AJGA Rules Suck

[SavvySwede]

2 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Yes yes, this is obvious stuff (but thanks for the input). I'm just saying after only 4 years of playing, she can still use some reminders in this difficult game. How well did you play after 4 years?

When you start teaching a kid how to ride a bike, do you just throw them on and tell them to go for it, knowing that falling will build character and teach them to not do that, or do you run along holding the seat for the first bunch of times?

Playing for 4 years and first learning how to ride a bike aren't exactly equivalent time frames of learning a skill. Learning golf also doesn't usually pose any injury for the participant.

 

 

[dak4n6]

4 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Playing for 4 years and first learning how to ride a bike aren't exactly equivalent time frames of learning a skill. Learning golf also doesn't usually pose any injury for the participant

Yes, the time frame for the learning curve is not equivalent. I would estimate that 4 yrs of playing a hard game equals about 3 first times out trying to ride a bike. Whatever, the analogy is obviously not perfect, but you know what I'm saying. Cmon, how good are most golfers in their 4th year of playing?

OK, I get what y'all are saying. I understand. I apologize, but I'm going to bow out now, as the dead horse is getting tired of the beating.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Yes yes, this is obvious stuff (but thanks for the input). I'm just saying after only 4 years of playing, she can still use some reminders in this difficult game. How well did you play after 4 years?

After three years I'd been voted all-county, won the EDGA Junior Stroke play, and won our third consecutive team title. I qualified for States and finished in the top three there, too.

Anyway, length of time playing isn't super relevant. Talk with her outside of the tournament play about how to handle things.

2 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

When you start teaching a kid how to ride a bike, do you just throw them on and tell them to go for it, knowing that falling will build character and teach them to not do that, or do you run along holding the seat for the first bunch of times?

Please don't tell her to accelerate through her putts. Teach her the right way.

It's OT for this thread so that's all I'll say there.

[David in FL]

42 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

Accelerate through the ball with good tempo no matter what kind of shot you have.

That'll be $50. You're welcome

(Actually I have to remind her that all the time with chips and putts)

 

Thanks.  But it might be better to teach the kids, off the course, how to manage their own game on the course.  Now there's a lesson that will see them through a lifetime...  

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, dak4n6 said:

Accelerate through the ball with good tempo no matter what kind of shot you have.

That'll be $50. You're welcome

(Actually I have to remind her that all the time with chips and putts)

 

@iacas beat me to it, but you don't want to accelerate through putts. HERE is the thread that explains why.

[dak4n6]

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

After three years I'd been voted all-county, won the EDGA Junior Stroke play, and won our third consecutive team title. I qualified for States and finished in the top three there, too.

Anyway, length of time playing isn't super relevant. Talk with her outside of the tournament play about how to handle things.

Please don't tell her to accelerate through her putts. Teach her the right way.

It's OT for this thread so that's all I'll say there.

OK I will do that

33 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Thanks.  But it might be better to teach the kids, off the course, how to manage their own game on the course.  Now there's a lesson that will see them through a lifetime...  

OK I will do that

11 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

@iacas beat me to it, but you don't want to accelerate through putts. HERE is the thread that explains why.

OK I will do that

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

But they might, just might, get up to tournament golf if you give them a chance at the beginning. My daughter generally strikes the ball well (esp her driver - she wows adults all the time), however, this past year was her first playing individual tournaments, and a few times she shot scores that were very high for her and came off the course saying 'I suck'. I guess the pressure got to her. So she should just quit, and forego the hopes of at least a partial scholarship? 

Everyone who plays golf has those "I suck" days.  Part of golf, and not only in the "learning" stage, is dealing with those bad days and coming back for more.  It doesn't sound like she's ready to quit golf, so to me it sounds like she's on the right path.  

[Parker0065]

I don't reply much here to often anymore, just do some occasional grazing, but this topic definitely raised my attention.

My son is at the end of his junior tournament playing career having played State and Regional Junior PGA events over the past 8 years from age 10 to 18. He qualified for the PGA State Championship this coming Spring and then it's a summer golf internship he has worked at the past couple years with his teaching pro and preparing for college golf in the fall.

 

One of the best things I did was to make a decision to limit my involvement in my son's development. When he was 5 years old and showed a great interest in the game I handed him over to his current teaching pro that he's been with for the past 13 years and interns with in the summer.

Many of my friends have asked over the years why I didn't teach him everything about the game on my own. There's two big reasons for this.

