

I can ask my KGA contact in charge of the USGA's handicap service in Kentucky if she has information on what percentage does what.

Thanks John, that would be helpful. 

[DaveP043]

I can't even guess a percentage.  I do know that Ghin has the capability to require hole-by-hole entry.  A few years back my home club did that for a number of regular players, in order to evaluate the handicap order for the scorecard.  The USGA suggests that strokes be allocated where there's the greatest difference between low-handicap players and mid-handicap players, and this is the way that data is gathered.  Other than that one season, we always enter total score, after adjusting for ESC.

[Club Rat]

Years ago, I would assist entering scores played in our Mens Game into the online handicap service at our club. We would review every card and make ESC which was a tedious task.

At that point, we started a program to inform golfers regarding the ESC method used and its importance. I recall many members were not even aware of the max score and thus the awareness program was effective.

I then wrote ESC into my Excel program we used and it showed players the correct adjusted score after each round.

Here's a funny story, our club for years used the online service which billed the club. What they didn't realize, they were paying fees for members who were longer members but no one removed them from the data base until I pointed out to our head pro of the situation. At $30 per player, the cost was staggering to management and quickly the oversight was corrected. I'm guessing this went on for several years.

[fr0sty]

CDGA (Chicago Distric Golf Association) only takes ESC.

[Rulesman]

Many thanks to you all.

[Dormie1360]

On 1/16/2016 at 2:56 AM, Rulesman said:

Thanks John, that would be helpful. 

Monday was a holiday, I forgot to call yesterday, and the KGA is closed today because of snow.    I'll call tomorrow and see what I can find out if you are still interested.

Also, looking at the USGA's smart phone GHIN app, it's ESC posting only.

[Rulesman]

Please do John

[Fourputt]

It's beginning to look as if hole by hole reporting is rarely done, even when the option is available.  I had read posts sometime previously from players who did report that way on the computers at the clubhouse, but so far whoever they were haven't shown up here for this thread.  

Might have been a reasonable idea to have posted a simple yes or no poll.  That way you'd get a few more responses from members who don't feel inspired to actually post on the thread.