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Your opinion of Clone Clubs - Page 8

post #127 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

your grandfather is a pretty smart guy. we all know both types too. the so called "gear junkies" that still play off 25 strokes, with their tour forged irons, FT-Iq driver, 500 dollar putter and custom bag with their name embroidered on it with matching custom towel. here's what i say to them: "congratulations on wasting 5 grand" truth of the matter, i'd rather play the part of a good golfer rather than act the part. I know people with irons from Hireko and GigaGolf (XK Pro and pursuit forged respectively) that will wipe the floor with most golfers on this board. Golf digest also included hireko's acer xk line in their budget irons listing, which i don't think they would do if they were crap, considering most of their revenue is generated by advertisements from the big oem's.

if you want to gripe about something, put down people who play knockoffs. don't be quick to label clones as knockoff because they share some similar design features. knockoff are clubs that blatantly try to pass themselves off as the real things but are made from god only knows what materials and shafts and have no quality control whatsoever. nobody wins with knockoffs
post #128 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Clones can also be related to as "inspired by" designs. They are perfectly ok. Actually many of the "clone" companies will consult directly with the big name OEM's to make sure they are not pushing their limits on their designs. They will then get the "ok" that they are not releasing a product that could potentially infringe on their copyrights.

The good clone companies do not hide the fact that they are clones. They will advertise their products as "ABC Iron - Similiar to the Nike SQ Sumo".. etc.. etc..

Knockoffs do not.. knockoffs blatently mislead the consumer into thinking they are getting the real deal at a steal of a price.

Here is another kicker that should get the OP of this thread all wound up:
Some of the clone heads are manufactured in the SAME foundries as the big name OEMs.

Also, graphite shafts from different makes, brands and models could possibly come from one manufacturer.
Just an example.. lets assume I'm a clone company and I want a graphite shaft to sell from my inventory. I might get some sort of contract with Graffaloy, and purchase "bare" Pro Launch Blue's..
remember.. I'll get these without paint schemes.. etc.. just plain graphite shaft.. thats how they all start originally..
Put my own paint scheme on it.. etc.. sell it for $19.99....
The reality is.. its a PL Blue.. underneath..
post #129 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

I used to have some crap clubs from Sports Authority. The weighting was off. You pay for brand name, but also for Quality Control!!!
post #130 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

I love my clones. Easiest things to hit. I'll probably get some Big Bertha '04s in a year or two, but for now I'm settled with what I have.
post #131 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

whoever started this thread has no business even being in this forum. What an embarassement to say "O, well people who have iron covers lose my respect and same with clone clubs".

Are you kidding me?

How can you say such a thing. You don't judge people by the quality of golf clubs they have? Even if they do use iron covers. I personally would never use them but that doesn't mean I lose respect for people who do ? I myself use Nicklaus Irons, not clones but not a top brand. They are great clubs and I don't wana start a huge skill debate here but I bet i hittem better then you hit your pretty, shinny, overpriced irons. People like you Sparky Redick should not be judging people by what they like to do. Especially when it come down to small things. IT'S GOLF FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD!

Just because you can afford all your fancy equipment doesn't mean everyone else can. I'm 14 and i have to buy all my equipment myself and i have to pay for a portion of my membership. So just because you happen to be lucky dont you be bashing others and "losing respect" for them cause they arent as fortunate as you.

U don't play golf with people judging by the clubs they have. It's if you like spending time with this person.

And you are not someone who I would think most people would find a good reason to play with judging by your opinions on clone golf clubs

So leave others alone and let them do what they want its only a game!!!!!

GOLF ELITISTS like yourself are a joke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #132 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Originally Posted by Aaronsrix17 View Post
whoever started this thread has no business even being in this forum. What an embarassement to say "O, well people who have iron covers lose my respect and same with clone clubs".

Are you kidding me?

How can you say such a thing. You don't judge people by the quality of golf clubs they have? Even if they do use iron covers. I personally would never use them but that doesn't mean I lose respect for people who do ? I myself use Nicklaus Irons, not clones but not a top brand. They are great clubs and I don't wana start a huge skill debate here but I bet i hittem better then you hit your pretty, shinny, overpriced irons. People like you Sparky Redick should not be judging people by what they like to do. Especially when it come down to small things. IT'S GOLF FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD!

Just because you can afford all your fancy equipment doesn't mean everyone else can. I'm 14 and i have to buy all my equipment myself and i have to pay for a portion of my membership. So just because you happen to be lucky dont you be bashing others and "losing respect" for them cause they arent as fortunate as you.

U don't play golf with people judging by the clubs they have. It's if you like spending time with this person.

And you are not someone who I would think most people would find a good reason to play with judging by your opinions on clone golf clubs

So leave others alone and let them do what they want its only a game!!!!!

GOLF ELITISTS like yourself are a joke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself!!