1) Although I can play a little bit and have hovered around +/- scratch since my junior golf days, I am not nor have I ever been, nor do I have the desire to be an instructor/teacher. Have I tried to help my son when it's just him and I on the range? Absolutely! But I don't know how many times over the years my son has gotten a little off track and we go to his instructor who fixes him in 5 minutes or less. Then his instructor looks at me and says gee I figured you would have told him that. Then I would always say, I did but you have a better way of explaining it and he just listens to you better, lol!

2) This is the big one! This is the one so many parents struggle with! Do Not under any circumstances become "EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO YOUR CHILD'S GOLF GAME"!!! Oh boy, everyone claims they never do that but after 8 years of junior tournament golf it happens a lot more than you would ever imagine. Now the truth is most parents handle themselves pretty well and limit the emotions in a somewhat reasonable fashion. Simple things like I would ask another parent how their son played that day and if it wasn't good there would always be that hint of disappointment in their voice but most didn't go crazy or jump on their kids about it.

  But there were those rare few cases that ended in sad train wrecks. One particular boy who's father happened to be a teaching pro(and taught his son) became a raging alcoholic by his senior year and hated golf. The kid showed signs of real promise from ages 10-15, but his teaching pro father just never gave him any space and it was golf 24/7. The kid was completely burned out and turned to heavy drinking/drugs by age 18. Another case involved a father and his daughter where he would throw tirades at her on the range, during practice rounds, and also in tournaments. He was eventually "BAND FOR LIFE" from the PGA Junior tour in our area for his tirades. Can you imagine that? Your so crazy that all you can do is drop your kid off in the parking lot and your not allowed to follow or walk the golf course because you've been band for life because of your actions towards your own child. The guy was a complete hot head psychopath and it's no surprise that his daughter completely gave up the game at age 16 after playing since she was 10. Unfortunately they were members at the same course as my son and I and we saw and could hear many of his antics even in casual rounds. He always wanted to play practice rounds with my son and I but I refused. I didn't want my son anywhere near that kind of behavior and who wants to play with a crazy person to begin with!    

 

Those were a couple sad extreme cases but I can't hammer home the point of not getting emotionally involved in your kids golf game enough! Wanting to be there to give constant advice or caddie for them is about the worst idea in the world. The hard truth is not every kid is going to excel in the game. Not every kid is going to play college golf or win junior tournaments. We as parents want so badly for our kids to be successful and we want to help any way we can. But sometimes the absolute best thing we can do is just give them a hug and tell them tomorrow is a new day! There are other better ways to be involved with your kids and still give them space to grow and learn on their own. For my son, I was more or less his sounding board and stats keeper "away from the golf course"!!!!!  It sounds a little cheesy but the last few years in the off season my son and I would sit down in my home office and go over his stats and tournament scores and have a open two way discussion on what he thought he needed to improve for the next year. That's about as involved as I've let myself get because I'm just as guilty as any other human being in that if I allow myself to get too involved I will become emotionally attached. It's his golf game, not mine and I've tried hard to give him the space and even more important is give him the opportunity to TAKE OWNERSHIP OF HIS GOLF GAME!!!!! If your constantly giving your kid advice on the course(club selection/wind,,,) they are never going to learn how to play the game. Even more important is they are never going to build any real confidence in themselves or their game with the parent around giving their so called gold nuggets of advice all day long. 

 

OK I've ranted on long enough, and this was not directed at anyone in particular in this thread. You really want to get your kid involved in the game and excel as far as they can? Find a good junior instructor, have good 2 way communication about their game(away from the golf course), and finally just give them a hug and buy them some ice cream when they have a rough tournament round! It's simply all about staying positive, being there for them when they need you, and not becoming emotionally attached to their golf!!!!

 

As far as the original OP not liking the AJGA rules. If your already in college many have "club teams" and every college team has open tryouts. The last thing you need is to play competitive golf against a bunch of high school kids. You just need to get better if you want to make the college team. It just goes back to what I said before about not everyone is going to get to play as you grow up and move to the next level! Also there are other USGA and Regional Amateur events you can try to qualify for so it's not like you've been completely locked out of any and all competitions. Sorry but your request is a complete Non-Issue!!!

 

[dak4n6]

That was great insight Parker.

Just want to add, my daughter has 2 coaches (she might be transitioning to the 2nd one), and I have no intent of replacing them, and I never get 'on' her. Just reminding her 'wind is right to left', 'pay attention to the speed of this one', 'the ball is sitting down a little', 'the ball is above your feet'.  

She has ADD, and needs those reminders. that's all. that's all.

