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Dangerous or Not? Your Opinion Please


bkuehn1952
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The Rules of Golf Allow Relief From Dangerous Situations - Do You Grant Relief or Not?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. In these situations, do you give a competitor relief?

    • His ball rests in some dense long grass. A large black snake can be seen close by.
      26
    • His ball rests in some dense long grass. A large black snake slithered into the area but is not readily visible.
      18
    • A chained dog's chain allows it to reach a ball in play. The large dog is barking furiously and stands over his ball, which is in a divot hole
      29
    • Same situation as #3 but the dog is a miniature schnauzer
      20
    • Same situation as #4 but he has a strong phobia of all dogs from having been attacked as a child.
      20
    • He is deathly allergic to bee stings. His ball has rolled into an area of grassland where bees are actively collecting pollen and nectar from wild flowers
      24
    • A non-nesting large Canada goose is guarding an area where his ball has rolled into a divot hole. The goose hisses and prepares to attack on approach
      17


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Under the Rules of Golf, one is granted free relief from dangerous situations.  The general guidance is that commonly encountered situations do not fall into the dangerous category (poison ivy, cacti, etc...).  Poisonous snakes and alligators are the two examples of dangerous animals along with bee/wasp nests.

Each of us has to decide what is too dangerous versus acceptable risk in light of the fact that we are playing a game.  Still, a line has to be drawn somewhere to protect the field.

 

In the examples, I would probably readily give relief for #1, #3 and #7.  The others I might take a harder line.  How about everyone else?

Brian Kuehn

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1, 3, and 4.  But only if the dogs can actually reach the ball.  All dogs can be dangerous.   I have trouble imagining the situation where a dog would be tethered so he could actually get to a ball on the golf course, but in that case I'd definitely alert the pro shop as it would be something for them to address immediately with the owner.

The goose is easily run off, and yep, I'm very familiar with their territorial behavior. Kudos for correctly identifying it as a Canada goose though, not the oft used and incorrect Canadian....   :beer:

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I only voted for relief from the bees.

All other situations could change in a short period of time, ie; dogs settle down leave the scene, snakes will usually leave if they haven't already attacked, a goose can be easily run off for a few moments for a player to hit and move on.

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One I can give relief to from here in my study is the bee allergy.  Even that is tricky since if there are bees in the field, then they are likely all around and I'd advise him to just go home.  

As for the dogs, yes they probably get relief except for the phobia guy, but I'd have to see the situation to assure myself of such a case.  That said I've never seen a dog chained that close to a course where the ball would still be in bounds.

The goose, hell no.  The snake - it depends on what kind of snake.  

Rick

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Just the Bees if they are of the africanized honey bee bunch. (aka "killer bees") Any of the other examples can be handled and/or planned for.

Edited by Patch

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No relief from geese for sure. They're all hiss and no bite, and they run when you puff yourself up and chase after them with a club.

I have encountered a situation with a rattlesnake before though, when I played a tournament in Pueblo. It found the shade under my golf bag pleasant while I was putting, meaning I had to wait until the mood to leave struck it before I could safely grab my bag. A player in the group behind me had the thing on his putting line and a very brave caddy who was willing to push it off his line with a bunker rake.

If you can see the snake nearby I say no relief (depending on how venomous/angry it is), but if it's not visible I would give relief so that they didn't need to risk it to go to their ball.

The bee stings can be deadly to someone who is allergic, which I would consider to be a very dangerous scenario.

Dogs can be dangerous, but the larger issue there is that the dog is chained such that they're allowed on the golf course. I feel like this scenario wouldn't happen unless you hit it into a backyard, in which case you're already OB.

4 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

In the examples, I would probably readily give relief for #1, #3 and #7.  The others I might take a harder line.  How about everyone else?

Why would you give relief for a goose? Geese are the least dangerous scenario of the ones mentioned up there, because they're easily fended off or discouraged without them ever touching you. The biggest danger from them, if you know how to deal with one, is that you might end up tracking goose grease into the pro shop and incur someone's wrath.

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Interesting what you are saying about geese - about which I know nothing.  In a similar situation with a swan looking to go on the attack, I would grant/take relief.   A swan can break bones. 

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16 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Why would you give relief for a goose? 

Based on one scenario where a single goose literally would not let a player near his golf bag. Short of trying to hurt or kill the goose, it would not retreat.  There was no way anyone was going to make a stroke near that goose unless it was an iron to the head.

Brian Kuehn

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All of them.

Geese are protected animals and you cannot attack the geese. If the goose won't let you near your ball, you cannot attack it with your 7 iron. If you injure the goose, while you may be within the rules of golf, you will be paying a fine to the Department of Fish and Game. I'm sorry. 