Your mamma and dad done a good job raising a down to earth son with lots of truth, humility and conviction. Good to hear.
post #133 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

When i was getting back into golf (last year) i was playing the local par 3 course. This gentleman probably in his early 20's looked the biggest nerd ive ever seen. Everything he wore and played with matched. It was erie. So im thinking he is going to be a great golfer.

Wrong. He totally stunk up the par 3 course. He took forever and a day to line up each shot. It got annoying because 8/10 times he put the ball in the trees. I have no problem playing with someone that bad. On occasion i do badly. But! He has iron covers. And he had to put them on take them off which made him that much more slower. He had a pull cart (that matched everything he had on) so i see no need for the iron covers.

Because of that one experience a cover shall never hide my irons.

I walk with a pullcart. Im lazy, so what.
post #134 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

haha, you may be above calling him out on how you can probably hit the ball further than him...but i'm not.

btw, nicklaus makes some solid irons, especially some of their forged irons. i feel like they always get a bad rap because of some of the lower end boxed sets they sell under the golden bear brand name. truth be told, those really aren't even that bad for a pure beginner who only plays once or twice a year....but that is a discussion for another place and time. wilson i feel is pretty much in the same boat.

back to the issue of clones...there are plenty of good component companies out there that put out research and development efforts. they don't have to technologies and the money to come out with highly innovative equipment like the taylormades and callaways and nikes, so they use their resources instead to study the innovations in the from equipment from those companies and incorporate them into their products to equal the performance, and many times they succeed. most of the overhead for big oems is not r and d though, it is advertising, sponsorships and employment. companies like taylormade and callaway have thousands of employees...most of them in accounting and pr type jobs that have nothing to do with making golf clubs. add all the millions of dollars they have to spend on magazine ads, tv spots, pro players to wear a hat with their name on it, and people to come up with what their logos look like and what colors their headcovers should be, they almost have to charge the prices they do in order to turn a profit. clone makers on the other hand are small business...maybe just a handful of employees, don't have to pay players, dont do mass media advertising, and don't have huge corporate offices to power...they don't have to charge as much to take in a proportionate profit. end of the day, the material cost to build a club from raw materials for both the oem and the component maker is the same....the oem just has a lot more mouths to feed so they have to charge more.

if anyone has a problem with clones...then you should have problems drinking pepsi...cause after all coke came out first
post #135 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

oh yeah, i own irons cover....i keep my irons covered when they are in the car...take them off before i hit the course though since they are massive pain in the butt and bound to lose one somewhere. clubs, no matter what they cost are an investment and i don't want too much bag chatter when they are in teh trunk and bouncing around...i've got a hatchback so i can hear them very clearly when they are back there
post #136 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

a friend of mine told me "it's not the arrow, it's the indian!". pretty much, whatever works to get the job done.
post #137 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

I have had only one experience with clone clubs. A few years back I had a set of X-14 clones I bought from GigaGolf. They performed well and I had no complaints in that respect. However two of them had shafts break at the point where the shaft is inserted into the club head. In assembly the graphite shaft had been gouged when the shaft was roughed to apply the epoxy creating a stress point that eventually caused the failure (about a year after purchase). I replaced the shafts and used the clubs for several years after. In fact my Grandson is using them now.
post #138 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Just found this forum and decided to chime in on this subject. I just recently started getting into golf (Been to the driving range 5-6 times, played 9 holes at a course and did chip and put a few times) and have really been enjoying it. I am a broke college student and do not have a lot of money to spend on clubs so I decided to check out some clones. I decided on the Ping G10 clones the ZR1's from Pinemeadowgolf.com. I was able to get a driver, putter, 3 and 4 hybrid and 5-SW irons for $300, I can send them back within 30 days if I do not like them and I get a year warranty. I looked on ebay and craigslist and did not find the Ping G10's for a comparable price. I think they will be good to get started with and will be better then a $300 set I could get anywhere else.
post #139 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Originally Posted by tymac View Post
I'd distinguish between "clone" and "knock-off" clubs. I know the terms are sometimes used interchangeably but to me "knock-off" is counterfeit, attempting to deceive and illegal while "clone" is a copy. I think I see the original poster's point about there being something sad about seeing a person trying to impress without having the real goods. I have painful adolescent memories of my mother forcing me to wear supermarket brand blue jeans when all the cool kids had Levi 501s ... but I digress.
Cloning happens in most industries - look at the PC market - everyone cloned IBM and the SUV market; it's hard to tell your BMW from your Mazda and so on.
I believe there are some really high quality clone clubs that allow out there as well loads of really poor ones.
And when it comes to embarrassment on the golf course, I'd say there's not much that beats the hyper-equiped golfer that moves the turf further than the ball.
Thank you! This is the best post on this thread...

First, clones are not the same as knock-offs and they do not "trick buyers" into buying them. These aren't fake clubs, they just use similar technology and are made to look somewhat stylish. Many of their components are made in the same places as the big brand clubs.

