Your observations are spot-on. I couldn't agree more with the journey we need to take, and making the inevitable rudder adjustments as we all tend to drift back to our old swing habits and then blame the system as a failure.

S&T is solid, and if you like seeing (and collecting) the rewards that come from solid shotmaking, it is well worth the muscle memory training.

I read the Golf Digest article -thought I knew Stack and Tilt cause I was hitting it better.

Swing went off base. Bought the DVD set and NOW I now Stack and Tilt - corrected many faults because we tend not see ourselves swing we just don't know what we do wrong.

I finally took the S&T clinic at The Golf Evolution in Erie,PA a few weeks ago.

The guys were fantastic - they corrected SO many small errors from the grip to set-up and then I was hitting well again.

They use a lot of video. You MUST see your positions or you won't get it. A big thanks to Dave and Steve for an incredible clinic day!

If you have to have a friend tape your swing or set up a camera - watch it back frame by frame if possible. Get the FREE V1golf software on line and load your video in there. Keep a record of the progression of your improvement - save your first videos and compare them to later shots. Really helped me a lot if you have a base view to start from.

Also, LOTS of YouTube videos of the S&T pattern from some good coaches. Just do a search.

It's a great swing - but there is some learning and practising - but worth it.

The problem with all of this is that it is people who have no idea what they are talking about because they have not tried it or have not seriously tried it.

Every single thing I have heard negative about the stack and tilt is just the exact opposite of the facts. I highly encourage anyone interested to try it and stick with it, don't just assume you are doing it right because you read the golf digest article. It is not well written and some of the things said in the articles are simple worded wrong for someone trying to learn the swing. buy the DVD's. I bought mine on eBay for $40 you don't have to spend $100. You wont be able to improve by taking one lesson for $40 or spending that much in range balls as much as you will by buying the dvd's or going to a stack and tilt instructor.

Anyway it is retarded when someone says that it worked for a while great and then just stopped working for them. Obviously you changed something that made is stop. This happens all the time even with a traditional swing. The problem is that you don't realize it. An instructor can point out your problem but the golf digest article is not detailed enough to show you what you are doing. The dvd's are very detailed and will help a ton with correcting problems you introduce yourself.

So as you can see I love the stack and tilt. I have never hit balls so good in 8 years of play as I have in the last month using stack and tilt. I started with the article and info I could find online. I was doing wonderful then I lost it. I was not sure what I was doing wrong so I bought the dvd's on eBay and found that I was not really even doing it right. There were several things I was doing absolutely wrong. However from the description from the golf digest article I thought I was doing it right. I then started doing great again and over the weeks I have lost it several times. Each time I simple was changing something in my swing as I got more comfortable with the stack and tilt. I kept introducing elements from a traditional swing. Using the DVD's which are very detailed I have been able to fix each one I introduced and I just keep getting better and better.

So don't give up if you start to plateau you are most likely doing something wrong and just need further instruction. But don't believe any of the crap it is all hogwash.

Is it bad for your back?
-I have a bad back and it is much easier for me.

Is it not for beginners?
-This is ridiculous, the biggest problem beginners have is with their weight shift. They are always swinging back and forth. Eliminate this and they can start hitting the ball right away. I took my dad to the driving range for the first time in his life. I just told him to simply try hitting some balls and see what happens. Of course he was swinging back and forth and topping the ball just like we all did. Then I started introducing the stack and tilt to him in simple steps. First we just eliminated the swing and stayed stacked over the ball. Guess what he started hitting it immediately. How can anyone hit the ball when they are moving around like that. We have all learned to hit it by getting our timing right but that is inconsistent unless your are a pro. I just need to have him start using his body rotation now instead of his arms to get some power and then start working with him on the finer things. But all I can think of is all of the time I wasted over 8 years with the wrong swing. I could have gotten to where I am now in less than a year with stack and tilt.

What about it being harder to come from the inside out?
-More B.S. the stack and tilt really makes you come from the inside so much more than a traditional swing it is not even funny. Most people who are slicers like me, Immediately start hitting them straight or even with a draw! It is much harder to slice the ball with stack and tilt the path is way inside out in comparison.

Anyway off my soap box but I get so tired of hearing crap about this swing. If you want to keep wasting time on your old swing and making very little progress then go ahead otherwise just try the stack and tilt with proper instruction from the dvd's and or a professional lesson and stick with it. You will wish you had done it years ago.

as i took up golf i naturally was inclined toward the S&T swing, but didn't know what it was called- then i bought tigers book, hogans etc and tried to make my swing traditional with bad results-- many good fundamentals i learned but i always naturally went back to weight on left foot-

That's the odd thing, as I see it. The more you look at Stack and Tilt the more you realize that Tiger's swing (under Haney), Ben Hogan's swing, etc. is quite "stack-and-tilty." Almost all of the best players have 90+% or so "stack and tilt" swings with small variations in other parts.

Tiger's old swing, under Butch, well that was probably 70% or so. Sean O'Hair's swing is nearly 100% stack and tilt. Sergio is in the high 90s.

I have been playing golf seriously for 3 years now- self dubbed 14 handicapish-

as i took up golf i naturally was inclined toward the S&T swing, but didn't know what it was called- then i bought tigers book, hogans etc and tried to make my swing traditional with bad results-- many good fundamentals i learned but i always naturally went back to weight on left foot-

now that i have read enough about this i realize this is what i need to study and learn so i can continue to work on a swing that FEELS natural to me. i have always been a good ball striker because of this technique- when i stray from it i suck so bad

thanks to everyone for the comments and information posting

My S&T is OK, but am getting away from nice draws - too many slices.

They have a full day clinic coming up there on Friday Sept. 25.I went to the website and it's $350 for all day (9-5) plus lunch and drinks. 12 max sign-up 4 instructors.

Pretty cool, maybe a trip to the R&R Hall of Fame on the way home.

Anyone else thinking of going?

Tom L.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE ARE TEACHERS AVAILABLE or SCHOOLS TO ATTEND?

http://thegolfevolution.com/ is one of the first, I believe.

That may really help the guys who are having serious shanking and ball flight problems. If you get those hands dropped low, and keep them there when you start the swing, it is so so easy to start that club back with the front knee bending, the back leg straightnening, and the front shoulder almost takes itself back down and around.

I'm a lefty so I use terms like front and back instead of left and right when sharing notes.