What do you consider the most stupid rule in golf?

[Alex B]

I agreed with this as well, but I was witness to an odd occurrence this past summer where I felt the DQ was just and appropriate.

What kind of occurrence was this?

About the stroke-and-distance rule: Mark Frost describes in his book The Greatest Game Ever Played that the penalty used to only be distance (meaning that hitting a ball out-of-bounds would only cost you a stroke).

[bca42]

What kind of occurrence was this?

It's too detailed a situation to provide in this forum (typing), but essentially we caught a guy trying to change his team's score on the card after he'd seen the leaderboard in the clubhouse. We asked him about the messy/scratched out scores on the card, he played dumb. We asked the guy on his team separately who was the one who's score was changed (by the first guy who was the score keeper) and he told the truth that his score on those holes was the one that had been scratched out (replaced with a better number).

Lots of discussion and time wasted in my opinion then ensued for no reason other than aggravation and argument sake. If we followed this rule, it would have been simple: DQ and goodbye! But I understand the aversion to the rule in genuine error situations that happen in life and golf.

[Bluenoser67]

I always hated the one that if the ball moves from an outside agency (wind) and you have addressed the ball or grounded the club its a one stroke penalty. I think thats why Jack never grounded his club.

[TourSpoon]

I would like the embedded ball rule to extend beyond the "closely mown areas" and cover "tee to green" with the exception of hazards. The PGA Tour extends a local rule which allows tour players to do just that while the European Tour does not. Most of the people I play with assume it is through the green.

The next one on my list would be stroke and distance on an OB shot. My solution would be to make it a distance only penalty (hitting two off the tee instead of three). The other option that I am not crazy about would be to treat OB as a hazard. It would speed up the game and maybe encourage amatuers to follow the rule to the letter. I only see serious players following this rule anyway. While it may encourage a tour player to become more aggresive, I don't see too many of them hitting it OB that often enough for this to really lower tour scores.

[neudi]

The absolutely dumbest rule in golf is not being able to repair spike marks on the green period.

[rstyle]

Wow! I had forgotten some of the others! You are all correct:
1) Spike marks on the green
2) Out of bounds - stroke and distance
3) The divot rule still aggravates me. In Florida we sand over and not replace the divot. A lot of golfers do not do it (use the sand-fertilizer). Why should you play off an awful deep divot a previous player made? Hardpan and mud on the ball are natural occurrences. Divots are not. Don't think that having two great players on a playoff hole playing for a million dollars and one lands on a divot is a fair thing.

[Craig Mac]

The absolutely dumbest rule in golf is not being able to repair spike marks on the green period.

I agree also. You can fix divots, repair old hole locations, remove loose impediments, put a golf ball in play in your hand, but not fix spike marks?

[sboardz006]

stroke and distance

or cleat marks

[Bignose]

Grounding your club in a hazard - two stroke penalty. It's your club...the hazard is part of the environment...so what's the problem?

I'm surprised no one addressed this in the thread. The problem is that by grounding your club in a sand trap, you can test the consistency and wetness and fluffiness of the sand. You gain information the rulemakers have decided you should only learn by hitting the ball -- and a little by taking your stance.

Now, there is a dumb part of this rule, too. I specifically mentioned sand above, but the rule talks only about hazards, which of course, also mean water hazards. And, should your club accidentally touch the surface of the water, that's grounding it even though it isn't the ground, and of course the two stroke penalty. But, water is water -- there is not fluffiness or consistency or wetness of water -- even across the wide range of temperatures playable for golf, the properties of water change only a tiny, tiny, minuscule amount. Unless the water is really slush or icy, there is no consistency to water -- so by "grounding" the club in water, there is no additional information to be gathered.

this happens around this time of year when it gets really windy, and greens are fast or sloped the way the wind is blowing and the ball moves by the wind after u adress it, its a stroke penalty.

The rules give you a loophole for this one. Everywhere except in a hazard, you haven't taken your address until you ground your club. That means, you can stand there a long time and let the wind blow your ball so long as you haven't grounded your club. As soon as you have grounded your club, it is presumed that your action has moved the ball. Whether the movement is caused by an earthquake or rabid wildebeest or wind after that point -- ground your club and it presumed to be your fault. Don't ground the club and it is not presumed to be your fault. Now, if the ball should move, it can still be ruled to have been your fault, but it is not presumed to be your fault until you've grounded you club.

So, if you are playing on a windy day and you are on slick greens, I'd recommend practicing hovering your putter. If it happens to you a lot you'll either learn to hover the putter or accept those penalty strokes. But, this is a case where the rule is written to be strict one way, but they also give you an out. As bluenoser pointed out, this was just an additional bonus to the way Jack Nicklaus addressed the ball (I think he felt it reduced the tension in his arms, not primarily because of the grounding rule -- that was an added bonus).

I think the 14 club rule is obsolete.The way they build new courses with deep rough 7500 yards large bunkers you should be able to carry what ever you feel you need.

I actually would like to see this rule go the other way. Maybe limit the pros to 10 clubs and then you won't have to trick up the courses to 7500 yards and 6 inch rough. Bring back some classic course like Augusta National back when there was no rough -- er, I mean second cut.