Second, I'll 100% agree with the sentiment that I have much more respect for golfers that are starting out in the game with a set of clone clubs, than those that have a mint bag of $2,000 name brand clubs and are hacking away at the course, never having taken a lesson and acting like they own the place just because they have the money to buy new name-brand gear. As the poster above said, not all of us beginners have the money for name-brand clubs. Yes, you can say some of us may not have the same golf knowledge (yet), but do you really expect someone who is JUST STARTING out at golf to be able to go online on eBay and know what the heck he or she is doing? You expect them to put together a bag of used clubs without knowing anything about the game and not to mention technology or what works for them?

Third, I find it odd that some people are so openly proud of their prejudice... I thought most parents raised their kids these days trying to ingrain principles such as "don't judge a book by it's cover". As more vetaran golfers, instead of judging someone and looking down at them for using a certain club or having a certain swing, shouldn't you recall being in their shoes and take the time to help them? Or at least admire them for trying and wanting to learn a game that we all enjoy? When I see someone on the ski hill standing on a snowboard for the first time (be it a $700 Burton or a peice of tree bark), I smile. I LOVE seeing new people trying to learn a sport, regardless of whether they know anything about equipment or not... And I don't judge them as "not being fun to play with" because they are new to the game. I've had my funnest days on the hill, golf course, soccer field, hockey rink, tennis court, with people just starting out.

Anyway, some really great replies from people here giving me hope in the overall golf community I've just joined! Others... not so much... I realize the sport/game may be kind of snobby being that it is expensive and what not, but common, do some of you really have to try so hard and be so proud to be materiallistic, snobbish, and prejudicial? I'm very surprised at the ages too...

P.S. I'm a 23 year-old male in top shape and I don't see ANYTHING wrong with using a cart... If it's more enjoyable for someone not to carry their bag, then that's great! Isn't that what golf (and any sport) is about at the end of the day? Having fun? As for head covers... I understand pros may not use them, but pros usually don't care since they don't pay for their own clubs or have to resell them to save money. Some of us do, and maybe not having scratches on the clubs will get us those few extra bucks!

Cheers,
post #140 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Nice find darkhunter139........I do not play knock offs, but I do play clubs that are not in the mainstream.....I grew up playing Powerbilt in the 60's.....when they were a popular club....I played them for 20 years, then upgraded to a set of Nicklaus Muirfield blades....played them for 20 years(Handicap was 10)......then I shattered my left wrist and took 4 surgeries over 2 years to repair....went with Nicklaus CGX as they had the best shock absorbing steel shaft.....then went to Adams A2OS for the offset & graphite shaft....then went to Callaway Fusions w/graphite shaft, again shock absorbing clubs to protect my left wrist from further injury.....Now I am back with Powerbilt AFO irons as they have the same shock absorbing qualities that the fusions have....BUT....as I only have an 87 mph swing speed, I could get more distance from the thinner clubface supported by nitrogen...as most clubs are designed for 110 mph swing speeds...My Handicap has plummeted from 21 in March to 14 in June and will be lower at the end of July with a couple rounds in the 70's.

It's not necessarily the popular brand that makes the best clubs.....but how you use them......two of our best Saturday league golfers also play off brands.....Acer....don't think they are clones....but whatever club you choose remember that it is you that has to feel comfortable with them....not the other guy.

Good luck with your ZR1's.
post #141 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Thanks, I will post back and let you guys know what I think of them.
post #142 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

The problem with clones is determining quality control. I played with a set of Ping Eye-2 clones from 1994 to 2009. The Pro Tour company made the heads, at the time component clubs were becoming popular - you picked the heads, shafts, lie angle and grips, and the clubsmith put them together for you.

Pro Tour had a reputation for very durable clubheads.

Originally Posted by Ruari View Post
...
In the golf world it is seen as an unfair advantage if you are pulling your clubs while others are carrying their own. If you have a legitimate health reason for a pull cart, or are over the age of 45 you will typically not get the usual pull cart scorn.
If you want to pull a cart rather than carrying clubs, big deal. The carry guys are not forced to carry against their will. Not sure what golf world you play in.
post #143 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

Originally Posted by Ruari View Post
In the golf world it is seen as an unfair advantage if you are pulling your clubs while others are carrying their own. If you have a legitimate health reason for a pull cart, or are over the age of 45 you will typically not get the usual pull cart scorn.

My Grandson is 12 yrs old and their middle school golf team has a requirement that they all have pull carts (trolleys).....they play 9 hole competitions versus other schools in the Fall. Nobody thinks any less of them for using pull carts. Actually, I think it is a terrific idea for juniors and ameteurs to use pull carts.....less chance of a shoulder injury....and it puts all of them on an equal basis.
post #144 of 183

Re: Your opinion of Clone Clubs

The OP reminds me of that guy at the golf (fill in the blank) that judges people on how they look rather than how they play..which sadly a lot of golfers are. Also a reason people don't get into golf. Play and be happy with what you have. Sorry to chime in so late but I just finshed my lessons and ready to get at it.
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