[Pretzel]

3 hours ago, Parker0065 said:

As far as the original OP not liking the AJGA rules. If your already in college many have "club teams" and every college team has open tryouts. The last thing you need is to play competitive golf against a bunch of high school kids. You just need to get better if you want to make the college team. It just goes back to what I said before about not everyone is going to get to play as you grow up and move to the next level! Also there are other USGA and Regional Amateur events you can try to qualify for so it's not like you've been completely locked out of any and all competitions. Sorry but your request is a complete Non-Issue!!!

It is not a complete non-issue like you say:

- There is no club golf at my university

- There are only tryouts at my university if someone shows promise in outside tournaments (with AJGA tournaments being the most closely followed by the coaching staff)

- Playing against a "bunch of high school kids" is how players get recruited for college golf in the first place

- You're right that I need to get better, and competing against the best of the best in the AJGA would allow me to more rapidly advance my golf game

- There are other USGA and regional amateur tournaments to qualify for, though many of them have a higher cost in terms of either travel or entrance fees than specific AJGA events I am interested in

- While you're right that not everyone is going to get to play, it doesn't make sense to arbitrarily lock junior golfers out of the "American Junior Golf Tour" based on their level of academic progress. I am only 17 years old, meaning I am still a junior golfer. The fact that only junior golfers who fit their arbitrary criteria can play in the AJGA is just plain silly.

Like I said, the AJGA is not a non-issue. It's the most effective, in terms of likelihood a coach will see your score and from a cost perspective, method for me to get noticed by the coaching staff at my current university so that I may try out for the team. To you, my request may not seem like much (since from your perspective I obviously am just not good enough and ought to give up at this point, or just magically get better by playing golf against a "bunch of high school kids" since that is my only real option at this point) but to me it is something that would allow me to continue to pursue my dream of playing at the collegiate level by testing myself against the best of the best at my age. I get that you may not see this as a big deal, but to me it is a huge deal.

[phillyk]

Not trying to be the smart-ass, but if you're so intent on playing college golf, then find a school that will let you on their team.  As a 1HC you should be able to make most DII schools and all DIII schools (I think).  If playing golf is your number one priority, then follow that to a school where you can compete.

[Pretzel]

3 hours ago, phillyk said:

Not trying to be the smart-ass, but if you're so intent on playing college golf, then find a school that will let you on their team.  As a 1HC you should be able to make most DII schools and all DIII schools (I think).  If playing golf is your number one priority, then follow that to a school where you can compete.

It's not my number one priority, which is the main conflict. I won't put it ahead of achieving the academic success I would like to have, which is why I turned down DII schools to go here instead. 

If I don't make the team, then I guess that's how it goes and I'll look to start a club golf team at this college. I would like to make the team though, so I'm going to work to do that. It will just take more effort to get the attention of the coaches and a tryout is all. Golf is something I really enjoy, but at the same time it isn't worth sacrificing a solid career for since none of the schools that contacted me for golf had electrical engineering programs. 

[dak4n6]

On 2/3/2016 at 9:59 PM, iacas said:

Please don't tell her to accelerate through her putts. Teach her the right way

Actually, at the start of the putting swing, the velocity v = 0, right?

At the moment of contact, the putter head has a certain velocity v, right? Let's call the difference between the initial velocity (0) and the velocity at contact 'dv'.

This occurred over some period of time, right? We'll call that period of time 'dt'.

Well, according to Newton, the difference in velocity over the difference in time, dv/dt = a, or acceleration.

It's kind of hard to argue with physics, eh?

[natureboy]

 

Actually, at the start of the putting swing, the velocity v = 0, right?

At the moment of contact, the putter head has a certain velocity v, right? Let's call the difference between the initial velocity (0) and the velocity at contact 'dv'.

This occurred over some period of time, right? We'll call that period of time 'dt'.

Well, according to Newton, the difference in velocity over the difference in time, dv/dt = a, or acceleration.

It's kind of hard to argue with physics, eh?

Read the putting thread posted. The idea is to defer to the reliably constant acceleration provided by gravity (physics), and not to add extra less reliable acceleration (especially through the ball) from muscle torque.

Endpoint = top of putting backswing & bottom of arc is ~ just before impact.

Edited February 5, 2016 by natureboy

[hcopenhagenh]

I have read through this entire thread and joined this site specifically for this thread.  Let me give you some background.

 

I have a 16 year old daughter that has been playing golf for 3.5 years. She has been playing tournament golf for 3 year.  She shot 110 108 in her first tournament and within 6 months was shooting mid to low 80's and was a huge contributor to her State Final high school team.  Just three years playing tournament golf and she holds a 0.3 handicap, is a highly ranked junior golfer, and has several D1 schools recruiting her.  She has played in 3 consecutive state high school tournaments.  She is also our club champion shooting a 72 73, which is not a big deal at all because they play from such short a distance.  Should have been under par, but it was a really windy day.  