------------------------- My vote for the original question would be stroke and distance for OB as well. The Palmer quote sums up the situation perfectly, in my mind. The USGA actually does suggest playing OB like a lateral water hazard if the course is busy and/or you are a high handicapper. Obviously, if the course is really busy, you should hit a provisional if there is any doubt at all. If the penalty was just distance, the provisional system would still be played exactly the same way, just one less stroke. I think that the same penalty, distance only, should be for lost balls, too. In many ways, we hackers at the muni aren't playing the same game as the pros -- they almost never lose a ball because of forward spotters. Someone always as a good look where it went into the 5 inch rough, whereas we can easily lose it in 2 inches if the grass lays just right. I think that there should be a leaf rule of some kind, too. In the fall, there are always those 2 weeks or so where the leaves just fall like rain, and it really doesn't matter how often the groundskeepers get out, there will always be a significant number of leaves on the fairway or just off the fairway. Losing a ball in those leaves is the worst, because you can see it go right in the pile but it doesn't seem to matter how many you swish around, your ball just won't show up. Again, this probably won't affect the pros much with their spotters and perfectly groomed courses, but it would make the game for us lowly amateurs a little fairer. Just make it a free drop one club length from where the ball entered the leaves or in the most likely spot the ball ended up in the leaves. At the very least, if a lost ball was only a distance penalty, not stroke and distance, losing a ball in the leaves in the fairway wouldn't be nearly as painful to the scorecard.

[michaeljames92]

i think that you should be able to pick up your ball and clean it and should be allowed relief for ball lying in divots. also it would be good if you could ground your club in a bunker. ;)

[mikelz]

Wow! I had forgotten some of the others! You are all correct:

Tapping down spike marks. You're only trying to play the same course as the earlier groups. Totally stupid. I think it's there for those who would pound out a canal for their 4 footer. Divot rule. Never made sense to me. It's like a penalty for hitting it in the right spot. Declare fairway divots ground under repair. I don't know what we would put in place for OB. Play it like a lateral hazard?

[Bignose]

I understand the frustration of finding the ball laying in a divot, but it is a question of drawing a solid clear-cut line. When does a divot stop being a divot? This is a really tough question. Obviously a fresh divot is going to be really ugly & ragged. But, after the grass grows a day or two, it gets softer around the edges. Is that still a divot? How about a weak later when a few shoots start coming up? Is that still a divot? How about 3 weeks later when the grass has grown over it, but there is still a depression? Is that still a divot? Where is the line drawn.

The rule makers have basically said that you can't just leave that to the player's judgment... that they think too many people would take advantage of calling any uneven lie or minute depression an old divot and then improving their lie. And I understand that one.

I don't understand the spike mark on the green rule. This is a line drawn at a really odd point -- like was mentioned earlier, you can fix any old ball mark or old hole location or sweep most debris off the green, but fixing a spike mark is a big no-no.

I do understand not having a divot rule, I don't understand the spike mark rule. Does someone know what the reason the spike mark rule is in the books? I am very curious why the line was drawn at spike marks.

[Chilidog]

I think the OB rule should be changed to just distance. I think you should still have to replay the shot, but how many of us have it OB on a par 4, then hit a great drive and realized, crap, I've got to hole this thing just to make a par. Or, I've got to birdie it just to make a bogey. Most of us walk off the green with either double or triple. It is insane to me. Plus, it would speed up play in a lot of tournaments.

[Bignose]

I think the OB rule should be changed to just distance. I think you should still have to replay the shot, but how many of us have it OB on a par 4, then hit a great drive and realized, crap, I've got to hole this thing just to make a par. Or, I've got to birdie it just to make a bogey. Most of us walk off the green with either double or triple. It is insane to me.

How do you figure it would speed up tournaments? You said yourself you'd still have to replay the shot. That means the the procedure today and the procedure with just distance as the penalty would be exactly the same -- just one less penalty stroke. So, I don't see any time savings... unless you can explain it better to me. Thanks.

[iacas]

The absolutely dumbest rule in golf is not being able to repair spike marks on the green period.

I wouldn't change any of the rules. None of them. Including the above.

The above I wouldn't change because: 1) I can't remember any time in the past few years where a spike mark definitively re-routed a putt that I would have otherwise made. We've all got soft spikes now anyway. And on a putt over three to five feet, the odds that a spike mark will help your ball get back on line are as great as they are that it'll push it offline. 2) Make the rule "fix any spike marks" and I bet people suddenly become a whole lot less conscious about how they walk on greens. As it stands now, I try not to scuff my feet at all on the greens, but the few times I do I make darn sure I repair the damage immediately. Others, particularly if this rule was changed, may not feel it's worth the bother. As a corollary to 2, I wonder if people would repair more ball marks (of their own and perhaps after putting out) if you weren't allowed to repair them prior to putting. I think part of the reason some people don't repair them now is that they figure someone else will if it's in their line.

[jc21539]

I'd have to say that getting rid of the stymie completely eliminated a huge competitive aspect of the game. Contrary to popular belief, when you are playing competitive golf, you are not in control of your fate. Other golfers can beat you by shooting a lower score than you, and you can't control what they shoot. But why not??? It's competition, after all.

[Backspin]

I think the OB rule should be changed to just distance. I think you should still have to replay the shot, but how many of us have it OB on a par 4, then hit a great drive and realized, crap, I've got to hole this thing just to make a par. Or, I've got to birdie it just to make a bogey. Most of us walk off the green with either double or triple. It is insane to me. Plus, it would speed up play in a lot of tournaments.

Agreed. You are better off if you miss the ball entirely. You are lying two on your next swing...

[marpr]

Grounding your club in a hazard - two stroke penalty. It's your club...the hazard is part of the environment...so what's the problem?

i agree. dumb rule.