Miniature Schnauzers can bite, and their bite can require stitches. 

#5 is the SAME situation except the person also has a fear of dogs. The fear of dogs is irrelevant. The fact that the dog is standing over the ball and threatening is relevant. 

The snake in the vicinity, definitely. I don't know anything about what snakes are what, but it could be a water moccasin depending upon where you are. Was it a copperhead? Or a harmless rat snake? Do you want to take a chance?

Julia

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I agree with @DrvFrShow.  All of them.

-Matt-

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Note that in the spring, that you don't always hear a rattlesnake buzz. Copperheads vary in color and are usually kind of coppery, but can be dark gray. In Australia there is a black variety. 

Now the USGA rules technically only cover "live rattlesnakes" and "bees nests" but seriously.... all of the above situations are dangerous situations. One could be an ass about them and say that you get relief from none of them. This would leave the following solutions:

For the dogs: Since the ball is lying in a divot we have to assume that the ball is in bounds. However, for sadistic reasons, the dog owners decided to put a chain on the dogs that was too long. You could use your cell phone and contact Animal Control and hold up play on the course while the animal situation was resolved. This should take no more than an hour or two since the animal is confined to a yard. I seriously doubt that the animal would let you in the yard to notify the owner. I figure that the owner would have come out to see what the ruckus was about and rectified the situation, but apparently they did not. So Animal Control it is. It is obvious that hitting the ball from where it lies could result in a dog bite - hence dangerous. There is no reasonable solution covered under the rules.

For the snake: You get to deal with the problem since it isn't a rattlesnake and hope for the best. Yet it could still be a venomous snake depending upon where you live. Hence dangerous.

For the bees: tough noogies since they're pollinating and there is no nest in the immediate area, and hope that you don't get stung. 

For the goose: You get to hold up play on the course until the goose decides that it's bored and moves on. If you can't frighten it away without harming it, sorry, that's the law. If the goose for some unknown reason decides not to move on, you get to contact Animal Control again and wait another hour or two. This one has no reasonable solution. 

Should one not want to wait for the authorities to arrive to resolve the situations, because these are indeed dangerous situations, one should proceed under Rule 3-3. This would involve announcing to the competitor the intent to play two balls 1) proceeding as if they were dangerous situations; 2) replaying your shot with a second ball as a stroke and distance penalty. Then reporting the situation to the committee at the end of the round before turning in the scorecard and letting them decide the outcome. 

This would be the correct solution in stroke play.

In match play, the player would have to use one of the remedies to continue with their original ball or concede the hole. 

Julia

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3 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

For the goose: You get to hold up play on the course until the goose decides that it's bored and moves on. If you can't frighten it away without harming it, sorry, that's the law. If the goose for some unknown reason decides not to move on, you get to contact Animal Control again and wait another hour or two. This one has no reasonable solution. 

Or, you can just poke it with your club until it walks away. That's not illegal for you to do, and the goose isn't going to jump your or anything. It'll hiss a lot at you, but it won't attack if you make yourself look big and keep gently poking it to herd it away, then have a playing partner keep them away from you while you swing.

Going nuts and wrapping a 7-iron around the goose's neck is illegal. Encouraging it to be elsewhere is not, and if the goose for some reason does attack you are allowed to hit back.

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2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Or, you can just poke it with your club until it walks away. That's not illegal for you to do, and the goose isn't going to jump your or anything. It'll hiss a lot at you, but it won't attack if you make yourself look big and keep gently poking it to herd it away, then have a playing partner keep them away from you while you swing.

Going nuts and wrapping a 7-iron around the goose's neck is illegal. Encouraging it to be elsewhere is not, and if the goose for some reason does attack you are allowed to hit back.

If it attacks you because you are instigating it I'm sure you would still be held liable for hurting it in any way.

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Eyad

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It's a game of golf. It is not for me to judge if someone is afraid of a little dog. Point (to me) is: if you really feel afraid, oncomfortable, scared: take a relief!! I don't mind!!Snake's, gators, bees, wasps, spiders whatever creepy animals: that goes without saying.

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11 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

I agree with @DrvFrShow.  All of them.

I agree on relief to all of them. Hey, it's a game. I don't want to see anyone hurt or injured. Last year, a friend I know ducked into the woods on the 8th hole and was attacked by bees. That ended his round for the day.

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Dave

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14 hours ago, Pretzel said:

No relief from geese for sure. They're all hiss and no bite, and they run when you puff yourself up and chase after them with a club.

 

Just a note for clarification. A goose's wing is strong enough to break a human's arm. I agree that you can shoo them, but they are formidable creatures.

Scott

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Note: This thread is 2951 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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