I say all that because the best thing that happened to her is that I wasn't able to caddie.  She learned to play the game on her own.  She learned to scramble from the get go and learned that you need to spend time on the putting greens.  She learned that the game was 100 yards and on in.  Had I caddied she would have never learned the game and never would have been as good as she is today.  

That isn't to say I haven't caddied for her because I have, but only in USGA or FSGA Amateur events.  It is for moral support only, get a yardage, rake a bunker, clean a club, etc.  

 

I have a 9 year old son that is a very good junior golfer (has played in the World Championships).  We started off with US Kids which put on decent events.  I was excited to get caddie although I did hear of horror stories.  First tournament we played in we stood on the green on hole one.  Two parents were adjacent to us on hole 8 caddying for their kids.  We hear yelling, cursing, and then one of the parents chasing the other.  I held me head down to the ground in shame, shaking my head, thinking "What did I get us into?".  Fortunately, that was the only fight I have seen.

It gets tiresome seeing Daddy Caddies tee up the ball for their kid, line them up to hit the shot, line them up to putt.  My caddying duties go as far as pulling a club, making a suggestion, raking a bunker, cleaning a club, and being there for moral support.  Too many of these kids can't play when they have to do it on their own because Daddy does it all for them.  My kid still beats them and I don't really do anything but watch.

I can't wait until the day comes when he CAN'T have a caddie any more.  More than anything else, I hate being around the other parents caddying for their children.  Parents want their kids to be perfect so a 4 and a half hour round becomes 6 hour rounds.  You then have to hear them coach their child after a bad shot.  You have to hear the parents ask "Why did you just do that."  It becomes a huge nuisance for the other players in the round by have just one caddie do this stuff.

In my opinion, if a 15 year old needs a caddie for a junior tournament then they shouldn't be playing in junior tournaments.

[DrvFrShow]

Let me summarize the problem that Pretzel is having:

Pretzel's problem is not his golf. It's that he was too smart for his own britches. He should have been dumber and stayed in high school another year, been bored to death just so he could have played junior golf this season and gotten recruited by a Div 1 college. Instead he chose to graduate early and attend college to keep his mind stimulated. He is still 17 years old. The same age as his high school class. He is simply a year ahead of them academically and is being punished for that. 

He feels the AJGA rules should be age based, not academically based. 

By these same rules, while rare you could have someone who is 15 years old, exceptionally bright and complete their high school requirements. This person also plays junior golf. He decides to accept an academic scholarship to attend Xxxxxx University, but he has not played long enough or is good enough yet to play golf on the University's golf team, yet he would like to compete against people his own age. He is still physically a junior golfer but by AJGA rules he cannot play in AJGA tournaments because he's too smart and is now attending University where he is not going to be noticed by the team to play. 

 

[Pretzel]

8 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Let me summarize the problem that Pretzel is having:

Pretzel's problem is not his golf. It's that he was too smart for his own britches. He should have been dumber and stayed in high school another year, been bored to death just so he could have played junior golf this season and gotten recruited by a Div 1 college. Instead he chose to graduate early and attend college to keep his mind stimulated. He is still 17 years old. The same age as his high school class. He is simply a year ahead of them academically and is being punished for that. 

He feels the AJGA rules should be age based, not academically based. 

By these same rules, while rare you could have someone who is 15 years old, exceptionally bright and complete their high school requirements. This person also plays junior golf. He decides to accept an academic scholarship to attend Xxxxxx University, but he has not played long enough or is good enough yet to play golf on the University's golf team, yet he would like to compete against people his own age. He is still physically a junior golfer but by AJGA rules he cannot play in AJGA tournaments because he's too smart and is now attending University where he is not going to be noticed by the team to play. 

 

Well written, that is exactly what I was trying to convey, though I failed to do so as eloquently as you.

Coincidentally, there was one person at my high school who graduated at 14 and then moved on to the same university I am currently attending. She wasn't a golfer though. 

[DrvFrShow]

So from a "rules are guidelines" person, if you want to play in AJGA tournaments, what you need to do is get a name of someone who can do something within the organization, and write a letter petitioning them for an individual waiver of the rule until your high school class graduates.

You might also use the 15 year old as an example for a case to consider changing the rule to be based upon ones high school graduating class, not one's academic status, with the exception that if one plays on an NCAA team one is disqualified from participating in AJGA events.

Does this sound like a good plan to you?